Biden a Disaster?

User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by Maddy » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:31 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:46 pm
I mean the majority of the civil libertarian issues relating to vaccines/COVID are at the state/local/school-district level. Not nationally. I'm not saying there's nothing federally, but it's not my primary concern as it pertains to unchecked federal power and violence towards people.
I'm afraid I'm not following. I can't think of an example of unchecked federal power that is more glaring than what we've seen in relation to CoVid. From vaccine passports to travel restrictions to domestic terrorist lists (for simply questioning the "science"), there seems to be nothing that the federal government believes it can't do.

And mandated vaccines (think federal workers, military, Fauci's threat the day before yesterday re a generalized federal vaccine mandate) stands as perhaps the most shocking intrusion into bodily autonomy ("violence toward people?") that we've seen in our lifetimes. I think of myself as very much a civil libertarian (a "classical liberal"), but when it comes to the details, you and I seem to see things very differently.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Xan » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:54 pm

Bodily autonomy is great and all, but why would you use it in order to ensure that you remain as dangerous to yourself and others as you can?
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:10 pm

Neither freedom nor bodily autonomy means a thing if they only apply when the government thinks you need them.

I suppose reasonable minds can differ with respect to whether freedom and bodily autonomy are desirable things, but you can't very well claim them as values if you're okay with the government deciding when, and under what circumstances, you get them.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Xan » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:45 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:10 pm
Neither freedom nor bodily autonomy means a thing if they only apply when the government thinks you need them.

I suppose reasonable minds can differ with respect to whether freedom and bodily autonomy are desirable things, but you can't very well claim them as values if you're okay with the government deciding when, and under what circumstances, you get them.
You definitely have a point. But when I say the 19th century South had a point about state vs federal power, I'm told that they made the mistake of tying state's rights to slavery, and so pragmatically state's rights is an instant loser because it's been tied to slavery ever since.

You might want to be careful tying bodily autonomy too closely to remaining a vector for disease.
SomeDude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:45 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by SomeDude » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:03 pm

D1984 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm
Also, if we are so "soft on crime" and doing so results in supposedly soaring crime rates, how do you explain how, say, Scandinavia has lower violent crime rates than us despite sentences that are a fraction of ours and prisons that are so "soft" and non-harsh by American standards they are almost unbelievable to American eyes?
It's a nice attempt at satire/trolling D, but there's no way anyone on this forum is going to take this question seriously and fall for the trick. I mean.....a person would have to have an IQ under 80 to not immediately understand the major obvious differences between the US and Scandinavian countries. There is no way anyone on this forum is so stupid they will fall for this trolling attempt.

It was a nice try though. Imagine someone being so brainless to think the relative criminal justices systems between between the US and Scandinavia prove anything about crime levels!
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:09 pm

You might want to be careful tying bodily autonomy too closely to remaining a vector for disease.
I don't find the "vector" argument persuasive. By the "vector argument," I mean the argument that this virus is such a dire threat to humanity that it justifies the curtailment of basic freedoms.

People and bugs coexist. In fact, we harbor more viruses and bacteria than we have cells in our bodies. Communicable illnesses are a fact of life, and they always will be unless you want to live in a bubble. And as communicable diseases go, CoVid-19 is one of the more benign ones.

Interesting, isn't it, that nobody dared suggest that gay men should stop having anal sex--even when the predictable outcome was to inflict a truly deadly disease upon large numbers of other people. Their freedom to engage in risky sexual behavior--and thus to promote a public health disaster--was deemed so fundamental that the law actually gave infected individuals license to knowingly and deliberately transmit the virus to others.

I notice, also, that nobody has dared suggest curtailing the rights of the obese, whose habits continue to make them one of the principal vectors of the virus.

And then there's the fundamental rights of the hundreds of thousands of infected individuals who are pouring through the open southern border.

Some rights are sacrosanct, and for the moment, it ain't yours.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Xan » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:48 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:09 pm
You might want to be careful tying bodily autonomy too closely to remaining a vector for disease.
I don't find the "vector" argument persuasive. By the "vector argument," I mean the argument that this virus is such a dire threat to humanity that it justifies the curtailment of basic freedoms.

People and bugs coexist. In fact, we harbor more viruses and bacteria than we have cells in our bodies. Communicable illnesses are a fact of life, and they always will be unless you want to live in a bubble. And as communicable diseases go, CoVid-19 is one of the more benign ones.

Interesting, isn't it, that nobody dared suggest that gay men should stop having anal sex--even when the predictable outcome was to inflict a truly deadly disease upon large numbers of other people. Their freedom to engage in risky sexual behavior--and thus to promote a public health disaster--was deemed so fundamental that the law actually gave infected individuals license to knowingly and deliberately transmit the virus to others.

I notice, also, that nobody has dared suggest curtailing the rights of the obese, whose habits continue to make them one of the principal vectors of the virus.

And then there's the fundamental rights of the hundreds of thousands of infected individuals who are pouring through the open southern border.

Some rights are sacrosanct, and for the moment, it ain't yours.
Those are all good points. There's more than the vector argument, though; there's the hospital capacity issue, at least right now. That's locale-dependent of course. And the burnout of frontline doctors and nurses.
SomeDude
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:45 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by SomeDude » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:38 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:03 pm
D1984 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm

Also, if we are so "soft on crime" and doing so results in supposedly soaring crime rates, how do you explain how, say, Scandinavia has lower violent crime rates than us despite sentences that are a fraction of ours and prisons that are so "soft" and non-harsh by American standards they are almost unbelievable to American eyes?
I think the obvious answer is that Scandinavia has fewer black people. The police in the United States, as we learned in 2020, are white supremacists with badges who pin imaginary crime on black people. Without blacks to pin crimes on, crimes simply don't occur. The cops in Scandinavia likely spend most of their days napping.
Bingo. This is exactly what i was getting at and why D's trolling wasn't going to fool anyone. It's obvious the major difference between the US and Scandinavia is that the US is full of racist cops who are able to pin 50% of violent crime on 6% of the population (black males) and a majority of the remaining violent crime on a slightly bigger segment (non-white hispanic males).

I'm surprised you pointed out the obvious to everyone TF but you lifetime liberals seem to enjoy that sort of thing.

You ruined D's trap to expose the lowest of IQs who couldn't see the obvious silliness of the original question.
D1984
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 730
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by D1984 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:43 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:03 pm
D1984 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm
Also, if we are so "soft on crime" and doing so results in supposedly soaring crime rates, how do you explain how, say, Scandinavia has lower violent crime rates than us despite sentences that are a fraction of ours and prisons that are so "soft" and non-harsh by American standards they are almost unbelievable to American eyes?
It's a nice attempt at satire/trolling D, but there's no way anyone on this forum is going to take this question seriously and fall for the trick. I mean.....a person would have to have an IQ under 80 to not immediately understand the major obvious differences between the US and Scandinavian countries. There is no way anyone on this forum is so stupid they will fall for this trolling attempt.

It was a nice try though. Imagine someone being so brainless to think the relative criminal justices systems between between the US and Scandinavia prove anything about crime levels!
I wasn't being satirical. It's not just Scandinavia.....if you look at most of Western Europe or for that matter Canada you will find they have far less harsh criminal justice systems than we do yet they don't seem overrun with violent crime.

Are you suggesting/implying that the only reason we have higher violent crime levels than most of these countries is because of the racial makeup of our population?

EDIT: Never mind suggesting it, you went out and said it outright (well, in a very satirical manner but it was clear what you were implying).

So let me get this straight:

1. Do you believe that America will (regardless of our criminal justice system) always have higher crime rates than Scandinavia, Western Europe, or Canada, because we have higher proportions of our population as black people. Yes/no?

2. In relation to the above, do you think that the only way to control crime in America is a harsh justice system because that's the only thing that can deter crime by blacks (i.e. a Scandinavian/European/Canadian style system would not be a deterrent to them). If so, why is it the case that such a system would not be enough of a deterrent to them? Do you believe that they (or at least the majority of them) are basically low-IQ, high present orientation/low future orientation, high time preference (preference for immediate utility over delayed utility), impulsive, aggressive "animals" such that only a system of tough law enforcement and brutal justice will serve as an effective enough deterrent to criminal misbehavior by members of their race?
KayFaybe
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:48 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:09 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:29 pm
@Moda

Your definition of a 'small uptick' in crime?

Chicago Expressway Shootings More Than Double in 2021 Compared to This Time Last Year
Exactly. Why, take a look at this:

Chicago area expressway shootings more than doubled in 2020 – and still climbing
CHICAGO — The recent spike in Chicago gun violence is not limited to the city’s residential streets and commercial corridors, but bustling expressways as well.

WGN Investigates obtained data from the Illinois State Police that show the number of shootings on Chicago area expressways more than doubled from 2019 to 2020, jumping from 52 to 128.
As a long time Republican / libertarian / small government conservative, I know, like you all do, that crime is a local problem. So even though these shootings more than doubled during the last year of Donald Trump's presidency, there wasn't a whole lot he could do about it.
And even after the surge in gunfire last year, the number of shootings on area expressways continues to climb in 2021. Through mid-July, the ISP tallied 133 shootings on local highways.
(Note: the article I quoted is from Aug 10, so only has data through mid-July... Pugchief's link shows the Chicago expressway shootings count at 158 through August 23.)

As a long-time Republican / libertarian / law-and-order conservative, I know, like all of you, that this near-doubling of the expressway homicide rate can be clearly laid at the feet of Sleepy Joe Biden.
glennds
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by glennds » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:46 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:09 pm


Interesting, isn't it, that nobody dared suggest that gay men should stop having anal sex--even when the predictable outcome was to inflict a truly deadly disease upon large numbers of other people. Their freedom to engage in risky sexual behavior--and thus to promote a public health disaster--was deemed so fundamental that the law actually gave infected individuals license to knowingly and deliberately transmit the virus to others.

What was suggested to gay men (and all adults for that matter) at the time was not to stop engaging in sex, but rather to do so responsibly and safely, if not by abstinence, then by using a condom. Then surgeon general, C. Everett Koop famously delivered the message personally in public service announcements at the time.

I understand your general argument, but the example you provide above doesn't help you. Don't you think it's a stretch to say that license was granted to infected people to knowingly and deliberately transmit the AIDS virus to others in the name of freedom?

Especially considering more than 30 out of 50 states have prosecuted people for exposing another person to HIV. The law varies widely from state to state. In some states it is a felony and others a misdemeanor. The issue is further complicated by the fact that it is scientifically impossible to definitively prove who infected whom. And the assumption that (anal or other forms of) sexual intercourse is the only means of transmission is absolutely incorrect or dare I say, ignorant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_ ... ted_States

Offered in the spirit of honest, genuine discussion.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:25 am

glennds wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:46 pm
What was suggested to gay men (and all adults for that matter) at the time was not to stop engaging in sex, but rather to do so responsibly and safely, if not by abstinence, then by using a condom.
Which makes my point precisely. The idea of taking an insanely risky behavior and making it "safer" was a soft-pedaled, largely ineffective, measure designed by the CDC to insure that the homosexual lifestyle--which was typified not only by anal sex but by anonymous sex and multiple sex partners--remained unfettered. At the center of the controversy was the perception that any imposition upon that lifestyle would amount to an unconstitutional (and politically objectionable) infringement upon the fundamental civil liberties of those infected. The gravity of the resulting public health crisis far exceeded anything that has ever been seen with the coronavirus, yet no one clamored for mandatory quarantines or urged that infected individuals who were actively spreading the virus be denied employment or admission to college. No one suggested that they maintain a six-foot distance from others or that they avoid having conversations with one another. No one demanded that they be forcibly treated, be denied medical care, lose custody of their children, be put into concentration camps, or be deported to Afghanistan (all of which have been loudly called for during just the last week in relation to CoVid vaccine refusers).
Don't you think it's a stretch to say that license was granted to infected people to knowingly and deliberately transmit the AIDS virus to others in the name of freedom?
As recently as a few years ago, democrat lawmakers in California passed legislation reducing the penalty for knowingly exposing another person to the HIV virus with the intent to transmit it to a mere misdemeanor. Knowingly donating HIV-infected blood was decriminalized. This legislation formally codified what was largely the practice in the majority of states, which was to decline to prosecute the vast majority of cases which, had they involved anything less sacrosanct than gay sex, would have constituted flat-out murder. Think about this: We've seen harsher penalties imposed upon healthy people who fail to wear a mask.
And the assumption that (anal or other forms of) sexual intercourse is the only means of transmission is absolutely incorrect or dare I say, ignorant.
Who made that assumption, and what possible relevance does it have to this discussion in any event?
User avatar
moda0306
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 7680
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by moda0306 » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:09 am

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:29 pm
@Moda

Your definition of a 'small uptick' in crime?

Chicago Expressway Shootings More Than Double in 2021 Compared to This Time Last Year
Pug,

My link was looking at national statistics. Not one city. I’m sorry to hear yours is less than desirable. I know as a of a couple years ago it wasn’t even in the top 30 most dangerous cities. I don’t know if that’s changed.

I rarely went to minneapolis before. I still don’t. More of a home-body so don’t have much of a reason to.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:32 am

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:52 am



My general impression of the modern voter that I have discerned from social media (for whatever that is worth) is that the majority of them are far more into optics than actual policy so I am not sure that a lot of Biden supporters would turn on him for things like inflation or a Middle East crisis. At least not enough to vote for the other party. My observation (and this goes for Trump supporters as well) is that a lot of his supporters either dont know or dont care about the details of his administration. They are voting for the image: the image of a President and Vice President who care about people, are more inclusive and tolerant, believe in science, don't espouse hate speech etc. They are voting for ideals and not policy.


I think you hit it with this one.

I used to regularly tell Bernie supporters that being president is a real job. Not just running around giving speeches.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
glennds
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:45 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:25 am

The idea of taking an insanely risky behavior and making it "safer" was a soft-pedaled, largely ineffective, measure designed by the CDC to insure that the homosexual lifestyle--which was typified not only by anal sex but by anonymous sex and multiple sex partners--remained unfettered.
Okay, since you are indicting the CDC and public health authorities as soft pedaling an ineffective response, please share what you would have done differently.
Please note, I was taken aback by your particular characterization and assumptions about what you refer to as "homosexual lifestyle" as typical to a bygone era traveling as far back as medieval, but no longer shared in most of the developed world.
Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:25 am
The gravity of the resulting public health crisis far exceeded anything that has ever been seen with the coronavirus, yet no one clamored for mandatory quarantines or urged that infected individuals who were actively spreading the virus be denied employment or admission to college.
What exactly would be the (Libertarian) method for picking out those infected individuals who were actively spreading the virus?
Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:25 am
No one suggested that they maintain a six-foot distance from others or that they avoid having conversations with one another. No one demanded that they be forcibly treated, be denied medical care, lose custody of their children, be put into concentration camps, or be deported to Afghanistan (all of which have been loudly called for during just the last week in relation to CoVid vaccine refusers).
Are you listening to yourself? There's been a call to deport vaccine refusers to Afghanistan? Source? In fact, please share a source of any of the penalties you've mentioned.

Since you mentioned concentration camps and the need to fetter the homosexual lifestyle in the same post, did you know the Nazis made a pairing out of those two very ideas? Coincidence.
Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:25 am
As recently as a few years ago, democrat lawmakers in California passed legislation reducing the penalty for knowingly exposing another person to the HIV virus with the intent to transmit it to a mere misdemeanor. Knowingly donating HIV-infected blood was decriminalized. This legislation formally codified what was largely the practice in the majority of states, which was to decline to prosecute the vast majority of cases which, had they involved anything less sacrosanct than gay sex, would have constituted flat-out murder. Think about this: We've seen harsher penalties imposed upon healthy people who fail to wear a mask.
I provided you a link on criminalization of intentional HIV transmission. It included prosecution examples.
Can you share examples of prosecutions for failure to wear a mask?

*Edited in response to Maddy's feedback*
Last edited by glennds on Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:17 am

Your response to a serious proposition is "Dude. . ."?

Good lord, if you're making a coherent point, it's lost on me.

I'll give you one cite, then YOU can spend the day studying up on the various nutty things that the politically-minded vaccine proponents are calling for: It was the former Director of the CIA who recently suggested sending the unvaccinated to Afghanistan. https://potomaclocal.com/2021/08/24/geo ... ghanistan/

Here's another, and then I'm done: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin ... ing-a-mask
Last edited by Maddy on Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
flyingpylon
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:22 am

glennds wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:45 am
Are you listening to yourself? There's been a call to deport vaccine refusers to Afghanistan? Source? In fact, please share a source of any of the penalties you've mentioned.
Probably this... former Director of the CIA & NSA Gen Michael Hayden: https://twitter.com/GenMhayden/status/1 ... 6149661696
glennds
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:38 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:22 am
glennds wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:45 am
Are you listening to yourself? There's been a call to deport vaccine refusers to Afghanistan? Source? In fact, please share a source of any of the penalties you've mentioned.
Probably this... former Director of the CIA & NSA Gen Michael Hayden: https://twitter.com/GenMhayden/status/1 ... 6149661696
Thank you for sharing that.
So Maddy is referring to a former government official's personal opinion tweets? Personally I think it was a tongue in cheek response to someone else's attempt at being clever/funny. But still, if we scour Twitter, or even this forum, I think we can find pretty much any opinion, no matter how ridiculous. But there's a difference between a private citizen's opinion and a "call for deportation".
I could not tell from her post whether the source was official or whether the deportation movement was particularly widespread, but you've cleared it up.
Certainly sounded sensational when she wrote it.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:46 am

My point was that these things are being loudly CALLED FOR by the politically-motivated pro-autocracy crowd. It matters not whether it was said "tongue in cheek" or otherwise; it is something that no one would have dared utter in relation to HIV.

At this point you're flagrantly misrepresenting what I have said and are just trolling me. Either make a valid point or move on.
glennds
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:51 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:17 am
Your response to a serious proposition is "Dude. . ."?

Good lord, if you're making a coherent point, it's lost on me.

I'll give you one cite, then YOU can spend the day studying up on the various nutty things that the politically-minded vaccine proponents are calling for: It was the former Director of the CIA who recently suggested sending the unvaccinated to Afghanistan. https://potomaclocal.com/2021/08/24/geo ... ghanistan/

Here's another, and then I'm done: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin ... ing-a-mask
Thank you, I have just modified my response to a format hopefully acceptable to you, still attempting to convey incredulity along with a clarifying question. I hope you will accept it constructively and find the time to respond.

Thank you also for your link. flyingpylon has shared the genesis for the article, which is a tweet from a retired official who is now a private citizen. No need to repeat my comments to him which I hope you will read.

Thank you x2 for the spectrumlocalnews article. I note that it refers to a City ordinance for compliance with City and State. The operative words are "may be fined". I get your concern and your argument.
But I also note the distinction between the criminal laws I provided and a City ordinance that "may" involve a fine. You are a lawyer, or a legal professional, am I correct?
I provided the criminalization article when you said the "law actually gave infected individuals license to knowingly and deliberately transmit the virus to others" which is completely inaccurate.

Sorry about the "Dude". In reality, your statement was ludicrous enough that I genuinely thought you had jumped on the satire train.
glennds
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:59 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:46 am
My point was that these things are being loudly CALLED FOR by the politically-motivated pro-autocracy crowd. It matters not whether it was said "tongue in cheek" or otherwise; it is something that no one would have dared utter in relation to HIV.

At this point you're flagrantly misrepresenting what I have said and are just trolling me. Either make a valid point or move on.
Maddy, I am not trolling you. I'm trying to engage in genuine discussion. I wish you would answer some of the questions I posed in response to your statements. So far you've provided tweets from people and "articles' about those tweets, and only on the "send 'em to Afghanistan" comment. That's all.

Where has failure to mask been prosecuted?
What would you have done differently than the CDC re: AIDS crisis?
How would you pick out and identify the people you say were infected individuals actively and deliberately spreading the virus?
Legitimate sources on forcible treatment, lost of custody of children, concentration camp proposals? Are we talking online nutjob comments or something more real?

Are these not fair questions? Are tough questions trolling? Interesting. You made the initial statements, not me.
KayFaybe
Associate Member
Associate Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:48 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:51 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:16 am
KayFaybe wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:09 pm
...
providing fake news
Look, I'm on your side.

I found an article featuring data that indicated Chicago Expressway shootings doubled from 2019 to 2020. As we both know, Trump tweeted alot about this back in 2020. He didn't end up sending in the National Guard because the Dem IL governor didn't want it. Not Trump's fault. Local problem.

And both my link and yours have data indicating that it looks like 2021 Chicago Expressway shootings have already exceeded 2020 totals. So likely more than double by the end of the year. There is still no National Guard in Illinois. This is Biden's fault.

What was the fake news?
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Tortoise » Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:19 pm

I generally take political polls with a grain of salt, but I couldn't help but notice that recent polls have shown Biden's approval rating dropping like a rock, largely due to independents (since Republicans' and Democrats' opinion of Biden hasn't changed much):
Also, if you want to know where the erosion from Biden is coming from in our poll, it’s coming from independents, who were crucial to his coalition in the 2020 election.

- Biden’s job rating among independents in April: 61 percent
- Biden’s job rating among independents now: 46 percent
- Biden’s Covid handling among independents in April: 81 percent
- Biden’s Covid handling among independents now: 52 percent
- Biden’s economic handling among independents in April: 60 percent
- Biden’s economic handling among independents now: 45 percent
- Congressional preference among independents in April: D+14
- Congressional preference among independents now: R+1

In our new poll, the Democrats have remained steadily behind Biden. It’s independents who have moved.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277430
For President Joe Biden, the cost of the war's chaotic end has been steep. His overall job approval rating now stands at 41% who approve versus 55% who disapprove – a big drop in the closely watched barometer of political health. Until last week, national polls generally showed his approval rating above 50%.

Now, while he has held the backing of 87% of Democrats, only 32% of independents say he's doing a good job.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 244854002/
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3338
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbL ... sWebb.html

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:51 pm

KayFaybe wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:51 pm

I found an article featuring data that indicated Chicago Expressway shootings doubled from 2019 to 2020. As we both know, Trump tweeted alot about this back in 2020. He didn't end up sending in the National Guard because the Dem IL governor didn't want it. Not Trump's fault. Local problem.

And both my link and yours have data indicating that it looks like 2021 Chicago Expressway shootings have already exceeded 2020 totals. So likely more than double by the end of the year. There is still no National Guard in Illinois. This is Biden's fault.
You guys are funny (or gal, I don't know).

National guard. In Chicago. And, pray tell, give me an objective? Probably reduce crime and/or murders, right?

So if I was a gangbanger, I'd lay low for a few months while they were there, then pick it back up once they leave.

Sound familiar? Like Afghanistan?

So easy to say send in the Guard, or we can blow them all to hell, or I'd have it cleaned up in a minute. Doing it...a little harder than words.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:52 pm

glennds wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:59 am
I wish you would answer some of the questions I posed in response to your statements. So far you've provided tweets from people and "articles' about those tweets, and only on the "send 'em to Afghanistan" comment. That's all.

Where has failure to mask been prosecuted?
What would you have done differently than the CDC re: AIDS crisis?
How would you pick out and identify the people you say were infected individuals actively and deliberately spreading the virus?
Legitimate sources on forcible treatment, lost of custody of children, concentration camp proposals? Are we talking online nutjob comments or something more real?

Are these not fair questions? Are tough questions trolling? Interesting. You made the initial statements, not me.
Do you not understand the difference between the proposition that people have called for a particular thing and the proposition that the thing is true?
I've had enough. Go away.
Post Reply