stuper1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:33 pm
Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:44 pm
Not going to do Covid 2 on this thread. Appreciate Krieg’s writing. The S men are factually incorrect, lying and/or totally deluded.
All we’re doing here now is providing a platform for Russian or hard right American propaganda. I’m out.
#NAFOfella
I'm an American, not Russian, and not even close to being hard right, unless being a non-voting Libertarian is considered hard right these days. Just answer one question: if Russia was pushing a defensive alliance up to our Canadian or Mexican border, would we take it lying down or would we push back? Especially if Russia had promised 33 years ago not to do such a thing, which was what the US did when the Soviet Union broke up in 1989.
My really last post on this thread.
This a standard Russian propaganda line and has been around since Putin began his "Journey to Restore Russian Greatness."
Question 1: Why did every country up to Russia's border want to be in NATO? Answer: Because they have a historically imperialist power on their borders that has offensively attacked them going back three centuries with the latest being in current memory. Not to mention what Russians did to their people and culture during 40+ years of absolute tyranny. If you're a libertarian...I'm calling you out here, period. You do not act intelligently or faithfully on your core beliefs.
And now I'd like to pose a question to the thread's Russian propaganda peddlers which I expect an answer to.
Why has Canada and Mexico not sought "defensive" treaties against the US? In the 1700 and early 1800s we attacked both of them and peeled off a good chunk of Mexico in fact. Other than typical squabbles, after the Canadian US border was settled
it has been defenseless on both sides for OVER 100 YEARS. Anyone who knows some US/Mexican history knows it's a pretty ugly one from a US actions perspective.
And yet, the US/Mexican border is largely the same as the Canadian one.
Finally, did Russia keep it's agreement? Also, is Ukraine and Belorussia in Ukraine?
But thanks for the hypothetical...Lenin and Trotsky would be proud.
Personally, for most things of western and eastern orientation, I don't think much matters prior to WW2. Post WW2 set up the modern world as we know it...and I'll match the US and NATOs record against the Russian/Warsaw Pact one any day.
One of the most trying times, philosophically and morally, which yielded some very serious internal policy and operational debates in the US military and intelligence establishments was how in the world do you deal with and fight an enemy that is utterly without morality?
I like to think God granted the U.S. a gift in George Frost Kennan who suggested a way that did not involve WWW3...hold the line, skirmish when forced to and eventually the system will implode on itself. Here's to hoping Ukraine wins, Russia loses and the remnants of communist Russia are finally expunged from the world we live in. While I'm hardcore anti-Russian government as one could probably get, I do hope the Russian people will one day get the government they've wanted for 100+ years.
I was a very young pup in the biz during the collapse of the FSU and I know personally what was felt and thought at the time.
Yep, some high fiving self-congratulations was happening. We had won the Cold War.
There was nothing but hope that Russia would join the world community of nations and it really looked like it would be joining the family of democratic nations there for a bit. But unfortunately, like our post-WW2 predecessors, we learned another communist/dictator had taken over the place. Or was it Michael Corleone, hard to tell.