Ohio Disaster

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Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:21 am

And yes, this DOES belong in Politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M

Does anyone want to provide a counterpoint to this? How 'bout you, Vinny?
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:55 am

Well, that video exactly illustrates my problem with Fox News. TC doesn't have anyone on record saying the things he is projecting onto the Biden administration. Yes, the administration is looking for racial equity problems everywhere. But there isn't much reason to think that someone said, hey, that's a town of white Republican voters, screw them. But that is TC's conclusion on his lead story of the program. This is what they do with every happening, and why you can't actually get any "news" from Fox News.

I see the federal response to the disaster more as ineptitude, not malice.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:19 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:21 am

And yes, this DOES belong in Politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M

Does anyone want to provide a counterpoint to this? How 'bout you, Vinny?


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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:24 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:21 am

And yes, this DOES belong in Politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M

Does anyone want to provide a counterpoint to this? How 'bout you, Vinny?


And, here what I read in a baseball newsletter today (the writer lives in Ohio):

Other Stuff
“We basically nuked a town”
I’ve been a bit detached from the news since I’ve been out of town, but the continuing disaster in East Palestine, Ohio has been at the front of my mind for the past several days.

There’s not a ton of unique insight I can add to what has happened there, but when a hazardous materials specialist is quoted as saying “[w]e basically nuked a town with chemicals so we could get a railroad open,” what else is there to say? I mean, I imagine Norfolk-Southern Railroad has trotted out some highly-paid spokesperson to tell credulous news outlets that there is no continuing danger � and of courrse Ohio’s governor is claiming that to be the case � but I’m guessing neitther the railroad executives nor the spokesperson, nor the parts of the media who pass along their assurances uncritically would be willing to huff some burning ethylene glycol monobutyl ether or ethylhexyl acrylate and isobutylene. It’s OK for the poor fucks in East Palestine, Ohio, however. Never mind that animals are dying for no reason.

There have been a lot of people on social media talking about how “nobody is covering East Palestine” but that’s not true, really. You only need to do a couple of quick searches to see that there is, actually, a lot of coverage about it, especially locally. What you’re not seeing is a ton of high-level commentary or front-page headline coverage from national outlets. I don’t think this is, necessarily, because no one cares about bad shit that happens in the Rust Belt. I think it’s because we’re in a time in American history in which there is nothing one can really say.

There’s nothing to say because in every way that matters we chose this. We as a country anyway. The derailment was not a natural disaster. It was caused by specific policy choices and policy failures. We’ve gone out of our way to create the conditions for this disaster and others like it to happen and to keep happening again and there’s not much we can practically do about it now. At least not anything for which we have the requisite will.

It’s only been a couple of months since railroad workers moved to strike over staffing and working conditions, warning against inevitable future disasters due to those factor, only to have the federal government head that all off in a way that made the railroad companies happy. We have spent the past four decades deregulating everything, including labor, transportation and environmental protection. The railroads themselves have been characterized by ownership and shareholder greed which has led to operational austerity. When the story of this derailment and environmental disaster is fully told I am confident that its causes and its consequences will be attributable to factors that would’ve been entirely avoidable had we not given big business a free pass in every way that matters since the early 80s. I am likewise confident that neither the railroad companies, their lobbyists, nor their enablers in government will pay any real price for what has happened. It’s only the victims who pay a price.

So if you’re a national news editor or commentator, what can you say? Are you gonna go in and talk about what really caused the East Palestine disaster and how the next one can be prevented or are you gonna just run the horrifying photos for a news cycle or two and then move on to the next thing? You do the latter, of course, because no one has the stomach or the bandwidth to truly engage with the real cause here, which is America’s nearly complete abdication of responsibility to do anything that might upset corporate power even a little bit.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by boglerdude » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:34 pm

https://old.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/co ... e/j8dixr9/

There were also union issues with Alec Baldwin's shooting
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:35 pm

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/16/palest ... ce=twitter

Ohio derailment prompts calls to investigate federal oversight of trains


Yes, but: Buttigieg responded by saying that the ability to improve rail safety and "reduce constraints" lies with Congress.

"Glad to see newfound bipartisan agreement here," he tweeted in reference to Cruz and Omar. "We could start by discussing immediate steps Congress could take ... Give us a call, we can do some good work."

Buttigieg pointed out earlier this week that his agency's ability to regulate the rail system is "constrained by law" due to the Trump administration's 2017 withdrawal of a rule that would have required the installation of electronic braking systems on some trains carrying flammable materials. Electronic breaks can stop trains more quickly than typical air brakes.

That move was enabled by a measure passed by Congress, which in 2015 mandated additional research and cost-benefit analyses of the technology.
"[W]e are using the powers we do have to keep people safe," Buttigieg said.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:42 am

boglerdude wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:34 pm
https://old.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/co ... e/j8dixr9/

There were also union issues with Alec Baldwin's shooting
Yesterday's headline on CNBC--all day--featured a story exploring how streaming is overtaking traditional television. Not a freaking word about what is potentially the worst environmental disaster and health threat in recent history.

Other mainstream news outlets that similarly ignored the story were carrying on about CoVid and the next new virus, about an imminent invasion by aliens, about the death of sex symbol Raquel Welch, about the war against gas stoves, and, of course, about Greta's new book.

The takeway from all this: If the health and/or environmental threat does not further the globalist agenda, then it's a non-issue.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:00 am

The environmental disaster taking place in Ohio from a Norfolk Southern derailed train should outrage both sides of the political aisle. After the smoke clears, investigations will take place and most likely will show that there is plenty of blame to be shared, including all levels of government and both political parties.

But at the moment, the complete lack of any significant response by the Biden administration is appalling and begs the question why an administration that is hostile to the free market and supports extreme measures to fight climate change is missing in action? Could it be that some of the largest shareholders of the responsible railroad, Norfolk Southern Corporation, are tied to PACs and affiliates that helped fund the 2020 election of the Biden administration? If true, then isn’t it reasonable to conclude that by such donations, these shareholders, through their PACs and affiliates, support the Biden administration?

According to various sources, top shareholders in Norfolk Southern Corp. are the Vanguard Group, and subsidiaries of BlackRock and JP Morgan. Specifically, as of this week, CNNMoney.com lists the Vanguard Group, Inc. as the top shareholder with 7.68%. BlackRock Fund Advisors and JPMorgan Investment Management tie at 4.54% as other top investors.

As of December 31, 2022 Norfolk Southern’s own website lists Vanguard, BlackRock Institutional Trust Company and JP Morgan Asset Management as top shareholders.

Interestingly, the Vanguard Group, JPMorgan Investment, and BlackRock all gave significant sums of money to the Biden 2020 presidential campaign through their PACs and affiliates. OpenSecrets confirms this statement.

The Vanguard Group, through its affiliates and PAC’s, contributed 62.83% to all federal Democrat candidates during the 2020 election cycle and only 37.17% to all federal Republican candidates. It gave a total of $96,988 to Biden’s 2020 presidential campaign and just $7,547 to Trump’s 2020 presidential campaign.

Under JPMorgan Chase and Co., OpenSecrets reports that its affiliates and PACs contributed a total of $1,038,917 to Biden’s 2020 presidential campaign. Donations to President Trump’s 2020 campaign totaled a whopping $236,111. JPMorgan did contribute to both parties’ with the Democrats reaping the most. Under “all Federal candidates,” JP Morgan and affiliates gave 74.83% to Democrats and only 25.17% to Republicans. Also keep in mind that during the 2022 campaign cycle, JPMorgan refused to fund any Republican congressional candidates who objected to the 2020 electoral votes.

Then there is BlackRock, whose founder and CEO, Larry Fink, is a committed and outspoken Democrat. Several news outlets did expose the close relationship that BlackRock has had with prominent Democrats including Obama and Hillary Clinton and now Biden.

According to OpenSecrets, during the 2020 election cycle, BlackRock, through its PACs and affiliates, gave to all federal Democrat candidates a total of 80.64% and only 19.36% to all federal Republican candidates. Regarding Biden, it gave $182,768 to the Biden 2020 presidential campaign. Just $6,170 was contributed to Trump’s 2020 presidential campaign.

Following the 2020 election, Biden put Brian Deese, a BlackRock investment executive to serve as his Director of the National Economic Council. Coincidently, it was confirmed on February 2, 2023, one day before the rail accident, that Brian Deese had vacated his position with the Biden administration.

Biden also picked Adewale Adeyemo, chief of staff to BlackRock’s chief executive, to be the Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Department. Furthermore, Michael Pyle, who was global chief investment strategist at BlackRock, was picked to be Vice President Kamala Harris’ chief economic advisor. According to a Bloomberg article from August 11, 2022, the Biden administration also hired Eric Van Nostrand, a BlackRock managing director of research for sustainable investments and multi asset strategies, to join the Treasury Department as a senior advisor on economic issues related to Russia and Ukraine. But there are also plenty of government officials who have gone to work at BlackRock. Two noteworthy people include Dalia Blass, who was with the SEC and went to BlackRock’s external affairs, and Thomas Donilon who was a national security advisor to Obama and went on to be chairman of BlackRock’s research business.

Interestingly, on January 31, 2023, it was reported that BlackRock increased its ownership in Montrose Environmental Group through a disclosure to the SEC showing it now owns 7.2% of the company.

What does Montrose Environmental Group Inc.(MEG) do? According to its own website:

From testing to remediation to proactive interventions, Montrose provides comprehensive, environmentally-focused solutions that combine the consistency of a national presence with deep, local expertise and regulatory insight.

So what does that entail? MEG does testing and lab services, soil and groundwater remediation, water treatment, and regulatory consulting, to name just a few things. Again, from MEG’s website under soil and groundwater remediation, it states:

Our highly trained and experienced engineers and scientists, environmental and remediation specialists, geologists, hydrogeologists, biologists and environmental compliance specialists work with both public-and private-sector clients, delivering turnkey solutions for large-and small scale investigation and remediation of contaminated sites.

Color me shocked that these will probably be some of the services required by the people affected by this environmental disaster.

Finally, Fink, the CEO of BlackRock, is on record supporting efforts to stop so-called climate change. The New York Times reported that Fink is using his firm’s influence to pressure companies to eliminate greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Given the toxic chemicals released by this train derailment, are Fink and his company prepared to abide by the same standards that he advocates? Then again, Fink claimed that support for climate change policies was about profits. Curious that his company purchased more stocks in MEG right before a railroad in which his company is a large stockowner was involved in an environmental disaster of unimaginable proportions.

These facts point toward a cozy relationship Biden has with some of the major shareholders of Norfolk Southern. Therefore, it’s not a big leap to suppose why the administration has been AWOL. Apparently, it isn’t just the Chinese that might own Biden.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:22 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:21 am

And yes, this DOES belong in Politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HckqNQ9Ci5M

Does anyone want to provide a counterpoint to this? How 'bout you, Vinny?


Did Tucker C show any clips from this news conference? I'm guessing not because it would not fit his mis-information / entertainment / money making show.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/eas ... -palestine

'We will get to the bottom of this' — U.S. EPA administrator addresses resident concerns in East Palestine

https://youtu.be/OEKW_2Zi7rY
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:22 am
Did Tucker C show any clips from this news conference? I'm guessing not because it would not fit his mis-information / entertainment / money making show.
The last time you made a blanket charge of "misinformation" against a conservative news host, you flat-out refused to specify what particular pieces of information were untrue. How about this time?
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:43 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:22 am

Did Tucker C show any clips from this news conference? I'm guessing not because it would not fit his mis-information / entertainment / money making show.

The last time you made a blanket charge of "misinformation" against a conservative news host, you flat-out refused to specify what particular pieces of information were untrue. How about this time?


I believe it was one and the same one?

I would love to do so but I tend to be quite thorough when I do anything, which means its now a few minutes exercise, and other things in my life have priority right now over doing that right now.

But some day I will comply with your request. Hopefully soon.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:56 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:22 am

Did Tucker C show any clips from this news conference? I'm guessing not because it would not fit his mis-information / entertainment / money making show.

The last time you made a blanket charge of "misinformation" against a conservative news host, you flat-out refused to specify what particular pieces of information were untrue. How about this time?


However just spending a few minutes doing an internet search rapidly brings up these recent items:

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tucker- ... fety-rant/

Tucker Carlson’s Unhinged, Dishonest Airline Safety Rant
Ben Schlappig
2 days ago



https://timewarnerent.com/tucker-carlso ... not-video/

Tucker Carlson Claims Misinformation Can Be True (It Can’t) and That It’s a New Word (It’s Not) (Video)


From my brief exposures to him and things like this he does not seem to be a source that should be used to prove any point.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:21 am

I'm not asking about whether you can find an article out there somewhere that challenges something that Tucker Carlson has at some time said. I'm asking you to identify the particular pieces of information cited in this video that you claim to be "misinformation."

This video has nothing to do with airline safety. It is about the Ohio disaster, and in particular, the glaring disconnect between the administration's response to this disaster and its purported (feigned) commitment to ecology and public health.

Do you have any rebuttal to the particular points made in this video, or is this just another example of "Shoot first, think later?"
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:58 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:21 am

I'm not asking about whether you can find an article out there somewhere that challenges something that Tucker Carlson has at some time said. I'm asking you to identify the particular pieces of information cited in this video that you claim to be "misinformation."

This video has nothing to do with airline safety. It is about the Ohio disaster, and in particular, the glaring disconnect between the administration's response to this disaster and its purported (feigned) commitment to ecology and public health.

Do you have any rebuttal to the particular points made in this video, or is this just another example of "Shoot first, think later?"


I would if I had the time to just concentrate on that video and do what you request.

When you initially sent it I put it on but it was competing with the Celtics game I had on at the time and was also watching. Therefore it got less than my full concentration while it was on.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:08 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:58 am

I would if I had the time to just concentrate on that video and do what you request.
I'm not asking you to research anything. Only to state what particular facts you contend to be "misinformation."

Why are you needing "time" to do this?

Didn't you think it was important to listen to, and carefully consider, the video before coming out publicly with the charge that its contents were "misinformation?"

Is it because the conclusory charge of "misinformation" was all that mattered to you? And that you now need additional time to figure out a position that you can defend?
Last edited by Maddy on Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:08 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:58 am


I would if I had the time to just concentrate on that video and do what you request.



I'm not asking you to research anything. Only to state what particular facts you contend to be "misinformation."

Why are you needing "time" to do this?

Is it because the conclusory charge of "misinformation" was all that mattered to you? And that you now need additional time to figure out a position that you can defend?


I need to listen to it and give it my full focus and make my notes as I am listening.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 am

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowit ... Y_Borowitz

Tucker Carlson Fears That Leaked Texts of Him Telling Truth Will Kill His Brand

By Andy Borowitz

February 17, 2023

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Newly surfaced texts showing Tucker Carlson telling the truth threaten to damage his brand irrevocably, the Fox News host fears.

After publication of the texts, which indicate that Carlson knew Donald J. Trump’s claims of widespread election fraud were false, the anchor, concerned that his reputation for mendacity had been permanently tainted, spiralled into despondency.

“Tucker is in a very dark place right now,” a Fox News colleague said. “To be unmasked as an honest person is literally his worst nightmare.”

In an emotional appearance on Fox, Carlson begged his viewers not to “rush to judgment” based on a few “ill-advised texts that give off the unfortunate appearance of accuracy.”

“A couple of years ago, in a moment of weakness, I slipped and told the truth,” Carlson, choking back tears, said. “I plead with you not to judge me by this shameful episode but by my entire body of work.”
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:56 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 am
I need to listen to it and give it my full focus and make my notes as I am listening.
I'm not asking that you remember everything that was stated in that video. Just state what pieces of information caused you to conclude that the video contained "misinformation."
Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 am
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowit ... Y_Borowitz
Tucker Carlson Fears That Leaked Texts of Him Telling Truth Will Kill His Brand
By Andy Borowitz
February 17, 2023
So that's you answer? That somebody at the New Yorker thinks Tucker Carlson is dishonest?
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:04 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:56 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 am

I need to listen to it and give it my full focus and make my notes as I am listening.


I'm not asking that you remember everything that was stated in that video. Just state what pieces of information caused you to conclude that the video contained "misinformation."

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 am
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowit ... Y_Borowitz
Tucker Carlson Fears That Leaked Texts of Him Telling Truth Will Kill His Brand
By Andy Borowitz
February 17, 2023


So that's you answer? That somebody at the New Yorker thinks Tucker Carlson is dishonest?


I'm not remembering anything from that video because as I stated at the same time I was playing I was also watching the Celtics game. When I realized it was just a continuation of his MO (stating a lot of words to paint a misleading picture) I stopped watching.

Therefore to give you any specifics I would have to give my full focus and not a distracted one.

Is there any (credible) source that considers Carlson honest?
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:48 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:04 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:56 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:19 am
I need to listen to it and give it my full focus and make my notes as I am listening.
I'm not asking that you remember everything that was stated in that video. Just state what pieces of information caused you to conclude that the video contained "misinformation."
Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 am
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowit ... Y_Borowitz
Tucker Carlson Fears That Leaked Texts of Him Telling Truth Will Kill His Brand
By Andy Borowitz
February 17, 2023
So that's you answer? That somebody at the New Yorker thinks Tucker Carlson is dishonest?
I'm not remembering anything from that video because as I stated at the same time I was playing I was also watching the Celtics game. When I realized it was just a continuation of his MO (stating a lot of words to paint a misleading picture) I stopped watching.

Therefore to give you any specifics I would have to give my full focus and not a distracted one.

Is there any (credible) source that considers Carlson honest?
Define credible and define honest - by what/whose standards that we absolutists (not relativists) would likely agree upon.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Xan » Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:55 pm

Regardless, Vinny, you and Maddy are just talking past each other. If you're going to listen to the video and respond to her questions, then please do so, and if not, just say you're not. But it really isn't fair to say the video is an example of bad stuff without being able to explain why.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Maddy » Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:16 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:48 pm

Define credible and define honest - by what/whose standards that we absolutists (not relativists) would likely agree upon.
All the more reason, in this day and age, to show your work. Thankfully, the concept of ideas supported by facts, and facts supported by references (or by a cogent argument) is still the norm on the PP forum. It's always been pretty unique that way.

This, by the way, gets at the heart of my disdain toward AI-generated "summaries" as a substitute for facts supported by references to authority. If the last two years have taught us anything, it's how the far the narrative makers can run with the ball when nobody is allowed to scrutinize their conclusions.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:38 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:48 pm



Define credible and define honest - by what/whose standards that we absolutists (not relativists) would likely agree upon.


I could give you the dictionary definitions.

We all have our own judgments of what is credible and what is honest.

There is a usually a consensus of who is a credible and and an honest person and who is not.

A good working definition would be to ask yourself of the person in question is would I risk anything of value by placing my trust in this person.
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by vnatale » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:41 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:55 pm

Regardless, Vinny, you and Maddy are just talking past each other. If you're going to listen to the video and respond to her questions, then please do so, and if not, just say you're not. But it really isn't fair to say the video is an example of bad stuff without being able to explain why.


I made my initial comment regarding the video and stated that I did not give it my full attention upon first watching it and am not yet in a position to give it my full attention. All the rest has been me basically giving responses.

I also did say that with the limited attention I was giving to the video that I got enough out of it to realize it was Tucker Carlson being up to his usual tricks. That is my explanation as to why.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Xan
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Re: Ohio Disaster

Post by Xan » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:55 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:41 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:55 pm
Regardless, Vinny, you and Maddy are just talking past each other. If you're going to listen to the video and respond to her questions, then please do so, and if not, just say you're not. But it really isn't fair to say the video is an example of bad stuff without being able to explain why.
I made my initial comment regarding the video and stated that I did not give it my full attention upon first watching it and am not yet in a position to give it my full attention. All the rest has been me basically giving responses.

I also did say that with the limited attention I was giving to the video that I got enough out of it to realize it was Tucker Carlson being up to his usual tricks. That is my explanation as to why.

That isn't explaining why; it's a tautology. And there's no time limit on a reply: if you're not ready to answer yet, it's okay to just wait until you are.
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