The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:10 am

This is really The Left is Eating All of US.
Boglehead asked about residential crime data in Maryland. Someone posted an interesting article from last year:
Two major real estate search engines nix crime data in racial equity push
Taubman said that Redfin had been weighing whether to add information about crime because one of the metrics that consumers consider when looking for a home to purchase is how safe the area around that home is. The company concluded that available crime data doesn’t accurately answer that question, and “given the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rest ... quity-push
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by joypog » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:03 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:10 am
This is really The Left is Eating All of US.
Boglehead asked about residential crime data in Maryland. Someone posted an interesting article from last year:
Two major real estate search engines nix crime data in racial equity push
Taubman said that Redfin had been weighing whether to add information about crime because one of the metrics that consumers consider when looking for a home to purchase is how safe the area around that home is. The company concluded that available crime data doesn’t accurately answer that question, and “given the long history of redlining and racist housing covenants in the United States there’s too great a risk of this inaccuracy reinforcing racial bias.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rest ... quity-push
That's some classic Soviet level shit there. Good job Comrade!
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:14 am

doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:08 am
John Mackey has never been a 'leftist'

Another head scratcher for me....why are natural and organic grocers and health food stores generally associated with left wing? Wouldn't conservative food practices look more organically Amish than Monsanto and syngenta?
The natural foods movement was an outgrowth of the sixties, at which time "liberalism" meant something entirely different than it does today. It was part of a much larger "back to the land" movement, the defining value of which was freedom. It was an essentially libertarian movement.

The confusion, I believe, stems from the mistaken belief that there is a continuity of values between the "left wing" of the sixties and the "left wing" of today. I have noticed that there are a good many people my age who continue to identify with the democrat party despite the fact that their party abandoned them long ago--and despite the fact that most of their values align with those of today's populist conservatism.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:24 am

RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:38 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:24 am
attn I_Shrugged

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-con ... ll/61/text
Why me?

I mean, I don’t like it….
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:25 pm

Wow. That bill is terrifying. It is in itself what it purports to stop.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by jalanlong » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:03 pm

https://nypost.com/2023/01/11/wells-far ... e=hs_email

Is this something shareholders would be in favor of? Maximizing profits would seem to be the number one priority to me if I were a shareholder.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:19 pm

https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/a ... nservatism

MORNING SHOTS
A Short Guide to MAGA "Conservatism"
What it is. And what it isn't.

Charlie Sykes
13 hr ago
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:56 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:19 pm
https://morningshots.thebulwark.com/p/a ... nservatism

MORNING SHOTS
A Short Guide to MAGA "Conservatism"
What it is. And what it isn't.

Charlie Sykes
13 hr ago
Would it be too much to ask that you actually address the ISSUES?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:42 am

Kind of the wrong thread, isn’t it, Vinny?
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:57 am

dualstow wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:42 am

Kind of the wrong thread, isn’t it, Vinny?


Counterpoint.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am

vnatale wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:57 am
dualstow wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:42 am
Kind of the wrong thread, isn’t it, Vinny?
Counterpoint.
But you didn't make a point. Simply reaching into a trove of articles from "approved " sources and posting one that generically demeans your political adversaries is not debate. It simply derails the discussion, which is a poor substitute for argument.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by glennds » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:35 am

Maddy wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:14 am
doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:08 am
John Mackey has never been a 'leftist'

Another head scratcher for me....why are natural and organic grocers and health food stores generally associated with left wing? Wouldn't conservative food practices look more organically Amish than Monsanto and syngenta?
The natural foods movement was an outgrowth of the sixties, at which time "liberalism" meant something entirely different than it does today. It was part of a much larger "back to the land" movement, the defining value of which was freedom. It was an essentially libertarian movement.

The confusion, I believe, stems from the mistaken belief that there is a continuity of values between the "left wing" of the sixties and the "left wing" of today. I have noticed that there are a good many people my age who continue to identify with the democrat party despite the fact that their party abandoned them long ago--and despite the fact that most of their values align with those of today's populist conservatism.
Maddy, I agree with your first part, and hadn't really thought about the difference in the natural food movements then and now.
But I think there is a different root cause to the confusion. Conservatives have a hard time dealing with dichotomy IMO.
So while on the one hand, being pro-business and anti-government intervention is a very conservative trait, what happens when private business like Monsanto and Syngenta are adultering the food supply in ways that are destructive to consumers?

The Ayn Rand libertarian answer would be for consumers to turn to their competitors and let the free market do its thing. But these companies have monopoly-like power and an opaque presence where it isn't easy (or cheap) to go to a competitor. So what's a conservative to do? Look to the government to protect the consumer (gasp!). Accept their practices in the name of business? Advocate for safer food supply and sound like a liberal (gasp!)?

Similar thing is going on in Florida where a private company Disney is being punished by government for their woke practices. To be clear, I think their woke practices suck, but I also think government actively looking for ways to legislatively penalize them because they don't like it sucks more. Another conservative dilemma.
Most conservatives I know will side with DeSantis because they hate woke, Disney, Democrats and California that much. But what they're doing in the process is embracing and endorsing government interference (tyranny) which the conservative part of me feels is fighting one sin by endorsing a bigger sin. Slippery slope.

Bottom line, there are some issues where conservatives and liberals should hold their noses and concede that they're in agreement for the sake of the public. Food industry regulation might be one of them.
Last edited by glennds on Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Tortoise » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 pm

glennds wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:35 am
So while on the one hand, being pro-business and anti-government intervention is a very conservative trait, what happens when private business like Monsanto and Syngenta are adultering the food supply in ways that are destructive to consumers?

The Ayn Rand libertarian answer would be for consumers to turn to their competitors and let the free market do its thing. But these companies have monopoly-like power and an opaque presence where it isn't easy (or cheap) to go to a competitor. So what's a conservative to do? Look to the government to protect the consumer (gasp!). Accept their practices in the name of business. Advocate for safer food supply and sound like a liberal (gasp!).
If a corporation starts to achieve monopoly-like power, it's often because it's receiving subsidies or special privileges or protections from the government. That special treatment by the government makes it harder for other companies -- especially smaller ones -- to compete with it (higher barriers to entry, more regulatory overhead, etc.).

So the Ayn Rand libertarian solution to monopoly-like power is less government, not more of it -- because government usually enables the corporation's monopoly-like power in the first place.

glennds wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:35 am
Similar thing is going on in Florida where a private company Disney is being punished by government for their woke practices. To be clear, I think their woke practices suck, but I also think government actively looking for ways to legislatively penalize them because they don't like it sucks more. Another conservative dilemma.
Most conservatives I know will side with DeSantis because they hate woke, Disney, Democrats and California that much. But what they're doing in the process is embracing and endorsing government interference (tyranny) which the conservative part of me feels is fighting one sin by endorsing a bigger sin. Slippery slope.
My understanding of the situation in Florida is that DeSantis recently signed legislation that removed Disney's special tax privileges that had been granted to it decades ago by Florida's legislature. Those tax privileges were granted only to Disney and not to any other companies.

Is the removal of Disney's tax privileges a form of punishment? I suppose one could view it that way, but one could also view the original granting of those tax privileges to Disney decades ago as a form of punishment to all of the other companies that didn't receive them. The recent removal of Disney's tax privileges simply means it is now taxed at the same rate as other companies. That doesn't strike me as particularly unfair. Quite the opposite, in fact.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:56 pm

glennds wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:35 am
Maddy, I agree with your first part, and hadn't really thought about the difference in the natural food movements then and now.
But I think there is a different root cause to the confusion. Conservatives have a hard time dealing with dichotomy IMO.
So while on the one hand, being pro-business and anti-government intervention is a very conservative trait, what happens when private business like Monsanto and Syngenta are adultering the food supply in ways that are destructive to consumers?

The Ayn Rand libertarian answer would be for consumers to turn to their competitors and let the free market do its thing. But these companies have monopoly-like power and an opaque presence where it isn't easy (or cheap) to go to a competitor. So what's a conservative to do? Look to the government to protect the consumer (gasp!). Accept their practices in the name of business. Advocate for safer food supply and sound like a liberal (gasp!).

Similar thing is going on in Florida where a private company Disney is being punished by government for their woke practices. To be clear, I think their woke practices suck, but I also think government actively looking for ways to legislatively penalize them because they don't like it sucks more. Another conservative dilemma.
Most conservatives I know will side with DeSantis because they hate woke, Disney, Democrats and California that much. But what they're doing in the process is embracing and endorsing government interference (tyranny) which the conservative part of me feels is fighting one sin by endorsing a bigger sin. Slippery slope.

Bottom line, there are some issues where conservatives and liberals should hold their noses and concede that they're in agreement for the sake of the public. Food industry regulation might be one of them.
If there is a place for government regulation (and I'm not such a purist as to deny that there is), it would seem to be in the areas of food and pharmaceuticals. But if the last year has opened our eyes to anything, it is that we cannot trust government to carry out even that responsibility without massive corruption and conflict of interest. With respect to the CoVid debacle and to the vaccine in particular, it's a fair question whether the multiple layers of regulation we endured in the name of "safety"--but that were designed to line the pockets of both the regulators and the regulated--left consumers considerably worse off as a result of than they would have been had they simply been allowed access to the data and to the full marketplace of scientific and medical opinion.

I'd be curious to know how the classical leftists who have roots in the sixties and whose lives still revolve around the natural foods store view the anti-organic, "all things synthetic" campaign being waged by the WEF and its woke constituency.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by glennds » Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:19 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 pm


If a corporation starts to achieve monopoly-like power, it's often because it's receiving subsidies or special privileges or protections from the government. That special treatment by the government makes it harder for other companies -- especially smaller ones -- to compete with it (higher barriers to entry, more regulatory overhead, etc.).

So the Ayn Rand libertarian solution to monopoly-like power is less government, not more of it -- because government usually enables the corporation's monopoly-like power in the first place.
We're talking about the impact on the food supply of large corporations who have gotten into genetic modification and other novel practices that have been destructive to consumer health yet enhanced their profitability. Do you think less government intervention would somehow cause these types of companies to be more responsible and to their own financial detriment? Do you think less government would cause a monopolistic company to be less monopolistic?

I would say the special treatment you're referencing is mostly a by-product of large interests buying off Congress (legally thanks to Citizen's United). So who's at fault? Shame on the government for allowing itself to be bought off?
Shame on the corporate interests for successfully attempting large scale corruption in the first place?
Shame on SCOTUS for making it all legal?
Either way, God help the individual citizen.

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 pm
My understanding of the situation in Florida is that DeSantis recently signed legislation that removed Disney's special tax privileges that had been granted to it decades ago by Florida's legislature. Those tax privileges were granted only to Disney and not to any other companies.

Is the removal of Disney's tax privileges a form of punishment? I suppose one could view it that way, but one could also view the original granting of those tax privileges to Disney decades ago as a form of punishment to all of the other companies that didn't receive them. The recent removal of Disney's tax privileges simply means it is now taxed at the same rate as other companies. That doesn't strike me as particularly unfair. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Here's a link to the transcript of a good podcast Forbes put out that talks about the Reedy Creek Improvement District, why the bill was drafted to eliminate it, what benefits Disney enjoyed and will lose, and what issues the elimination will create for the counties and public that will assume the obligations. From your comments, I think you will find it educational, to put it politely. Personally I think when all is said and done, the elimination of the district will be more expensive for Floridians than they thought and one day they might wish they had it back.

A few excerpts:
Florida has over 1,800 special districts, and they're basically miniature local governments that can provide essential services and create their own infrastructure. They come in different shapes and sizes.
But the general idea is that they exist to bring something to the state, whether it's recreation or economic development, without necessarily relying on local taxpayers from neighboring counties to fund what goes on in the district.
The governor and some lawmakers have made it clear that the idea for the legislation stemmed from Disney's public statement on the recent law that prohibits classroom discussion on sexual orientation and gender identity in public schools. They had clarified that their decision to take another look at these districts was in part because of Disney's statement that they wanted to openly oppose the bill.
Disney will continue to pay taxes. Disney World has always paid state and local taxes. The district wasn't a tax exemption for Disney in that sense.
That's one of the bigger issues that's come out of this. If the district is dissolved, Florida state law specifies that the assets and debt from the district will be transferred to neighboring localities. In this case, that would be Orange and Osceola Counties.
Some local officials, including Orange County Mayor Jerry Deming expressed concern that assuming control of the district's assets might result in the need for additional taxes or tax increases.

Another potential issue is that the statute that created the Reedy Creek District specifies that the state isn't allowed to eliminate it without paying off its bond debt, which is upwards of $1 billion.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:50 pm

Heavy on the ‘eating itself’:
‘A Black Professor Trapped in Anti-Racist Hell’
https://compactmag.com/article/a-black- ... acist-hell
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by boglerdude » Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:32 pm

^ struggle sessions

"This strikes me as an illustration of the power dynamic. To take race out of my point, I recall what happened when my godson's middle school adopted a zero tolerance of bullying policy. Fair enough, right? Wrong. What the policy did was shift power from the bully to the bullied, or more accurately, from the students with the most power to the students with the least power (power as it exists at a middle school, the popular kids having the power and the unpopular kids having no power). How that newfound power was exercised was an eye opener: with the zero tolerance policy, the newly empowered students knew they controlled the fate of the once-powerful by a charge of bullying, the charge alone by a single student resulting in school suspension of the bully. With its zero tolerance policy, the school had created monsters, the aggrieved (victims) turning the tables on the perpetrators (bullies). " via the comments https://marginalrevolution.com/marginal ... -hell.html

The masks were to remind everyone there was a "pandemic," and shifted power to anti-social people
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:19 am

If you accept the trope that history is written by the winners, you could look at wokism/leftism as losers attempting to write history. In boglerdude's quote, by the losers in a high school. Elsewhere in society by MeToo feminists, mask- and injection-Nazis, the diversity industry...

Along the lines of the diversity industry & ESG,
Partly at issue is that companies tend to lean on a “last in, first out” approach to layoffs, said Brooks Scott, founder and CEO of executive coaching firm Merging Path Coaching. “Companies have rushed to think of the bottom line, but whenever we try to optimize for speed, we’re probably going to skip over diversity, equity and inclusion.

Instead, he said companies should consider race, gender and ethnicity when deciding who to let go. link
This leftist, most certainly unwittingly, acknowledges that DEI is a luxury function. Companies can virtue-signal with DEI and ESG when times are good, such as when they're getting infusions of easy capital, or goodwill, or economic booms, or whatever. But it's a drag (heh) on them that they can shed once they decide that the bottom line, or speed (or quality, or maximizing profit, etc) is something that matters to them again.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:36 pm

To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes
https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increas ... s-d5985dee
(paywall)
#NotTheOnion
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:24 am

When Hillary took her infamous fall and showed up in inch-thick prism glasses, I suspected immediately that she was in panic mode. Having worked with many high-flying, risk-taking clients in the course of my legal career, I recognized the pattern. The minute they get scared of going to prison, they make a public display of illness or injury that (1) clouds their memory of all things past, (2) makes it impossible for them to understand questions, (3) raises questions about their capacity for criminal intent, and (4) will predictably be raised as a mitigating factor in sentencing--if it ever comes to that. Cruel and unusual, doncha know.

If my theory holds true, just about everybody in D.C. is panicking, because they're all suddenly becoming sick and senile. But then again, maybe it was just the shot.

But even I was taken by surprise this morning when I saw none other than Klaus Schwab make a public display of complete and utter disorientedness. Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6zHTn0lzw
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by DogBreath » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:53 am

Maddy wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:24 am

But even I was taken by surprise this morning when I saw none other than Klaus Schwab make a public display of complete and utter disorientedness. Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6zHTn0lzw
That's George Soros, not Klaus Schwab, in the video.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:16 am

Maybe she meant one other than Klaus Schwab.
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Maddy » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:57 am

Damn, you're right! That's not the first time I've juxtaposed them. (Can't imagine why. Could be that head injury I had last week. . .)
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by GT » Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:37 am

Maddy wrote:
Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:24 am
When Hillary took her infamous fall and showed up in inch-thick prism glasses, I suspected immediately that she was in panic mode. Having worked with many high-flying, risk-taking clients in the course of my legal career, I recognized the pattern.
The minute they get scared of going to prison, they make a public display of illness or injury that (1) clouds their memory of all things past, (2) makes it impossible for them to understand questions, (3) raises questions about their capacity for criminal intent, and (4) will predictably be raised as a mitigating factor in sentencing--if it ever comes to that. Cruel and unusual, doncha know.
If my theory holds true, just about everybody in D.C. is panicking, because they're all suddenly becoming sick and senile. But then again, maybe it was just the shot.

But even I was taken by surprise this morning when I saw none other than Klaus Schwab make a public display of complete and utter disorientedness. Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg6zHTn0lzw
Great observation - I love the ones that also have a dash of overconfidence - the ones that fire their legal team and represent themselves
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