The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

[dualstow]

You’re missing a “]” at the end of the top line

[Xan]

At the University of Texas, at least 90% of the students must be in-state by law. At Texas A&M, 95% of the students are in-state. A&M is ranked #10 in engineering by US News, including #2 in petroleum engineering and #3 in nuclear engineering. UT is ranked #7 in engineering, including #1 in petroleum engineering and #4 in civil engineering.

[Xan]

You’re missing a “]” at the end of the top line

I went ahead and fixed it

[DogBreath]

Who would want to do an OB/GYN residency in Houston as compared to Chicago?

I would. And if the migration stats between states are any indication, so would a majority of those prone to move.

Do you think allowing elective abortion in the ninth month like CO does is a better plan? Both sides are completely ridiculous. This topic is clearly an emotional and divisive issue. My preference would be for a nationwide compromise at around 15 weeks, but in lieu of that, people are free to move to states that better fit their philosophies. And more people are leaving blue states for red. Why do you suppose that is?

[ochotona]

My real issue is with the exceptions.

I think those who argue that the progeny of a rapist deserves to be brought into the world by means of the body of the victim are excessively cruel. Such a stance assigns zero value, zero meaning for what it's like to be the victim of a sexual assault, and to have to go through nine months, and then suffer the pain at the end... it's treating the victim like a lab animal, or breeding stock. And this doesn't even consider some of the younger, smaller rape / incest victims whose uteruses and vaginas would literally be ruptured by giving birth, and unusable to them later in life as instruments for having children they truly desire to have, or even just for having normal voluntarily relations which someone they love.

Exceptions to save the life of the mother... so it's a "win" if the mother barely lives, and maybe is in an impaired state for the rest of her life? "Well, at least she didn't die". No, dude, she sure didn't, but maybe her health and ability to thrive is shot. This kind of thinking is consistent with the 19th century when these laws were written - pregnancy was dangerous, huge numbers of women and children died in childbirth, and therefore women were just seen as disposable vessels. I can't support any legislation that doesn't care about the total health and well-being of the mother.

And I don't like slow-moving parties outside of the doctor-patient relationship getting involved in litigation and court cases and appeals. Good God, medical decisions are made in real time! Look at the clustercuss of the Texas Cox case, and how long that thing is going to drag on for after the pregnancy is over. The total loss of privacy for the family. And I guarantee they going to be sued civilly under the Texas abortion vigilante law. What a monstrosity that law is. It's not a win for life... it's win for whoever is going to get $10,000 in a civil judgement in this case. It's the Texas $10,000 abortion lottery.

[DogBreath]

My real issue is with the exceptions.

I think those who argue that the progeny of a rapist deserves to be brought into the world by means of the body of the victim are excessively cruel. Such a stance assigns zero value, zero meaning for what it's like to be the victim of a sexual assault, and to have to go through nine months, and then suffer the pain at the end... it's treating the victim like a lab animal, or breeding stock. And this doesn't even consider some of the younger, smaller rape / incest victims whose uteruses and vaginas would literally be ruptured by giving birth, and unusable to them later in life as instruments for having children they truly desire to have, or even just for having normal voluntarily relations which someone they love.

Exceptions to save the life of the mother... so it's a "win" if the mother barely lives, and maybe is in an impaired state for the rest of her life? "Well, at least she didn't die". No, dude, she sure didn't, but maybe her health and ability to thrive is shot. This kind of thinking is consistent with the 19th century when these laws were written - pregnancy was dangerous, huge numbers of women and children died in childbirth, and therefore women were just seen as disposable vessels. I can't support any legislation that doesn't care about the total health and well-being of the mother.

And I don't like slow-moving parties outside of the doctor-patient relationship getting involved in litigation and court cases and appeals. Good God, medical decisions are made in real time! Look at the clustercuss of the Texas Cox case, and how long that thing is going to drag on for after the pregnancy is over. The total loss of privacy for the family. And I guarantee they going to be sued civilly under the Texas abortion vigilante law. What a monstrosity that law is. It's not a win for life... it's win for whoever is going to get $10,000 in a civil judgement in this case. It's the Texas $10,000 abortion lottery.

I don't disagree. But you failed to answer my questions:
-Is the CO law allowing elective abortion in the ninth month acceptable?
-Why are more people moving from blue states to red? (Maybe abortion isn't the only issue to consider?)

[Xan]

ocho, you have some valid points. But on this:

And I don't like slow-moving parties outside of the doctor-patient relationship getting involved in litigation and court cases and appeals. Good God, medical decisions are made in real time! Look at the clustercuss of the Texas Cox case

The state Supreme Court in overturning the district court agrees with you that only a doctor can exercise medical judgment here, and that women who meet the medical-necessity exemption do not need a court order.

The law leaves to physicians—not judges—both the discretion and the responsibility to exercise their reasonable medical judgment, given the unique facts and circumstances of each patient.

The original ruling was overturned because in the original suit to pre-authorize the procedure, the doctor did not assert that her patient met the exemption.

The exemption is:

in the exercise of reasonable medical judgment, the pregnant female . . . has a life-threatening physical condition aggravated by, caused by, or arising from a pregnancy that places the female at risk of death or poses a serious risk of substantial impairment of a major bodily function unless the abortion is performed or induced.

It seems that your concern of a mother being "maybe is in an impaired state for the rest of her life" is covered by the exemption.


_

[vnatale]

I don't disagree. But you failed to answer my questions:
-Is the CO law allowing elective abortion in the ninth month acceptable?
-Why are more people moving from blue states to red? (Maybe abortion isn't the only issue to consider?)

Seems to be an accurate assertion. However, the concluding paragraph from below states:

"Still, the overall trends are clear. People living in blue states – by and large – tend to live longer, healthier and wealthier lives."


https://theconversation.com/americans-a ... ifferences

Americans are increasingly moving to red, Republican-leaning states – where life is cheaper, but people also die younger
Published: May 25, 2023 8:27am EDT

[DogBreath]

Seems to be an accurate assertion. However, the concluding paragraph from below states:

"Still, the overall trends are clear. People living in blue states – by and large – tend to live longer, healthier and wealthier lives."


https://theconversation.com/americans-a ... ifferences

Americans are increasingly moving to red, Republican-leaning states – where life is cheaper, but people also die younger
Published: May 25, 2023 8:27am EDT

C'mon Vinny, you are smarter than that. It is an idiotic conclusion that moving from a blue state to a red one will decrease your life expectancy. The article even states that wealth and education are the determining factors. So if you are smart and wealthy, and move to a red state from a blue one, are you likely to shorten your life span?

And it's not just that the red states tend to be "cheaper", the level of freedom is higher. Less regulations, less intrusions, less crime.

[vnatale]

Seems to be an accurate assertion. However, the concluding paragraph from below states:

"Still, the overall trends are clear. People living in blue states – by and large – tend to live longer, healthier and wealthier lives."


https://theconversation.com/americans-a ... ifferences

Americans are increasingly moving to red, Republican-leaning states – where life is cheaper, but people also die younger
Published: May 25, 2023 8:27am EDT

C'mon Vinny, you are smarter than that. It is an idiotic conclusion that moving from a blue state to a red one will decrease your life expectancy. The article even states that wealth and education are the determining factors. So if you are smart and wealthy, and move to a red state from a blue one, are you likely to shorten your life span?

And it's not just that the red states tend to be "cheaper", the level of freedom is higher. Less regulations, less intrusions, less crime.

I believe the thrust of the article was that blue states have higher life expectancy than red ones. Any disputing that?

Furthermore, I think that instead of citing "wealth and education" it cites "health and education" as being the greatest determinants of the higher life expectancies?

But why do the blue states have the higher life expectancies?

You are 22 years old, a new college graduate, want to have a family in the future, and are in a position to take a job in any state in the country. Which scenario is going to lead to a better life than for you and your future family. Living in a blue state or a red state?

"less crime"?

https://gigafact.org/fact-briefs/do-red ... lue-states

Do red states report higher rates of violent crime than blue states?
Thursday, June 24, 2021
By Stevie Rosignol-Cortez

YES
In 2020, nine of ten states with the highest per capita violent crime rates leaned Republican, while eight of ten states with the lowest rates leaned Democrat, according to a cross-analysis of the latest available FBI crime data with FiveThirtyEight's partisan lean index.

"the level of freedom is higher. Less regulations, less intrusions"

Unless you want to make the personal decision to have an abortion?

And, you want to put up with the highest chances of you or someone else being killed by a gun.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajoh ... 71c69b1f81

Red States Have Higher Gun Death Rates Than Blue States. Here’s Why
Arianna Johnson
Forbes Staff

Updated Apr 28, 2023, 12:26pm EDT
TOPLINE A new study published in Journal of the American Medical Association’s Surgery found that firearm deaths are more likely in small rural towns than in major urban cities, adding to research that contradicts common belief that Democratic blue areas have higher incidences of gun-related deaths than do Republican red districts.

[ochotona]

I don't disagree. But you failed to answer my questions:
-Is the CO law allowing elective abortion in the ninth month acceptable?
-Why are more people moving from blue states to red? (Maybe abortion isn't the only issue to consider?)

I don't think doing abortions in the 9th month is OK at all, but think about this:

1. Mother-to-be presents in the emergency department with a severe emergency in the 9th month
2. Doctor performs an emergency C-section
3. Sadly, the infant dies
4. Under the Texas abortion vigilante law, some yahoo sues the doctor in an attempt to get the $10,000 brass ring
5. Worse still, an activist DA charges the doctor with murder because... whatever. Virtue signaling to the GOP primary voters

That whole entire process is still real and out there. That creates an unacceptable environment for OB/GYNS.

Well, people move from blue to red states because of HCOL in blue states and jobs. That's an easy answer. But I wonder if the people coming her now are going to trend towards more conservative, more dudes (50% female in USA, 47% female in Alaska), or just oblivious and follow the money.

[DogBreath]

I don't think doing abortions in the 9th month is OK at all, but think about this:

1. Mother-to-be presents in the emergency department with a severe emergency in the 9th month

I specifically referred to elective abortions in the ninth month. If the health of the mother is at stake, that should be considered regardless of gestational timing, even where there are bans on abortion (IMHO).

[DogBreath]

I believe the thrust of the article was that blue states have higher life expectancy than red ones. Any disputing that?
No, but I dispute that simply moving from blue to red will shorten your life somehow. That's nonsense.

Furthermore, I think that instead of citing "wealth and education" it cites "health and education" as being the greatest determinants of the higher life expectancies?
From the article "Poverty is an indicator for life expectancies in the U.S. – the poorer someone is, the more likely to die younger."

But why do the blue states have the higher life expectancies?
Already discussed. More poor, uneducated people -> shorter lifespan

You are 22 years old, a new college graduate, want to have a family in the future, and are in a position to take a job in any state in the country. Which scenario is going to lead to a better life than for you and your future family. Living in a blue state or a red state? Without question, the RED state. You are already educated and likely to be above average wealth-wise (unless you were stupid enough to major in something like intersectional gender studies). Your lifespan is not based on where you happen to live from age 22-80. You are extrapolating conclusions that are not in evidence.

"less crime"?

https://gigafact.org/fact-briefs/do-red ... lue-states

Twisted numbers. I'll take living anywhere other than a blue city on any crime stat. How the rest of the state leans politically is irrelevant. Funny how no one talks about how Dallas, SLC or Miami has gone to hell, but if you look at NYC, LA, SF, Philly DC, Chicago (all Dem strongholds) OMG are they awful.

"the level of freedom is higher. Less regulations, less intrusions"

Unless you want to make the personal decision to have an abortion?
Yep, you found the one single issue that fits. Got any others? I didn't think so.

And, you want to put up with the highest chances of you or someone else being killed by a gun.
Ya, if you include suicides, No gun, no prob. There are lots of other ways to off yourself. The most likely place to be a victim of random gun violence is in a blue city, despite those articles trying to present a different, disingenuous conclusion.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ariannajoh ... 71c69b1f81

[seajay]

I don't think doing abortions in the 9th month is OK at all, but think about this:

1. Mother-to-be presents in the emergency department with a severe emergency in the 9th month

I specifically referred to elective abortions in the ninth month. If the health of the mother is at stake, that should be considered regardless of gestational timing, even where there are bans on abortion (IMHO).

Some might like to extend the option of abortion up to 16 years in the best interest of the mothers health The rules are however that you can't even slap them - and they know/exploit that. Rules are rules, instated for apparently good reasons. Protect children such that the yearly pre summer-break sports day now comprises of remaining seated and one by one stand to kick a ball into a empty net before sitting back down again, just in case there's a accident. Putting aside increased later life diabetes risk following the primary schoolers waddling around with obesity mature into mid/later life.

IMO the taking of a life should be a matter of being justifiable. A soldier killing a enemy has domestic peers justification. A emergency case of a mother presenting in her 9th month and it should be a doctors/family peers call. Around a non absolute guidance law.

[ochotona]

IMO the taking of a life should be a matter of being justifiable. A soldier killing a enemy has domestic peers justification. A emergency case of a mother presenting in her 9th month and it should be a doctors/family peers call. Around a non absolute guidance law.

I could not have said it better. Our society has never clung to the idea that "every human life is precious". Look at how we operate. The government (Federal, State, and Local) takes lives every day, every year, every decade, even in foreign lands where war hasn't been declared, and there hasn't been due process.

[vnatale]

Yet more....


https://prospect.org/health/2023-12-08- ... ive-power/

The Life-and-Death Cost of Conservative Power
New research shows widening gaps between red and blue states in life expectancy.

BY PAUL STARR DECEMBER 8, 2023

The shift of policymaking to the states is often justified on grounds of federalism and the belief that decisions should be left to the level of government closest to the people. But if conservatives genuinely believed in that principle, would they be agitating now for a national law to ban abortion? Would they be hoping that the Supreme Court continues to strike down state and local gun restrictions? Would they continue to support decisions by state legislatures to preempt local laws? What unites the right is not a principled belief in federalism or local control but a preference for making decisions at whatever level of government they dominate.

What also unites conservatives is a complete absence of any self-reflection about the impact of their policies on life and death in America. The futility thesis must be a great consolation to those who believe in it because otherwise they would have to confront the toll that their policies have taken. The balance of power in the states has been literally a life-and-death matter. Liberals and progressives should know that the policies they have struggled to enact have not been in vain.

[ochotona]

There was an interesting study done looking at local communities spanning either side of Erie, PA... the three States of Ohio, PA, and NY... and there were significant differences in health and longevity. The conclusion was based on how difficult / costly it was for people to gain access to care, which does correlate to Red vs Blue policies.

[dualstow]

There was an interesting study done looking at local communities spanning either side of Erie, PA... the three States of Ohio, PA, and NY... and there were significant differences in health and longevity. The conclusion was based on how difficult / costly it was for people to gain access to care, which does correlate to Red vs Blue policies.

That is indeed interesting. Best I could find was this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/i ... xpectancy/

[boglerdude]

"Bubba with a gun" has arrived! @1m15s

https://youtu.be/aDyQxtg0V2w?t=73

"What kind of American are you?"
Headcanon: "Ok. How many weeks did it take to flatten the curve? You dunno?"

Could be good flick if they touched on inflation etc. Impressed they left comments unlocked

[ochotona]

MORE CRAP

https://www.kron4.com/news/national/ap- ... rand-jury/

[vnatale]

MORE CRAP

https://www.kron4.com/news/national/ap- ... rand-jury/

“The county prosecutors are duty bound to follow Ohio law,” he wrote, noting that the memo would suffice as his office’s only comment on the matter.


Every day, in every court district in the land prosecutors decide when they want to prosecute and when they do not. A lot of times it is whether or not they think they can win the case.

[boglerdude]

Tragic. Far right pushing pro-life and far left pushing masks/lockdown/no jabs no job/UBI-communism.

Your body your choice. Not going to get fixed either because these people want the fight. Before social media they couldnt form mobs this large.

[vnatale]

Tragic. Far right pushing pro-life and far left pushing masks/lockdown/no jabs no job/UBI-communism.

Your body your choice. Not going to get fixed either because these people want the fight. Before social media they couldnt form mobs this large.

Except in the former it's never ending while in the latter it's in the past.

It was also probably more difficult to organize before the invention of the telephone. Then email.

[ochotona]

I think it goes beyond abortion... it's anything sex organ related.

If you met someone who all the time talked about Pokemon, non-stop, Pokemon this, Pokemon that, Pokemon values on eBay, conspiracies against Pokemon owners and suppression of their collection values (like goldbugs LOL) then you'd think there's something wrong with them.

When you have a large group of people whose psychology is so obsessive that they ALWAYS have to talk about and get involved in gynecological procedures, gender assignment procedures, or Gay Lesbian Queer issues, books that even mention sex-related things, and they never, ever, ever stop talking about it and acting about it, you'd have to wonder about whether there is something going on with their psychology.

HERE IS ANOTHER WINNING PIECE OF PERFORMATIVE POLITICS FROM MY AG KEN PAXTON:

Seattle Hospital sues after Texas Attorney General asks for handover of patient records

https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-hospital ... 07303.html

[vnatale]

I think it goes beyond abortion... it's anything sex organ related.

If you met someone who all the time talked about Pokemon, non-stop, Pokemon this, Pokemon that, Pokemon values on eBay, conspiracies against Pokemon owners and suppression of their collection values (like goldbugs LOL) then you'd think there's something wrong with them.

When you have a large group of people whose psychology is so obsessive that they ALWAYS have to talk about and get involved in gynecological procedures, gender assignment procedures, or Gay Lesbian Queer issues, books that even mention sex-related things, and they never, ever, ever stop talking about it and acting about it, you'd have to wonder about whether there is something going on with their psychology.

HERE IS ANOTHER WINNING PIECE OF PERFORMATIVE POLITICS FROM MY AG KEN PAXTON:

Seattle Hospital sues after Texas Attorney General asks for handover of patient records

https://news.yahoo.com/seattle-hospital ... 07303.html

Yet they never talk about the by far and away most frequent sex "crime / sin" at all. Adultery.

In sheer absolute numbers those acts dwarf the acts of the ones that they seem to be obsessed with.