The Fourth Branch of Government

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Cortopassi
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:05 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:31 am

Sounds about right...good for advertisers though.
Can't wait till these ads are over. Seems, here in IL, the major focus is abortion.

If you go by the ads, all Dems are willing to rip the baby out and kill it a day before normal delivery, and all Republicans want every baby born, regardless of who impregnated the woman.

Maybe it's really somewhere in the middle, right????? I'm sure there's a minority of each party that would agree with the above positions, but most are somewhere in the middle.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:07 pm

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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by vnatale » Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:17 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:05 am

Kbg wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:31 am


Sounds about right...good for advertisers though.



Can't wait till these ads are over. Seems, here in IL, the major focus is abortion.

If you go by the ads, all Dems are willing to rip the baby out and kill it a day before normal delivery, and all Republicans want every baby born, regardless of who impregnated the woman.

Maybe it's really somewhere in the middle, right????? I'm sure there's a minority of each party that would agree with the above positions, but most are somewhere in the middle.


I've seen almost no ads.

I start off my day with C-Span's Washington Journal. No ads are going to be there other than the ones they are discussing.

Then I switch to YES (Yankees Entertainment Sports Network). Then the MLB Network. No ads on either of those stations.

Then the only other thing I have on is whatever stations post season baseball games have been on and the Boston Celtics station.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by jalanlong » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:54 pm

Even though polls show that Texas elections are not that close, the ads are still hot and heavy here with every Republican saying that their Democratic opponent is for open borders, gun confiscation and turning Texas into "Biden style California" The Democrats are hitting hard on the abortion front which has weirdly allowed their ads to take the position of their party being the party of "freedom" and "bodily autonomy" not even a year after most of them believed people who declined vaccinations should lose their jobs.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by jalanlong » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:56 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:05 am
Kbg wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:31 am

Sounds about right...good for advertisers though.
Can't wait till these ads are over. Seems, here in IL, the major focus is abortion.

If you go by the ads, all Dems are willing to rip the baby out and kill it a day before normal delivery, and all Republicans want every baby born, regardless of who impregnated the woman.

Maybe it's really somewhere in the middle, right????? I'm sure there's a minority of each party that would agree with the above positions, but most are somewhere in the middle.
I am not sure you are right about that. I really have no opinion on abortion myself. But whenever I quiz someone on their position they generally hold to one of those two positions you listed. A month ago I actually asked a Democrat are you in favor of abortion up until 1 day before delivery and their answer was "Well I dont like it but I have to be if I am going to be pro-choice."
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:01 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:54 pm
The Democrats are hitting hard on the abortion front which has weirdly allowed their ads to take the position of their party being the party of "freedom" and "bodily autonomy" not even a year after most of them believed people who declined vaccinations should lose their jobs.
The whole my body, my choice thing -- had a recent incident when driving through WI to see my daughter in Minnesota. A pickup truck had a long anti-Biden / Covid is a hoax / vaccine is dangerous type of saying on the back window, (I do not recall the exact wording,) but the end of it had a picture of a needle and syringe, and the words "My body, my choice."

Nice hypocrisy. Yeah, I know it's a life vs. a vaccine, I just found it interesting the wording was basically identical.

The gist is neither party has got it all right. Or all wrong.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:28 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:01 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:54 pm
The Democrats are hitting hard on the abortion front which has weirdly allowed their ads to take the position of their party being the party of "freedom" and "bodily autonomy" not even a year after most of them believed people who declined vaccinations should lose their jobs.
The whole my body, my choice thing -- had a recent incident when driving through WI to see my daughter in Minnesota. A pickup truck had a long anti-Biden / Covid is a hoax / vaccine is dangerous type of saying on the back window, (I do not recall the exact wording,) but the end of it had a picture of a needle and syringe, and the words "My body, my choice."

Nice hypocrisy. Yeah, I know it's a life vs. a vaccine, I just found it interesting the wording was basically identical.

The gist is neither party has got it all right. Or all wrong.
I think the term "my body, my choice" is not a good one and is very misleading for an abortion discussion regardless of which side of the debate one is on (but, is there ever really an honest non-political discussion on the topic?}. It neglects a major fact that there is at least one other effected body, a.k.a. human being, the unborn child, and probably more, e.g. the father, other family members and friends.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by joypog » Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:37 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:28 pm
I think the term "my body, my choice" is not a good one and is very misleading for an abortion discussion regardless of which side of the debate one is on (but, is there ever really an honest non-political discussion on the topic?}. It neglects a major fact that there is at least one other effected body, a.k.a. human being, the unborn child, and probably more, e.g. the father, other family members and friends.
As we've learned from Georgia, often it's the father who is encouraging the procedure.

As abortion abolitionists come in with their draconian laws, I'm starting to wonder whether the father of the child should also be punished to the same extent to whatever the propose for the mother. The father chose to partake in making a new life and thus shares culpability in the termination that otherwise could have never happened.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:16 pm

Holy thread drift, Batman!
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:35 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:16 pm
Holy thread drift, Batman!
Yeah. For whatever reason I got an email note on this thread about a new post (I've not looked at it ever prior) and it brought me to the top of page two. Without me seeing it was a completely different starting point!
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by jalanlong » Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:52 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:28 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:01 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:54 pm
The Democrats are hitting hard on the abortion front which has weirdly allowed their ads to take the position of their party being the party of "freedom" and "bodily autonomy" not even a year after most of them believed people who declined vaccinations should lose their jobs.
The whole my body, my choice thing -- had a recent incident when driving through WI to see my daughter in Minnesota. A pickup truck had a long anti-Biden / Covid is a hoax / vaccine is dangerous type of saying on the back window, (I do not recall the exact wording,) but the end of it had a picture of a needle and syringe, and the words "My body, my choice."

Nice hypocrisy. Yeah, I know it's a life vs. a vaccine, I just found it interesting the wording was basically identical.

The gist is neither party has got it all right. Or all wrong.
I think the term "my body, my choice" is not a good one and is very misleading for an abortion discussion regardless of which side of the debate one is on (but, is there ever really an honest non-political discussion on the topic?}. It neglects a major fact that there is at least one other effected body, a.k.a. human being, the unborn child, and probably more, e.g. the father, other family members and friends.
Would you consider "my body my choice" for seat belts or drug use? Theoretically there is a downstream impact to any decision you make.

Your point is valid though because I was told not getting vaccinated was not my choice because it affected the community at large, not just myself.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Maddy » Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:49 am

A federal district court judge in Texas just struck down Biden's student loan forgiveness program on grounds that it constituted an impermissible exercise of legislative power:

"Whether the Program constitutes good public policy is not the role of this Court to determine. Still, no one can plausibly deny that it is either one of the largest delegations of legislative power to the executive branch, or one of the largest exercises of legislative power without congressional authority in the history of the United States."

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... f-program/

EDIT:

I am certainly no expert on administrative law, but I did take a course on it during my second year of law school. All in all, it was far too "fuzzy" an area of law for my taste (much like constitutional law, where the desired result too often dictated the legal analysis). The one thing I do recall very vividly was the overarching principle that the power of agencies--and this would include everything from the EPA to the IRS--derives its legitimacy entirely from some express congressional delegation of legislative authority.

Strangely, I don't recall any discussion of the issue of executive orders during that time (late 1980s), which would suggest to me that if executive orders were indeed being issued as frequently as they are now, they were, at least for the most part, being reserved for matters at least arguably within the executive sphere.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:49 am

A federal district court judge in Texas just struck down Biden's student loan forgiveness program on grounds that it constituted an impermissible exercise of legislative power:

"Whether the Program constitutes good public policy is not the role of this Court to determine. Still, no one can plausibly deny that it is either one of the largest delegations of legislative power to the executive branch, or one of the largest exercises of legislative power without congressional authority in the history of the United States."

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... f-program/




Does this mean it is only on hold in Texas? Or, in the entire country?
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Xan » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 am
Maddy wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:49 am
A federal district court judge in Texas just struck down Biden's student loan forgiveness program on grounds that it constituted an impermissible exercise of legislative power:

"Whether the Program constitutes good public policy is not the role of this Court to determine. Still, no one can plausibly deny that it is either one of the largest delegations of legislative power to the executive branch, or one of the largest exercises of legislative power without congressional authority in the history of the United States."

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... f-program/

Does this mean it is only on hold in Texas? Or, in the entire country?
It would mean the whole country, I believe.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Maddy » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:38 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 am
Does this mean it is only on hold in Texas? Or, in the entire country?
Well, this was a federal district court, which is a federal trial court--analogous to a superior court on the state side. As such, its ruling has no precedential value and is binding only on the parties before it.

The ruling will most certainly be appealed to the federal circuit court, the decision of which WILL have precedential value within the geographic boundaries of that circuit, and will stand as persuasive (but not mandatory) authority in other circuits.
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:50 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 am

Maddy wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:49 am

A federal district court judge in Texas just struck down Biden's student loan forgiveness program on grounds that it constituted an impermissible exercise of legislative power:

"Whether the Program constitutes good public policy is not the role of this Court to determine. Still, no one can plausibly deny that it is either one of the largest delegations of legislative power to the executive branch, or one of the largest exercises of legislative power without congressional authority in the history of the United States."

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-ba ... f-program/




Does this mean it is only on hold in Texas? Or, in the entire country?


It would mean the whole country, I believe.


In this particular case that would have been a good thing.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:50 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:38 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:59 am

Does this mean it is only on hold in Texas? Or, in the entire country?

Well, this was a federal district court, which is a federal trial court--analogous to a superior court on the state side. As such, its ruling has no precedential value and is binding only on the parties before it.

The ruling will most certainly be appealed to the federal circuit court, the decision of which WILL have precedential value within the geographic boundaries of that circuit, and will stand as persuasive (but not mandatory) authority in other circuits.


Hopefully it gets the same consistent ruling throughout.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Fourth Branch of Government

Post by Kbg » Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:55 pm

I think student loans are probably going to the Supreme Court for resolution. A couple of districts are involved now.

To me, it seems a huge step on Congressional powers delineated in the constitution. Oh, what I would give for a Congress that would take on the Executive in a bi-partisan way. I kinda feel the framers didn't fully anticipate the strength of parties and the extent that Congress would line up with whatever the President's "agenda" is.
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