Stock scream room

Discussion of the Stock portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
Smith1776
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2316
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:37 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:25 pm
I ❤️ stocks.
Me too! :D

#MeToo
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process." - Alan Greenspan, 1966
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:28 pm

Image

I've been rebalancing stocks down on this way up. Going against all the rules, but this run seems really out of whack.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:14 pm

I love stock, I've been investing in quite a bit recently. One day I hope to be a bouillonaire.
"You haven't, I suppose, ever mixed with politicians at close quarters. They're awful. I think some of these must have been the dregs anyhow, but I've discovered, what previously I didn't believe possible, that politicians behave in private life and say exactly the same things as they do in public. Their stupidity is inhuman.
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
buddtholomew
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by buddtholomew » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:02 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:14 pm
I love stock, I've been investing in quite a bit recently. One day I hope to be a bouillonaire.
Chicken :)
Kbg
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1951
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Kbg » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:09 pm

buddtholomew wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:02 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:14 pm
I love stock, I've been investing in quite a bit recently. One day I hope to be a bouillonaire.
Chicken :)
Brings a whole new spin to "bull" market. :)
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 11782
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:07 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:14 pm
I love stock, I've been investing in quite a bit recently. One day I hope to be a bouillonaire.
Gold. Absolute gold. O0

I sold a lot of indy positions yesterday, not knowing if stocks are going to go up for another ten years.
On my way down to 50% stocks (vp + pp), I’m hoping to capture some of the irrational exuberance.
traveling...
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4465
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by sophie » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:25 am

Guess I should keep an eye on the allocations if you guys are all rebalancing. I'm within a couple percentage points of bonds crossing the low end of the band.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 11782
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:34 am

dualstow wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:07 am
...
I sold a lot of indy positions yesterday, not knowing if stocks are going to go up for another ten years.
On my way down to 50% stocks (vp + pp), I’m hoping to capture some of the irrational exuberance.
Big drop today. Ok, now my sale doesn't feel so bad.
traveling...
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:03 pm

A little lower today, but still insane

Image
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am

I am seriously considering another strategic allocation change to lower exposure to stocks (currently 31% for me). On Aug 5th, I dropped from 35% to 31%.

I still have no idea what's driving the S&P 10% up for the year when Covid just keeps on stretching out longer and longer. Sure, there are some small # of companies benefitting, but I otherwise see major destruction happening or going to happen, like commercial real estate.

Am I missing something?
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 6014
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by vnatale » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:04 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am
I am seriously considering another strategic allocation change to lower exposure to stocks (currently 31% for me). On Aug 5th, I dropped from 35% to 31%.

I still have no idea what's driving the S&P 10% up for the year when Covid just keeps on stretching out longer and longer. Sure, there are some small # of companies benefitting, but I otherwise see major destruction happening or going to happen, like commercial real estate.

Am I missing something?
The market can be generally irrational for long periods of time? Being far too reactive in one direction or the other?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:41 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:04 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am
I am seriously considering another strategic allocation change to lower exposure to stocks (currently 31% for me). On Aug 5th, I dropped from 35% to 31%.

I still have no idea what's driving the S&P 10% up for the year when Covid just keeps on stretching out longer and longer. Sure, there are some small # of companies benefitting, but I otherwise see major destruction happening or going to happen, like commercial real estate.

Am I missing something?
The market can be generally irrational for long periods of time? Being far too reactive in one direction or the other?

Vinny
Quite possibly, Vinny.

But either way, I see the election being an "event" that will cause the market to roll over regardless of the winner. It's either going to be an oh shit, Biden is president and he's going to lock us down or oh shit, Trump is president and people are going to keep dying.

Either way, not good. And then a vaccine comes out, and people either don't take it, don't want to be first in line, or realize it's only 50% effective and are disappointed.
User avatar
Vil
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:16 am

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Vil » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:58 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 am

But either way, I see the election being an "event" that will cause the market to roll over regardless of the winner. It's either going to be an oh shit, Biden is president and he's going to lock us down or oh shit, Trump is president and people are going to keep dying.
Makes sense :D And indeed, I also plan to get some juice of some of my stock allocations. Today, it seems the S&P run is considerably higher than yesterday, and even though the trading day has not yet ended it would be based on considerably lower volume than yesterday. So, for me it appears there is a sort of discrepancy between price move and volume... All time highs are not that far away too .. IMHO a near term correction is inevitable, but let's see.

In any case (Trump or Biden) I'll be extremely happy when that's over, as this forum looks more and more as tribune for politic discussions, rather than a PP discussion forum. I recognize that PP itself might be a boring one, but still ...
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:40 pm

I'm with you, Corto, it's perplexing. I'm looking at nudging my overall stock % down about a bit as well. Where are our resident finance nerds when we need em?
"You haven't, I suppose, ever mixed with politicians at close quarters. They're awful. I think some of these must have been the dregs anyhow, but I've discovered, what previously I didn't believe possible, that politicians behave in private life and say exactly the same things as they do in public. Their stupidity is inhuman.
- John Maynard Keynes
pmward
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1731
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by pmward » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:26 pm

It's all about stimulus. If congress can pull their heads out of their collective arses and can actually get a stimulus deal through at some point, markets will continue to go up to dizzying heights. If they fail to do so, stocks will fall until they eventually force their hands similar to how they forced Powells hand to flip dovish in Q4 2018. Back in March after a 30% drop in the S&P congress was willing to do whatever it took in the form of stimulus. This same scenario will play out again if they continue to do nothing. The market will force their hands if they have to. Either way, the stimulus will inevitably come and the market will go up to substantial new all-time highs afterward just like it did following Q4 2018, imo. It may be a bumpy road though, at this point in the cycle volatility should be assumed to continue until the secular bull market finally ends.

The economy has nothing to do with stock prices these days. The only thing the election matters for is how much stimulus and how fast it will come. I actually think a Biden win will be better for stocks than a Trump win because of this, especially if the senate also flips blue, because then the real spending will begin, and in turn the true 1998-2000 like melt-up to end the bull market from the 2009 lows can truly begin in earnest. When we inevitably get fiscal stimulus fully on board permanently like we got monetary stimulus fully on board permanently coming out of the 08 crisis, there will be nothing stopping the market from going to 5,000+ before the bull market finally tops and starts the next true secular bear market. There is a lot of risks at this point, but there is also a lot of potential rewards. Selling stock now could look very silly in a year or two. Fiscal is necessary to keep the economy afloat at this point, and as such the fiscal will come, it's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when. At least this is another angle worth considering before actively selling stocks on the assumption that they have to go down in the near to mid term. Remember Corto we had a similar discussion in this thread back in March that you can scroll back to, where I said they would do whatever it took to have the market back at all time highs by the election, and you didn't see how it was possible then either. So maybe once again this other angle is one worth looking at and at least considering before selling stocks. Eventually, sure every bull market dies some day, but if the whole country being under Corona lockdown couldn't kill the bull, it means the bull is still strong enough to keep going, and that in turn means the bull has a much higher destination in mind before it's willing to give up the ghost. That's my current take on things at least.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:05 pm

pmward wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:26 pm
It's all about stimulus. If congress can pull their heads out of their collective arses and can actually get a stimulus deal through at some point, markets will continue to go up to dizzying heights. If they fail to do so, stocks will fall until they eventually force their hands similar to how they forced Powells hand to flip dovish in Q4 2018. Back in March after a 30% drop in the S&P congress was willing to do whatever it took in the form of stimulus. This same scenario will play out again if they continue to do nothing. The market will force their hands if they have to. Either way, the stimulus will inevitably come and the market will go up to substantial new all-time highs afterward just like it did following Q4 2018, imo. It may be a bumpy road though, at this point in the cycle volatility should be assumed to continue until the secular bull market finally ends.

The economy has nothing to do with stock prices these days. The only thing the election matters for is how much stimulus and how fast it will come. I actually think a Biden win will be better for stocks than a Trump win because of this, especially if the senate also flips blue, because then the real spending will begin, and in turn the true 1998-2000 like melt-up to end the bull market from the 2009 lows can truly begin in earnest. When we inevitably get fiscal stimulus fully on board permanently like we got monetary stimulus fully on board permanently coming out of the 08 crisis, there will be nothing stopping the market from going to 5,000+ before the bull market finally tops and starts the next true secular bear market. There is a lot of risks at this point, but there is also a lot of potential rewards. Selling stock now could look very silly in a year or two. Fiscal is necessary to keep the economy afloat at this point, and as such the fiscal will come, it's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when. At least this is another angle worth considering before actively selling stocks on the assumption that they have to go down in the near to mid term. Remember Corto we had a similar discussion in this thread back in March that you can scroll back to, where I said they would do whatever it took to have the market back at all time highs by the election, and you didn't see how it was possible then either. So maybe once again this other angle is one worth looking at and at least considering before selling stocks. Eventually, sure every bull market dies some day, but if the whole country being under Corona lockdown couldn't kill the bull, it means the bull is still strong enough to keep going, and that in turn means the bull has a much higher destination in mind before it's willing to give up the ghost. That's my current take on things at least.
Thanks. I did drop my overall stock allocation from 31% to 30%. No major change, just something that makes me feel a little better. I'd rather nibble some gains off on the way up, if that's the case.
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3808
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:40 pm

That happens at times ...for the year 2008 gold was up and the miners got hammered....miners are stocks first and a play on gold second .

They are subject to all the things stocks are ...earnings ,revenue , strikes , workers being healthy and able to work , mgmt , political issues ,etc ....miners are not the same as gold despite having their profits rise and fall with the price
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3677
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:28 am

As Cullen sees it:
Now, this is really important to understand when you’re trying to understand why the stock market has reacted and also why the coming couple of years could actually be very good for the economy. In short, the stock market is front-running the probability of a vaccine. And in the case of a vaccine life essentially returns to some semblance of normalcy reflecting where we were in 2019. So, let’s say we get a vaccine in mid-2021. In that case the economy will begin to aggressively soak up all that excess labor to meet all that pent up demand. You’ll go to dinner more, movies more, take two vacations next year. Etc. As that pent up demand soaks the economy in 2021/2022 the labor market snaps back aggressively and by the end of 2022 the economy looks more or less like it did in 2019. The end result will be this weird “recession” that wasn’t really a cyclical recession at all. Instead, it will look more like a continuation of the 2019 expansion with 2-3 year pause within it. link
"You haven't, I suppose, ever mixed with politicians at close quarters. They're awful. I think some of these must have been the dregs anyhow, but I've discovered, what previously I didn't believe possible, that politicians behave in private life and say exactly the same things as they do in public. Their stupidity is inhuman.
- John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 11782
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:06 am

Market is set to surge 5% — that’s more than 1400 points for the Dow — on Pfizer’s 90% effective vaccine.
traveling...
pmward
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1731
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by pmward » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:46 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:06 am
Market is set to surge 5% — that’s more than 1400 points for the Dow — on Pfizer’s 90% effective vaccine.
Yeah I was pretty shocked to wake up and see that myself, even though when I went to bed they were already up ~2%. And with volatility continuing to collapse there is still room for much more upside as lower volatility triggers systematic flows into stocks via large hedge fund strategies like risk parity, vol-targeting, and the like.
User avatar
Tyler
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2003
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Tyler » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:59 am

If you think stocks are exciting today, take a look at small cap value. 8)
User avatar
Smith1776
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2316
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:55 am

Indeed! My value fund has really popped!
F46C3C5D-BAB8-4F9E-AD24-95EB043BFEDE.png
F46C3C5D-BAB8-4F9E-AD24-95EB043BFEDE.png (505.98 KiB) Viewed 1154 times
"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process." - Alan Greenspan, 1966
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4617
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by doodle » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:02 pm

This market is getting insane. Cramer is attributing it to younger inexperienced investors who have only seen stock gains for the last decade. To them the party can go on forever. I'm starting to slowly divest. We hitting some pretty lofty numbers here. Id be surprised if we see 4k on the SP before we see 3k or less. Anyone else getting that feeling?
User avatar
buddtholomew
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 4:16 pm

Re: Stock scream room

Post by buddtholomew » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 pm

I don’t disagree but certain areas of the market are either still -ve YTD or only slightly positive <+5%.
REITs fall into the first camp and SCV in the latter.

I’ve lightened up on SPY and kept investing in SC, SCV and REITs.
Post Reply