Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Discussion of the Stock portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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sophie
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by sophie » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:53 am

Be careful with Ally Invest.

They have fees on top of the commissions - and the website may not inform you of the fees until after you've bought the security (this happened to me). I presume the fees are still intact.

Also, if you buy a bond on Ally you can't sell it, nor is there any info on its current value (only face value). Based on the one phone call I made, you can't call them to sell it either. It's possible I just got someone who didn't know what they were doing, but I didn't want to waste time finding out. I just let the bond mature, moved my money out and that was that.

To add insult to injury, the Ally Invest tax forms are not bundled in with those from Ally Bank proper. And they arrived very late (mid to late March). Bit of an issue for my file-early-to-head-off-tax-scammers plan.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:41 pm

The "Get Smart" inspired TD Ameritrade commercial is very funny... but why? They got bought!
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:35 pm

Good to know, Sophie!
ochotona wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:41 pm
The "Get Smart" inspired TD Ameritrade commercial is very funny... but why? They got bought!
Love that ad.
Feels like the end of the everything rally.
In Britain they have made burglary a safe occupation. It's like OSHA for burglars.
- Thomas Sowell on gun control
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:46 pm

New trading problems... the drama continues.


Please escalate this to a trading manager. I am thinking about moving my accounts.

Back in 2019 timeframe, I started experimenting with MOC orders (Market On Close) on Street Smart Edge as a way to avoid Schwab selling my order flow to Citadel and others. That way I could buy or sell at the exact closing price. I was putting in simultaneous buy and sell orders, with the buy slightly smaller, so that I would not run into a cash shortage. It worked fine, and I was hoping to continue.

This last week, I was unable to place this kind of trade. This is now blocked across all of my accounts as far as I can tell. I had to call for help, pay $25, and assert on the recorded line that I would not have a trading violation. It took a long time, and was more than a little bit humiliating. This is not going to work going forward.

I do not want to trade MOC orders on two seperate days because the ETF I want to buy might gap-up before the next trading day. If I’m trading $500,000 then a 1% gap like we’ve seen when Important People tweet after-hours to pump the market is very tough to swallow.

If I have to trade during the day, then I want to trade with a brokerage that doesn’t sell my order flow, and will give me better price improvements, namely Fidelity. I just don’t see how I accomplish my objectives at Schwab. There has been some kind of policy change for my accounts and I can’t do what I was doing earlier with the MOC orders.

Before I move the accounts out of Schwab, do you have anything to offer? I don’t just want to leave without letting you know about the situation.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by pugchief » Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:28 pm

Sorry Ocho, that sux. I used to be a Schwab fanboy, but various crap like this made me move my loyalties to Fido.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:56 am

Change underway... scary more than $1 million in motion
Kbg
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by Kbg » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:00 pm

You've probably made up your mind, but I find IB excellent.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:23 pm

Kbg wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:00 pm
You've probably made up your mind, but I find IB excellent.
I agree it looks interesting. What pricing plan you on?
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:31 pm

Would you agree to a trading test? Buy some specific shares on a set time and date, and see what the price is?
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by Kbg » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:03 pm

I do IBKR Pro. For my trading account I use margin from time to time and I like the execution control PRO provides. The margin savings alone make it worth to me.

I’m confident trade execution will be quite satisfactory.

A couple of things you should be aware of if thinking about going with IB.

It is assumed you have high a degree of knowledge and the platform is built for those types of users (desktop/web). However, their phone app is pretty easy to use and they have more simplified options as well. There has been a lot change recently in options provided that are clearly aimed at less sophisticated traders.

If you go with pro...

You do have to select and pay for quotes. My data package comes in at $14 per mo. Cost is based on what you need/order. You can do free quote snapshots if you trade during the day. There is monthly account fee of $10 for accounts under I think 100 or 110K, however commissions are deducted from the fee on a month per month basis. On the positive side margin is a full 1% lower than free trading and you have full control over how your order executes. I almost always use their price improvement algos and they do make a difference I think.

I would do two things...call them and talk about how you trade and what they recommend. Get a demo account and check out their technology. I would be totally shocked if you ever had the same problem you had with Schwab but you should ask them how they would handle it...but I imagine they will tell you about their various trade execution options/algos and it will be up to you.

I think their main weakness in my view is bonds. Not impressed. If you are a treasury/other bonds guy, I would definitely pay attention to that if you do a demo account.

Here’s my personal take...I have Schwab, Fido, IB and M1 accounts. My favorite two are IB and M1. IB is way advanced and dirt cheap when looked at as a total package. M1 is phenomenal for making buy, add monthly amounts, rebalance and auto reinvest dividends for a fixed allocation portfolio as simple as probably possible. I find Schwab and Fido sorta just middle of the road ok when compared to IB and M1.

The above assessment could change once I get into drawdown mode as I believe the others have pretty good retirement funds management/withdrawal capabilities which M1 and IB don’t seem that robust in.

In sum, best brokerage depends on what is important to you.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:26 am

Nice report. Honestly I'd just like as simple an interface as possible. I trade but I don't want to be a trader, if you know what I mean. I want to get a good price above all.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by Kbg » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:41 am

Without fail, every "free trading" broker is selling your flow and receiving compensation for that flow. So if anyone believes free is actually free, it isn't. If you go IB then there are simplified options. For smaller trades I mainly use their phone app which is quite easy to use.

Spend some time here: https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=4985

Recommend filtering on IBKR Lite and Price Improvement
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:21 am

"IBKR Lite was designed to meet the needs of investors who are seeking a simple, cost-free way to trade US exchange-listed stocks and ETFs and do not wish to consider our efforts to obtain greater price improvement through our IB SmartRoutingSM system."

IBKR Lite does sell order flow... not sure how that's better than Schwab.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by pugchief » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:45 am

Pretty sure Fidelity does not sell order flow. And they are 'free'. More money to be made on low interest on idle cash, and even there, Fidelity excels. Not as well as Vanguard, but way better than the rest.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:47 pm

Schwab and cash.... Grrrrrrr
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by pugchief » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:01 pm

ochotona wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:47 pm
Schwab and cash.... Grrrrrrr
That was the main reason I left Schwab. I started with a 'high-yield' interest checking account that paid very competitive interest. The brokerage account was linked but not used. I liked the checking so much, I started giving them my investments. But then the checking stopped paying competitive rates, and the brokerage was the same as all the others. Only Fido and Vg pay decent interest on cash, but Vg is clunky and difficult to deal with.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:31 pm

Accounts landed very quickly at Fidelity. Trying really hard to find where things are and get used to it. I think it'll be fine. I am going to not take any calls which say SCHWAB on my Caller ID. Don't need the harassment.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by pugchief » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:18 pm

ochotona wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:31 pm
Accounts landed very quickly at Fidelity. Trying really hard to find where things are and get used to it. I think it'll be fine. I am going to not take any calls which say SCHWAB on my Caller ID. Don't need the harassment.
I wouldn't worry. When I moved most of my money out, I never heard from them. I think if they were going to contact you, it would have been when they received the transfer request, before they sent the funds. I'm sure they get hundreds of transfer out requests every day.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:57 pm

Voicemail from Schwab today. I deleted it without listening to it and blocked the number.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:46 am

"$0 commissions. That's right – you can trade commission-free with Ally Invest Self-Directed Trading." - not Sophie's Choice
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