Third world immigration

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Third world immigration

Post by SomeDude » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:22 am

Thank God Trump is gone so the diversification program of turning the US into a third world country can continue.

I hope they all get their vaccines.

Seriously Biden voters, what on earth were you thinking? Why couldn't you just move to a third world communist country instead and leave the rest of us alone?



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rules.html
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:00 pm

I am trying to understand ny times motive for actually reporting this.


Number of Migrant Children Detained at Border Has Tripled in Two Weeks

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/08 ... biden-news

An idea I believe I heard from Scott Adams. When do we just full on annex Mexico?

The growth that would be created in the country would be exponential.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by SomeDude » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:53 pm

Wow W.....ya racist.

Annex Mexico? Ummm.....Mexico should annex us. Sheesh get with the program buddy 😂
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:22 pm

Or just send their people to colonize us
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:39 am

Great idea.

Then the southern border would become a lot smaller. Easier to build a wall especially with lots of cheap labor near at hand.

And, it would get a lot cheaper and easier to fly to Cancun for spring break! and, get cheap avocados and tropical fruits in grocery stores.

The big question is whether Mexicans would want to deal with the crazy mess we have in Washington. They've got their own mess but who knows, they might consider it preferable to ours.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by pp4me » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:11 pm

Is there anybody here who either voted for Biden or leans that way politically who can explain what exactly is the Democrat policy in regards to border enforcement?

Mine is pretty simple. I believe the laws passed by congressional representatives should be followed and enforced and if they need to be changed there is a procedure for that.

During the Democratic debates a few questions were asked of the candidates about immigration but not enough to be helpful. The most famous one was whether illegal immigrants should get free health care and every candidate raised their hand. I recall other questions about whether or not crossing the border should be decriminalized and if ICE should be abolished and I think most candidates were in favor but probably not all in a blanket statement.

I also recall that they referred to the term "Open Borders" as a Republican talking point.

So I'll repeat my initial question. Can anybody explain what is the policy, because I'm thinking there really isn't one.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:50 pm

Once you go down the route of "Let's agree what the rules are, and then enforce the rules", it becomes chaos.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by moda0306 » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:20 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:11 pm
Is there anybody here who either voted for Biden or leans that way politically who can explain what exactly is the Democrat policy in regards to border enforcement?

Mine is pretty simple. I believe the laws passed by congressional representatives should be followed and enforced and if they need to be changed there is a procedure for that.

During the Democratic debates a few questions were asked of the candidates about immigration but not enough to be helpful. The most famous one was whether illegal immigrants should get free health care and every candidate raised their hand. I recall other questions about whether or not crossing the border should be decriminalized and if ICE should be abolished and I think most candidates were in favor but probably not all in a blanket statement.

I also recall that they referred to the term "Open Borders" as a Republican talking point.

So I'll repeat my initial question. Can anybody explain what is the policy, because I'm thinking there really isn't one.
What is either party's policy on anything that isn't an incoherent mess??

What is the Republican party's policy on immigration?

My preference is open borders. I'd be more amenable to "enforce all laws" if that wouldn't bring civilization to a grinding halt and result in every cop in the country arresting themselves or one of their buddies in blue.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm

The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by tomfoolery » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:03 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:11 pm
Is there anybody here who either voted for Biden or leans that way politically who can explain what exactly is the Democrat policy in regards to border enforcement?
I voted for Biden and I will say I’m in favor of open borders. It will fix a lot of issues we have today. For example, the housing crisis is caused by Trump-era policies of xenophobia.

Why are houses so expensive?

Because of tariffs driving up the cost of construction materials.

Because of blocking immigration, which are a supply of cheap labor to build houses.

Oh, but won’t these immigrants take jobs away from Americans when we have high unemployment? No. They will only take jobs Americans don’t want to do.

Oh, but wouldn’t the new immigrants buy up housing and reduce supply further? No. They’ll only buy houses Americans don’t want to live in.

Open the borders, give everyone universal healthcare, including immigrants, so they can be treated for any outstanding disease before it spreads, give immigrants free access to education at a K through college level, so they can better integrate into society, remove xenophobic requirements that they learn to speak English, so they can retain important aspects of their culture.

It’s quite reasonable.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by moda0306 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by pugchief » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:00 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
Then what is your suggestion/solution? You seem to be very anti-police, so should we just allow the lawlessness run rampant?
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by tomfoolery » Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:12 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:00 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
Then what is your suggestion/solution? You seem to be very anti-police, so should we just allow the lawlessness run rampant?
The basis of our current police force is white supremacy. If we eliminated the police, there’d be less criminality and our poor minority underclass would have an opportunity to pursue non-criminal enterprises.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by murphy_p_t » Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:19 pm

Lol
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Mark Leavy
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by Mark Leavy » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:07 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
As delightful as your scenario sounds, all it would take is for whomever is running the executive branch to strictly enforce the most egregious laws that they hate - instead of the current system of NOT enforcing the laws they hate. But that would take a spine and brass balls.

Malicious Compliance is a powerful tool.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by moda0306 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:14 pm

pugchief wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:00 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
Then what is your suggestion/solution? You seem to be very anti-police, so should we just allow the lawlessness run rampant?
I don’t think human movement is a problem. Much less one that requires some version of complete enforcement.

I think the burden of proof of effectiveness or “solution” to some supposed ill is the party recommending we build a violent enforcement mechanism around it.

My main point of rejecting the “just enforce all the laws” narrative/“solution” is that it’s just structurally impossible. But even if it were somewhat reasonably possible in this instance, the idea of forcibly removing tens of millions of people from this country is one of the most functionally evil ideas that I Regularly hear suggested our government implement. Mostly because the whole self-imploding idea of “enforce all laws” wouldn’t really be observed because it can’t. As always, selective enforcement would be the standard.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:20 pm

Do open borders ultimately lead to “lowest common denominator” or “upwards to the mean” for our country vs, what it was with controlled immigration?
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by pugchief » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:16 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:14 pm
pugchief wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:00 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:22 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:33 pm
The best way to get rid of bad laws is through strict enforcement. Force the legislative branch to take some responsibility.
The entire criminal justice system would collapse under the weight of all its enforcement implications if we enforced all laws tomorrow. Literally you’d have cops arresting other cops for their crimes. Beyond that, even if we ignored that aspect, We’d vastly exceed our justice system’s ability to handle the load.

I understand and somewhat agree with the point you’re trying to make, but we’re simply beyond the feedback system You mention.
Then what is your suggestion/solution? You seem to be very anti-police, so should we just allow the lawlessness run rampant?
I don’t think human movement is a problem. Much less one that requires some version of complete enforcement.

I think the burden of proof of effectiveness or “solution” to some supposed ill is the party recommending we build a violent enforcement mechanism around it.

My main point of rejecting the “just enforce all the laws” narrative/“solution” is that it’s just structurally impossible. But even if it were somewhat reasonably possible in this instance, the idea of forcibly removing tens of millions of people from this country is one of the most functionally evil ideas that I Regularly hear suggested our government implement. Mostly because the whole self-imploding idea of “enforce all laws” wouldn’t really be observed because it can’t. As always, selective enforcement would be the standard.
So in other words, you don't have a solution. It's not human movement so much as the problem, it's that the whole world can't just come here and expect freebies. No other country on the planet allows that. In fact, no other country allows free movement or mass amnesty to illegals undocumented people.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by moda0306 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 pm

Of course if I don’t think I would have a solution to something I don’t think is a problem. Furthermore, to the degree that someone thinks it’s a problem and wants to use my money plus more violence to enforce their solution, then they can go pack sand, or come to me with their proof that they have a problem and a humane solution on their hands.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by whatchamacallit » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:27 pm

Some good state of the border posts

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDaines
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by GT » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:18 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:39 am
Great idea.

Then the southern border would become a lot smaller. Easier to build a wall especially with lots of cheap labor near at hand.

And, it would get a lot cheaper and easier to fly to Cancun for spring break! and, get cheap avocados and tropical fruits in grocery stores.

The big question is whether Mexicans would want to deal with the crazy mess we have in Washington. They've got their own mess but who knows, they might consider it preferable to ours.

If I am not mistaken, Mexico has large untapped oil reserves - cheap energy and less reliance on the middle east.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by glennds » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm

Like a lot of people, I have been assuming the US rates of immigrant entry (both legal and illegal) are really high because after all, everyone seems to be beating down the door to get into the shining city on the hill.

To my surprise, it doesn't look like this is the case, at least according to these tables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

And I know Wikipedia is not trusted by many here, but the source data is cited as coming from the UN and World Bank.

If I'm reading the data correctly, in terms of net migration per 1000 (5 year average annualized), quite a few countries are materially higher than the US, for example Canada, Australia, NZ, Germany, Italy, Singapore.

I'm still seeking other sources, but so far this is interesting, and certainly suggests the US is not being especially inundated by immigrants, more so than other industrialized countries. This is not to make light of the migrant situation at the southern border, but it might be helpful to look at the issue in macro context.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 pm

glennds wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm
To my surprise, it doesn't look like this is the case, at least according to these tables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate
Glen, you're being disingenuous here. If you were a small town American, I would just assume lack of knowledge, but you've mentioned several times that you have a lot of world travel experience.

You know the immigration in those top 5 Arabic countries are Filipinas and Nepalese slave labor that have no rights and will be deported in a heartbeat for dropping an egg or forgetting to have sex with the male in the house.

The Maldives are Russians and Italians assisting in the tourist industry. Again, no rights and subject to deportation.

Singapore, Macao, Australia... Rich Chinese buying up the country and establishing residency for wealth storage.

Curacao? I've shaken hands with everyone on that island. Caribbean Island nations aren't even a comparison to the USA.

Switzerland? I know you aren't that naive. Maybe the Vatican is harder to immigrate to, but I doubt it.

And while the Wikipedia page states that they make no distinction between lawful and unlawful immigrants, there is little chance that they have accurate numbers on unlawful immigrants.

Again, you know better. You know how immigration works in those other countries. Don't just cite the article and let it hang like there is any comparison at all to what is happening at the US Southern Border.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by glennds » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:06 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 pm
glennds wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:15 pm
To my surprise, it doesn't look like this is the case, at least according to these tables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate
Glen, you're being disingenuous here. If you were a small town American, I would just assume lack of knowledge, but you've mentioned several times that you have a lot of world travel experience.

You know the immigration in those top 5 Arabic countries are Filipinas and Nepalese slave labor that have no rights and will be deported in a heartbeat for dropping an egg or forgetting to have sex with the male in the house.

The Maldives are Russians and Italians assisting in the tourist industry. Again, no rights and subject to deportation.

Singapore, Macao, Australia... Rich Chinese buying up the country and establishing residency for wealth storage.

Curacao? I've shaken hands with everyone on that island. Caribbean Island nations aren't even a comparison to the USA.

Switzerland? I know you aren't that naive. Maybe the Vatican is harder to immigrate to, but I doubt it.

And while the Wikipedia page states that they make no distinction between lawful and unlawful immigrants, there is little chance that they have accurate numbers on unlawful immigrants.

Again, you know better. You know how immigration works in those other countries. Don't just cite the article and let it hang like there is any comparison at all to what is happening at the US Southern Border.
Mark, my digitally nomadic buddy, calling me disingenuous? Based on the time stamp, not sure if you banged out your response after a convivial night of bartender repartee or not.. but before you go mathjak on me, let me elaborate.

Yes, there are likely unique reasons for high immigration to cherry picked smaller population countries high up on the list. But it also includes countries like Austria, Germany, Italy, Sweden, UK, New Zealand, Canada.

My larger point was that migration, whether net positive or net negative is happening all over the world, and when viewed in a larger context, the US is not as unique a recipient of the dogpile as we sometimes think.

I think immigration has its own idiosyncrasies in every country, and I don't claim to know all of them so no, I can't say I know the mechanics of how immigration works in all these countries.

It's an interesting subject, and I try to look at the world from a perspective not just limited to an American-centric one.

Unfortunately, I am not finding it easy to obtain a breakdown on the source of immigration into each country.
When you simplify Australia, Singapore and Macau to being nothing more than rich Chinese, can you prove it? I did find some data that suggests the majority of Singapore immigration is from Malaysia. But if you have any more, I'd like to see it.

Switzerland? Not sure what you're trying to say. World Bank data suggests a decent amount of immigration despite a quota system, roughly a fourth of the country are immigrants, Italians, Germans and Portuguese being the largest groups: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/C ... statistics
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/foreigners ... e/44758558

Regarding Australia, another case that may be more than simply rich Chinese. According to this article, Chinese immigrants are indeed a large group, but behind British, and right alongside India followed by NZ, Philippines, Vietnam, in a country that is almost 1/3 immigrants. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/peopl ... us%20year.

Look, I'm trying to get further schooled on the issue in global terms, and if you have data, love to see it, love to learn more.

P.S. One question I have is why Greece was a negative number when we've all heard about the migrant crisis of asylum seekers landing there after crossing the Mediterranean. Maybe the migrants are mainly passing through Greece on the way to Germany?
Speaking of which, I know a German or two who would tell Americans not to feel so special about what's going on at our southern border.
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Re: Third world immigration

Post by moda0306 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:12 am

whatchamacallit wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:27 pm
Some good state of the border posts

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveDaines
Yeah he’s a real peach alright lol.

https://youtu.be/Jt-bg35tBvQ

What complete shlubs we have running our policing agencies or peddling their bullshit and voting for more of their funding.

End the drug war. Abolish ICE. If you want to defend the racial and cultural purity of your community, or the billion acres of conquered US landmass, do it yourself.
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