Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Discussion of the Cash portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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jalanlong
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by jalanlong » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:32 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:56 am
Fund families are keeping the money markets positive by waiving expenses ....you may be better off in them then say something like bil
I noticed that my cash ETF GBILL hasn’t paid interest all year since the .09% expense ratio outweighs treasury bill returns at the moment. SHV hasn’t paid anything out this year either.
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mathjak107
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:49 pm

My fdlxx has been paying under a buck on 6 figures in cash .

But at least the fund families seem to be waiving the expenses while etfs are not
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jhogue
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by jhogue » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 pm

The HBPP prescribes a Treasury money market fund for safety and liquidity, not yield. Chasing yield in cash is not necessary and can potentially lead to problems with safety and liquidity at the moment that you can least afford it.

BTW, the nominal yield of a 1 year Treasury zero stands at -0.01% today. Real yields of STTs have been negative for some time now. I note, in passing, that low Treasury yields have not stopped Warrant Buffet from piling up his stash of Treasurys estimated at more than $100 billion. He does not hold high-yield bonds, muni bonds, bank-sponsored repos, or currency swaps. Do you wonder why that is?
Last edited by jhogue on Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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mathjak107
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:04 pm

They both are treasuries only one is loosing money in the etf as no expenses seem to be waived
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I Shrugged
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:29 pm

jhogue wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 pm
The HBPP prescribes a Treasury money market fund for safety and liquidity, not yield. Chasing yield in cash is not necessary and can potentially lead to problems with safety and liquidity at the moment that you can least afford it.

BTW, the nominal yield of a 1 year Treasury zero stands at -0.01% today. Real yields of STTs have been negative for some time now. I note, in passing, that low Treasury yields have not stopped Warrant Buffet from piling up his stash of Treasurys estimated at more than $100 billion. He does not hold high-yield bonds, muni bonds, bank-sponsored repos, or currency swaps. Do you wonder why that is?
I do.
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jhogue
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by jhogue » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:32 pm

I think it is quite simple: Buffett is more concerned with the return of his money than he is with the return on his money. In other words, safety and liquidity must come before yield.
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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mathjak107
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:56 pm

jhogue wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:32 pm
I think it is quite simple: Buffett is more concerned with the return of his money than he is with the return on his money. In other words, safety and liquidity must come before yield.
He made so many poor buys and subsequent sales you have to wonder if that is true...he has underperformed a simple S&P fund for 15 years which gas no individual company risk either
whatchamacallit
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:56 pm

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... data=yield



1, 2 and 3 month all .01 last two days. Closer and closer to 0.
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by Don » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:50 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:56 pm
jhogue wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:32 pm
I think it is quite simple: Buffett is more concerned with the return of his money than he is with the return on his money. In other words, safety and liquidity must come before yield.
He made so many poor buys and subsequent sales you have to wonder if that is true...he has underperformed a simple S&P fund for 15 years which gas no individual company risk either
He's been doing well recently and overperforming
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mathjak107
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Re: Negative 1 and 3 Month Treasury Rates

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:44 am

It only took him 15 years to get lucky again
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