Trump reelection bid

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If Trump announced he was going to run in 2024 would you vote for him knowing what you know today?

Yes
3
15%
No
17
85%
 
Total votes: 20
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doodle
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Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:17 am

Sheer curiosity...
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by boglerdude » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:51 pm

I'm forced to vote for whomever merely claims that martial law will never be used again. The people who want to be locked in and handed monopoly money have all gone to the Dems.

Hopefully DeSantis.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:06 pm

I was NOT expecting the result that I am seeing so far .....
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by boglerdude » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:11 pm

Why, who here has been praising Trump. Also the poll question could be clearer, Trump vs who. Kamala?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:24 pm

Primaries are up first, so I think the poll most reasonably is asking about that. Sounds like everybody here has somebody else they like better. But, could he still sneak through if everybody doesn't agree on who else?

In which case in the general it's the "lesser of two evils" question.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:35 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:11 pm

Why, who here has been praising Trump. Also the poll question could be clearer, Trump vs who. Kamala?


No one currently. But he definitely has had his fans here.

So the question would be for those who voted for him once or twice .... why not this time around?

What did he do and when for him to finally lose your vote?

Again, for the record, I've never voted for Trump and for the first time in my voting career since 1972 I did NOT vote the Democratic presidential candidate. I've been anti-Biden for over 30 years now.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:19 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:35 pm
No one currently. But he definitely has had his fans here.
Those people have all been banned from this forum. And... I wonder why no one will vote yes on the poll 8)
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:30 am

It may not matter. If Trump loyalists are installed in enough swing states, electoral votes could be blocked by non-certification, or competing elector slates at the state level.
If enough of this happens, the Electoral College may not be in a position to award 270 or more votes to either candidate. That throws the election into the House who votes one vote per state delegation. Under this scenario Trump overwhelmingly wins based on the significant House Republican majority (again, by delegation i.e. CA and NY are equal to WY and AL).
This is all provided for in the Constitution itself where a literal connection between popular vote and electoral vote is not provided. And yes, it would be a crisis, and involve a lot of litigation in courts at all levels of the judiciary. And yes, this would only be a Plan B if he didn't win the traditional way.

Outlandish theory? Impossible? Show me why.

Trump endorsed AZ gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake has already made it clear she will not certify a non-Trump win on fraud grounds. She wouldn't have certified the last election either, so she says.
Could be interesting if Trump loyalists win in AZ, MI and PA, maybe a few other places too, both at the gubernatorial and state legislature levels.

BTW, John Quincy Adams was elected in this way in 1824. The electoral college vote was inconclusive. No majority due to a split among four candidates. So the final vote was by state delegation and this resulted in Adams' win.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:17 am

Trump vs. any Squad member https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squad ... _Congress)

Trump vs. Pelosi

Trump vs. Schumer

Trump vs. a Communist or Marxist

Trump vs. any of the leading Democrat candidates
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 24-ranked/

Like those upstream said, it depends on who might run against Trump, and, if we are in a lesser of two evils situation. Drain the swamp or fill it to the brim? I just hope some decent candidates come forth from both parties, and hopefully, they won't be lawyers.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:40 am

Okay, I'll play.

Trump is highly flawed, but absent a better anti-establishment candidate I'd probably vote for him.

I could be open to DeSantis, but some people claim that he's now being groomed by the GOPe, so I guess we'll see. A lot can happen between now and next week never mind November 2024.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Kbg » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:58 am

Serious question for the anti-establishment crowd...why is an anti-establishment candidate a good thing?

Follow on question (and probably what I'm more interested in reading) What are the essential elements of the establishment? (Who are they, what do they represent, why are they bad?)

My experience in asking this question in person is that most people can't respond to it in any specific way and 9/10 times they just want to give the middle finger to something or someone. Possibly emotionally satisfying, but how does this lead to better government?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:32 am

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:26 am
glennds wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:30 am

Trump endorsed AZ gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake has already made it clear she will not certify a non-Trump win on fraud grounds.
Please provide a link to corroborate this statement. Google search was not productive.
No problem Pug. For context follow this trail:

Lake declares she would not have certified 2020 election: https://www.insider.com/arizona-governo ... ts-2021-10

Lake alleges fraud in her own primary win, about ten days ago. Her allegations of fraud came in before the results were in: https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/k ... y-evidence. In one press conference she alleged that she was ahead in the polls, so if the final vote results were different than the polls, it would be a pretty good indication of fraud. I recall the comments were made to a gathering of reporters at her campaign headquarters the day of or day before election day. If you search the local Phoenix AZ stations on YouTube you can probably find it.

Regarding her promise of what she will do in 2024 if elected Governor, it's not a print comment. Her statements come from campaign rallies leading up to the primary. It was a campaign promise to voters i.e. "you can count on me, I will not certify any election if there is a hint of fraud". Go to YouTube and look for videos of her campaign rallies and you will find this campaign promise. If I get some time later today, I'll look through a few and see if I can find a soundbite for you.

Here's another article that dissects some of this, not just Kari Lake and Mark Finchem in AZ, but also Doug Mastriano's position should he win in PA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... legrounds/
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Jack Jones » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:15 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:35 pm
So the question would be for those who voted for him once or twice .... why not this time around?

What did he do and when for him to finally lose your vote?
I didn't vote for him, but my beef is that he had his chance. He got his opportunity to drain the swamp. Let's give someone else a shot.

This guy would have gotten the job done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPXjbk3GtiQ&t=6319s

Did anyone here vote for him?
Last edited by Jack Jones on Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:20 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:49 pm
Okay thanks. Whether or not we believe there was fraud in 2020, the reality is that unless the country can be assured that elections are legit and FULLY AUDITABLE, we are going to have a real problem going forward.
Pug wisdom right there
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:38 pm

Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:58 am
Serious question for the anti-establishment crowd...why is an anti-establishment candidate a good thing?

Follow on question (and probably what I'm more interested in reading) What are the essential elements of the establishment? (Who are they, what do they represent, why are they bad?)

My experience in asking this question in person is that most people can't respond to it in any specific way and 9/10 times they just want to give the middle finger to something or someone. Possibly emotionally satisfying, but how does this lead to better government?
Just off the top of my head...

Anti-establishment candidates give us real choices instead of the illusion of choice presented by the UniParty establishment. Anti-establishment candidates are more likely to work in the best interests of the people that voted for them. Even if anti-establishment candidates don't get elected, by gaining a sizable percentage of the vote they may be able to present a credible threat that the UniParty has to at least take into consideration.

The establishment is, at a minimum, the UniParty (majority of D & R parties), the upper echelons of federal agencies, armed forces, etc. and all of the people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo (lobbyists, Wall Street, corporate media, etc.). They represent large corporate and special interests and the globalist ruling class. The current establishment is bad because they don't act in the best interests of ordinary Americans. The ruling class reaps the benefits of policy decisions while ordinary Americans suffer. They keep people divided with wedge issues, chaff, and countermeasures.

It might be a pipe dream, but I would simply like to see:

- A government that represents the people its supposed to serve instead of global corporations, special interests, and the elites. Main Street instead of Wall Street.

- A government that follows the rule of law and is held accountable when it doesn't. Individuals included.

- A free, fair, transparent and auditable election process, uninfluenced by the two dominant political parties.

It's clear that UniParty establishment candidates are not going to get us there.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:06 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:38 pm

It might be a pipe dream, but I would simply like to see:

- A government that represents the people its supposed to serve instead of global corporations, special interests, and the elites. Main Street instead of Wall Street.

- A government that follows the rule of law and is held accountable when it doesn't. Individuals included.

- A free, fair, transparent and auditable election process, uninfluenced by the two dominant political parties.

It's clear that UniParty establishment candidates are not going to get us there.
Does Mr. Trump get us closer to any of these goals? He might be anti-establishment, but if anything he's leading us further away from each of those bullet points.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 pm

joypog wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:06 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:38 pm

It might be a pipe dream, but I would simply like to see:

- A government that represents the people its supposed to serve instead of global corporations, special interests, and the elites. Main Street instead of Wall Street.

- A government that follows the rule of law and is held accountable when it doesn't. Individuals included.

- A free, fair, transparent and auditable election process, uninfluenced by the two dominant political parties.

It's clear that UniParty establishment candidates are not going to get us there.
Does Mr. Trump get us closer to any of these goals? He might be anti-establishment, but if anything he's leading us further away from each of those bullet points.
He’s not the knight in shining armor that he wants to be. But if he helps break the grip of the UniParty then he will have made a valuable contribution. He has some big flaws and made mistakes, but he was also sabotaged from within and unfairly maligned.

It’s unreasonable to expect one person to turn everything around, it will take several election cycles to do that and there will need to be support in congress, etc. As part of a larger movement I disagree that he has taken us away from the points I mentioned.

The guy has given a voice to a lot of people that have been forgotten and got over 74 million votes in the last election. Looking around, who else is capable of doing that?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:46 pm

joypog wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:06 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:38 pm

It might be a pipe dream, but I would simply like to see:

- A government that represents the people its supposed to serve instead of global corporations, special interests, and the elites. Main Street instead of Wall Street.

- A government that follows the rule of law and is held accountable when it doesn't. Individuals included.

- A free, fair, transparent and auditable election process, uninfluenced by the two dominant political parties.

It's clear that UniParty establishment candidates are not going to get us there.
Does Mr. Trump get us closer to any of these goals? He might be anti-establishment, but if anything he's leading us further away from each of those bullet points.
Agree with everything on the list however in my estimation Trump is not only not up to the task, he is undermines any faith I have in executive leadership because he is perhaps the biggest conman and liar I have ever witnessed.

So this is ironic, I am in complete agreement with Pug but genuinely confused why he has faith in Trump to accomplish any of this given his overwhelming personality defects that disqualify him from being entrusted with any governmental power.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:35 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 pm
The guy has given a voice to a lot of people that have been forgotten and got over 74 million votes in the last election. Looking around, who else is capable of doing that?
Joe Biden.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:44 pm

joypog wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:35 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 pm
The guy has given a voice to a lot of people that have been forgotten and got over 74 million votes in the last election. Looking around, who else is capable of doing that?
Joe Biden.
I meant what other anti-establishment candidate, but you knew that.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:47 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:44 pm
joypog wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:35 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:39 pm
The guy has given a voice to a lot of people that have been forgotten and got over 74 million votes in the last election. Looking around, who else is capable of doing that?
Joe Biden.
I meant what other anti-establishment candidate, but you knew that.
I know...one of my pet peeves is the 74 mil voters trope - when used to discount the 81 mil who voted for Biden - so I couldn't help myself when triggered. >:D
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Kbg » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:37 pm

fp,

Great response. I think I'm near 100% in agreement. I've got a different take on how to get us there though. Term limits.

My observation is that anti-establishment turns establishment fairly quickly. Whether you are a Maga or Squad/Berniesta, they're both batting for special interests by and large...just different special interests (wrapped in the appropriate conservative/liberal talking points of course).

I like to think this is a good government feature not a bug...if you've spent anytime in Washington DC and you don't understand compromise and majority gathering is the only way to get anything done you aren't going to get anything done. Reagan and Clinton were smart enough to know that, Trump and Biden, uh, no. But even if they were...the other side seems to be more interested in "blocking the agenda" than doing what might be good for the people these days. I find the entire system highly narcissistic and interested only in their party constituents vs. we the people.

When professional politicians become the norm the incentive system gets completely out of whack for them, and frankly, for us.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by boglerdude » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:32 pm

1) Term limits - eg Biden has worked out dozens of ways to conceal bribes over decades as a senator. If you churn politicians, that breaks up the trust they could build over time with bribers "donors and lobbyists"

2) Ranked-choice voting - As expected, blocked by DeSantis and Newsom. If your 1st choice candidate doesn't get enough votes, the vote is transferred to the 2nd choice.

3) Paper ballots and voter ID

edit1: Proportional Representation Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Kbg » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:54 am

boglerdude wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:32 pm
1) Term limits - eg Biden has worked out dozens of ways to conceal bribes over decades as a senator. If you churn politicians, that breaks up the trust they could build over time with bribers "donors and lobbyists"

2) Ranked-choice voting - As expected, blocked by DeSantis and Newsom. If your 1st choice candidate doesn't get enough votes, the vote is transferred to the 2nd choice.

3) Paper ballots and voter ID

edit1: Proportional Representation Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
#1, yep

#2, yep

#3, paper no, voter ID yes, single day voting also no...rationale: we should make voting easier not harder for real people. Built properly, electronic voting would be extremely hard to hack if not impossible. Safer than paper. BITCOIN lovers, step in here please. Your moment to shine/brag up the technology.
Last edited by Kbg on Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:26 am

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:49 pm
Okay thanks. Whether or not we believe there was fraud in 2020, the reality is that unless the country can be assured that elections are legit and FULLY AUDITABLE, we are going to have a real problem going forward.
Loss of faith in media and news - check
Loss of faith in election integrity - check (at least for a material % of the country)
Loss of faith in the courts and rule of law in general - next shoe to drop? If yes, then what?
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