Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Discussion of the Bond portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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Mark Leavy
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Re: Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:20 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:27 am

STILL doing my research and wanting as many questions answered prior to implementing...

I received these quotes from my bank...

"Extra small 3”x5”24” (3” high, 5” wide and 24” long) with an annual box rental fee of $30

Small 3”x10”24” (3” high, 10” wide and 24” long) with an annual box rental fee of $60"

How many ounces of gold would I be able to put in each of the two boxes? I assume twice as many in the second as the first?
300 ounces fits easily in the extra small box.
You will need to start eating meat before you can fill the larger box and lift it over your head.

Which is about as likely as you ever actually implementing a Permanent Portfolio.
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Re: Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Post by vnatale » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:10 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:20 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:27 am


STILL doing my research and wanting as many questions answered prior to implementing...

I received these quotes from my bank...

"Extra small 3”x5”24” (3” high, 5” wide and 24” long) with an annual box rental fee of $30

Small 3”x10”24” (3” high, 10” wide and 24” long) with an annual box rental fee of $60"

How many ounces of gold would I be able to put in each of the two boxes? I assume twice as many in the second as the first?


300 ounces fits easily in the extra small box.
You will need to start eating meat before you can fill the larger box and lift it over your head.

Which is about as likely as you ever actually implementing a Permanent Portfolio.


Thanks. I now seem to have estimated ranges of 300 to 500 coins fitting in the small. Calculating the weight of 400 came out to 25 pounds.

By the way even at my age (70) and weight (145 lb) I am able to dead lift 190 lb and press 75 lbs over my head. So seems I could lift that larger box of 37.5 lbs (using your 300 amount) over my head. I do use 35 pound plates for some of my barbell exercises.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Post by vnatale » Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:54 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:36 pm

I think you’re right, but things have changed since then anyway. Craig mentions Vanguard’s “Bond Desk” and I don’t think they even use the term anymore. You used to have to call to order bonds, hence the desk.

There’s some good info on page 8, beginning with Krieg’s post.

I would post a tutorial if i thought I could cover everything that a new buyer of bonds would like to do.
I only know how to do what I do, which doesn’t require a tutorial because it is so limited. (For example, I almost always use the auctions, not the secondary market).
I have always just clicked my way through it. It was easy.


Why is that the case for you?

Today I read in my forum notes (from probably somewhere in this topic) someone making the case the of where buying on the secondary market was more advantageous than at auction.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Post by vnatale » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:19 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:30 am

Vinny I just took some screenshots, since I'm not sure if you've tried it before... In your brokerage, click on Buy and Sell, then Trade Bonds or CDs

v1.png

Now, here it looks like Vanguard has changed it, because the quick search here used to go out to 30 years, not just 10:

v2.png

But you can just click on Treasuries from that top menu:

v3.png

v5.png
v4.png

Click the buy button, then say how many you want, and buy them. You can buy and sell less than the "min qty" but you won't get the advertised price/yield.


Many thanks for this. I finally reached a point in my process wherein I could review this in detail. I have some questions on your final comments. I attempted to answer them on my own but after I just logged into my Vanguard account it would not let me go beyond a certain point due to the markets not currently being open.

My questions are in regards to the first two columns - "Qty." and "Min qyt." I assume the that the first one is in $$? $5,000? But I cannot tell what the "250's" represent. Not $250? Not 250 bonds, as that would be $250,000 worth (if $1,000 each or $1,250,000 if in blocks of $5,000). But maybe they are. Not at all clear to me.

If you don't get the advertised price / yield for not buying or selling the minimum what do you get? How close is it to the advertised?
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Re: Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:45 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:54 pm
dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:36 pm
I think you’re right, but things have changed since then anyway. Craig mentions Vanguard’s “Bond Desk” and I don’t think they even use the term anymore. You used to have to call to order bonds, hence the desk.

There’s some good info on page 8, beginning with Krieg’s post.

I would post a tutorial if i thought I could cover everything that a new buyer of bonds would like to do.
I only know how to do what I do, which doesn’t require a tutorial because it is so limited. (For example, I almost always use the auctions, not the secondary market).
I have always just clicked my way through it. It was easy.
Why is that the case for you?

Today I read in my forum notes (from probably somewhere in this topic) someone making the case the of where buying on the secondary market was more advantageous than at auction.
Once when this came up, somebody wrote that some people just like that new bond smell. O0 I think that’s as good a reason as any. I’ve heard the opposite of what you’ve heard, i.e. that the auction gives a slight advantage, but that’s not why I used the auction.

(Meanwhile, outside, the pp, I used the secondary market for ten-year notes. I used the auction for notes with a 2031 maturity, but later I kept sporadically collecting more on the secondary market. I just kept seaching for the CUSIP of what I already owned, or clicking BUY next to that holding in Vanguard’s Balances and Holdings view).
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