Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Discussion of the Stock portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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Indices
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Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Indices » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:53 pm

I'd like to hear ideas or what you've gone with...
Last edited by Indices on Thu May 13, 2010 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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craigr
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of PP?

Post by craigr » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:01 pm

Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTI) or iShares Russell 3000 (IWV). For International I have used the iShares EAFE index (EFA) or Vanguard's all world ex-US ETF (VEU).
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of PP?

Post by MediumTex » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:18 pm

VTSMX for domestic equities and VGTSX for international exposure.  My allocation is 85%/15%.

There are plenty of good low cost index funds out there.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of PP?

Post by craigr » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:38 pm

MediumTex wrote:There are plenty of good low cost index funds out there.
Agreed. Any fund that tracks a broad-based stock index like Total Stock Market or S&P 500 with low fees is a good choice. If someone wants international then there are Total International Funds, EAFE index or the FTSE Ex-US index now. Generally these types of funds should have expense ratios less than about 0.30% a year to be considered. I've seen some S&P 500 index funds with outrageous fees of 1% or more and these should be avoided if at all possible. Any actively managed fund should also be avoided.

Vanguard, iShares, Fidelity Spartan, etc. Most big fund/ETF providers will have these low cost index options.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:34 pm

I went a different way then most. I went with VXF which is a mid-small cap ETF. It is essentially all the stocks minus the S&P 500. I think that gets me a better cover of the US economy without being concentrated in a handful of top stocks.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:53 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:34 pm

I went a different way then most. I went with VXF which is a mid-small cap ETF. It is essentially all the stocks minus the S&P 500. I think that gets me a better cover of the US economy without being concentrated in a handful of top stocks.


I think here you may have set the record for resurrecting a topic from nearly 11 years ago??!!
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:14 pm

Oh my! I thought that showed up in my recent feed and I didn’t even look at the dates on it!!
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by jalanlong » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:39 pm

Speaking of resurrecting this thread, is everyone here still using VTI or a Total Stock Market fund for the stock portion of their portfolio? I hate that almost 25% of it is in the top 10 stocks. That sort of concentration worries me. Historically an even mix of large cap, mid cap and small cap would beat the total mkt index which itself is about 75% large cap. However, that has not held true since about 2006. Since that time it has been better just to hold the S&P 500. I am not sure if that is a permanent sea change or not.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by jswinner » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:08 pm

I altered the mix with the addition of VIG to the portion
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:12 pm

I’m holding the SP500.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Kbg » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:27 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:39 pm
Speaking of resurrecting this thread, is everyone here still using VTI or a Total Stock Market fund for the stock portion of their portfolio? I hate that almost 25% of it is in the top 10 stocks. That sort of concentration worries me. Historically an even mix of large cap, mid cap and small cap would beat the total mkt index which itself is about 75% large cap. However, that has not held true since about 2006. Since that time it has been better just to hold the S&P 500. I am not sure if that is a permanent sea change or not.
Or buy an equal weighted ETF(s). One thing to get clear on though...by definition "the market" is cap weighted...so realize you are no longer holding "the market" and are now making an active bet.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:16 am

I'm still using Total US.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by jhogue » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:17 am

I am (somewhat) surprised that no one has mentioned FZROX (Fidelity ZERO Total Market Index Fund).

1. FZROX is a newer and smaller fund that has pioneered my favorite expense ratio of 0.00%. Over time, expense really does matter. I am also doing Roth conversions, which should lower taxes in the long run.

2. I am not presently using an international fund, though I did in the past. I have been persuaded by the argument in a past thread on the forum that holding gold covers foreign exchange rate risk associated with international. Beyond that, I can't think of a foreign capital market that I like better than the USA.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:16 pm

jhogue wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:17 am
I am (somewhat) surprised that no one has mentioned FZROX (Fidelity ZERO Total Market Index Fund).

1. FZROX is a newer and smaller fund that has pioneered my favorite expense ratio of 0.00%. Over time, expense really does matter. I am also doing Roth conversions, which should lower taxes in the long run.
I use this, but I use it in an HSA account where I intend to let it ride until I'm 65 (barring any tax law changes) before withdrawing any.
And as for him who lacks the courage to defend even his own soul: Let him not brag of his progressive views, boast of his status as an academician or a recognized artist, a distinguished citizen or general. Let him say to himself plainly: I am cattle, I am a coward, I seek only warmth and to eat my fill.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:03 pm

VEQT is the best option for Canadians.
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by Vil » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:11 pm

UBUJ - MSCI USA hedged to EUR is worth consideration for residents of the old continent
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Re: Best fund/ETF for equities portion of Permanent Portfolio?

Post by vincent_c » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:47 pm

It's interesting there isn't a consensus on what is best.

I'm sure it's probably been answered somewhere on these boards but is there a consensus on whether a total market fund is better, tech/growth stocks, factors, or large cap value?

My personal take is that the most liquid investment is the S&P500. It's more convenient to have SPY in case you want to use options (to hedge a position quickly or split up the position into a synthetic position for tax purposes or flexibility) because it's easier to calculate contracts to shares. I think that the MER is probably a distraction because it's so low anyway for all these funds.

One should also consider the trading hours of these funds.

Liquidity has tangible benefits, but if one was purely focused on returns I can see tilting one way or another or even a basket of individual growth stocks to be better but since the OP was about funds/ETF we can focus on that. If we take away potentially what can be considered a personal preference, I think at least there are objective reasons why some of the funds that have been suggested are not good options.
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