Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

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vnatale
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:16 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm

a3187dac155f.jpg


1) Again..it's not a 1st Amendment, Free Speech issue. That refers to government restriction of speech

2) Can you go into a restaurant (one of your favorite Chicago ones, pugchief) and shout whatever you want and expect them not to ask you to leave?

3) These are private companies able to do whatever they want (within the law). There are no laws preventing what each of them individually decided to do. Some of us believe they were probably years past doing what they did. Especially in regards to Trump and his Twitter account.

4) Why is Microsoft missing? How did they not become part of this conspiracy / collusion?

5) It's as simple as last Wednesday was a catalytic event which caused all of these giants to finally come to their senses. The same way in Watergate when enough of a tipping point was reached so Nixon even lost his until then Republican supporters.

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by pugchief » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:22 pm

3. But they are breaking the law. Anti-trust law. But no one will enforce it.

We are in danger of becoming China
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by SomeDude » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:29 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am
Indeed, a Parler executive told me that of the thirteen people arrested as of Monday for the breach at the Capitol, none appear to be active users of Parler. The Capitol breach was planned far more on Facebook and YouTube.
No authoritarians believe they are authoritarians. No matter how repressive are the measures they support — censorship, monopoly power, no-fly lists for American citizens without due process — they tell themselves that those they are silencing and attacking are so evil, are terrorists, that anything done against them is noble and benevolent, not despotic and repressive. That is how American liberals currently think, as they fortify the control of Silicon Valley monopolies over our political lives, exemplified by the overnight destruction of a new and popular competitor.
Skimmed the article, very good, love the conclusion.

I do have an issue with the first paragraph above. The idea that there was some "Breach" at the Capital is a debunked conspiracy theory. It's not even that they didn't lock the doors, they opened them and escorted people in. The videos are out there. Security on walkie talkies getting radioed to let people in.

A bunch of middle-aged un-armed people, some in silly costumes CANT just walk through the capitol building while the entire Congress is in session. One armed guard firing a rifle in the air or even locked doors would keep all but the window-breaking ANTIFA out.

Calling it a breach or insurrection or riot is stupid. I don't even care if there were some ANTIFA acting badly. They didn't even lock the doors. Cops are resigning and "committing suicide" over it (yeah ok). I know I know, everything is a conspiracy right? It's either that or the most bonkers insane coincidence.

The "breach" was an orchestrated event to provide cover for censorship, crackdowns on people, impeachment, removal of the prez, new anti-protest powers for Biden etc.

I know I know guys, it was a horrible violent mob that broke down the doors lol. un-armed everyday Americans WALKED in while the ENTIRE Congress was in Session. Do you really think that's physically possible if they weren't let in?
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:45 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm
a3187dac155f.jpg
(Sorry I am still getting email notified on this thread so I am answering because I like sparring with pug!)

You are free to conduct your life without those companies that are supposedly choking off free speech.

Put the iPhone down, pug. Drop your Prime subscription. Got an old Blackberry? ;)

There have been no companies, in my estimation, that have promoted so much free ranging speech in the history of the world than those that are being castigated right now. Boo hoo, Trump got banned, throw the whole industry under the bus.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:12 pm

Listened to all 34 minutes of it while reading the transcript!

The interview was done with the Parler CEO while last Wednesday's events were going on.

Vinny


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/opin ... ogin=email


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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Maddy » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:16 pm

. . .
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by GT » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:12 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:45 pm
pugchief wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm
a3187dac155f.jpg
(Sorry I am still getting email notified on this thread so I am answering because I like sparring with pug!)

You are free to conduct your life without those companies that are supposedly choking off free speech.

Put the iPhone down, pug. Drop your Prime subscription. Got an old Blackberry? ;)

There have been no companies, in my estimation, that have promoted so much free ranging speech in the history of the world than those that are being castigated right now. Boo hoo, Trump got banned, throw the whole industry under the bus.
George "Cortopassi" Costanza? :) - Every time I think I'm out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-QYRITpXrY

I do agree that companies should set their own standards.
- if they want to be political that is their risk

Customers should have a right to vote with their feet.

The joke you made is correct - where do you go to get away from the tech giants - Blackberry?

Wasn't Verizon forced to share cell tower coverage with Sprint. via lease, to get away from the image of having a monopoly? that rings a bell but I could be wrong.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by flyingpylon » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:39 pm

Parler definitely made a major strategic error in depending on Google, Facebook, and Amazon. If they were truly serious about their mission, they didn't have to look any further than Gab.com for an example of what could happen to them. There are some that say Parler's real mission was to build a database of users and data. Even if not used in the same manner as other social media networks, that's a valuable thing. That might explain the less than rigorous approach to their project. I don't claim to know any of that for a fact, it's just speculation.

One of the problems with these tech giants is the extent to which they are now interwoven with our government. Has anyone looked at how many people have job-hopped between government and tech? Has anyone seen a list of incoming Biden staffers and looked at their connections to big tech? Anyone think the Biden administration is going to do anything to protect people from these behemoths?

I don't have the answers. If action will not be taken at the national level, perhaps it will be up to state governments to impose some kind of control. Get enough of them together and maybe they could force certain changes.

Maybe certain types of companies need to be regulated as utilities. At what point did electricity providers or telephone companies become regulated?

Speaking of telephone companies, antitrust is another issue. Anyone remember AT&T before 1982 (I know you do)? My grandfather worked for Bell Telephone for 42 years and I'll never forget him explaining that breaking up the Bell System was the stupidest thing the government ever could have done. Obviously he had a biased opinion, but I remember him being pretty hot about it and I didn't know much about it, I was only in high school at the time.

It's a complicated issue with no easy answers. You can say "go build your own ______" but the problem is that these big tech companies have so much market share and so much power that not only does it make it extremely difficult to create an application that can compete, it's extremely difficult for others to create businesses that can provide the technical and financial infrastructure to help you run it at scale. By simply saying "oh well, that's business" we all miss out on a lot of potential innovation and advances.

I generally think the government should leave businesses alone and let the market sort it out. But there have to be limits to that at some point and the country will have to decide. It will be messy getting there.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by glennds » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:34 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:16 pm
glennds wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:54 pm
Add Angela Merkel to the list of those concerned with Twitter's censoring:

https://www.thelocal.de/20210111/merkel ... roblematic

or

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... oblematic/
Lol

She just thinks she should get to decide who gets to speak, not a company.

Germany does not have freedom of speech. You can get arrested for certain beliefs there if you express them.
Really? Where did you hear this SomeDude?

From Wikipedia (among other sources)
The Federal Republic of Germany guarantees freedom of speech, expression, and opinion to its citizens as per Article 5 of the constitution....
Since the publication of the German Grundgesetz, there have been two kinds of censored media in Germany. The first is material that is considered offensive or indecent; such media are placed on the "Index" and restricted in their publication, and distribution to minors is illegal. The second is material that is considered anti-constitutional, dangerous to the state.


And for the more visual, here is some representative German opinion about Trump from a parade (annual Carnaval):

Image
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by SomeDude » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:03 pm

glennds wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:34 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:16 pm
glennds wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:54 pm
Add Angela Merkel to the list of those concerned with Twitter's censoring:

https://www.thelocal.de/20210111/merkel ... roblematic

or

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... oblematic/
Lol

She just thinks she should get to decide who gets to speak, not a company.

Germany does not have freedom of speech. You can get arrested for certain beliefs there if you express them.
Really? Where did you hear this SomeDude?

From Wikipedia (among other sources)
The Federal Republic of Germany guarantees freedom of speech, expression, and opinion to its citizens as per Article 5 of the constitution....
Since the publication of the German Grundgesetz, there have been two kinds of censored media in Germany. The first is material that is considered offensive or indecent; such media are placed on the "Index" and restricted in their publication, and distribution to minors is illegal. The second is material that is considered anti-constitutional, dangerous to the state.
From the same Wikipedia, I'm amazed you missed it:


Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. § 130(3) of the StGB (German penal code) reads:

He who, publicly or in assembly, approves, denies, or trivializes genocide committed under the regime of National Socialism in a way that is suitable to disturb the public peace, is subject to imprisonment up to 5 years or a monetary fine.[20]
Perpetrators of Holocaust denial can be tried in absentia and declared persona non grata, thus being barred from entering the country. Extradition treaties as relate to Holocaust denial are subject to political asylum pleas, but a persona non grata who enters Germany can be immediately arrested. Furthermore, a German arrest warrant based on the offense of Holocaust denial is deemed executable in many EU states, thus, a Holocaust denier's entry into any EU state could lead to arrest and extradition to Germany (or any other state where such denial is an offense, such as Austria, and which has issued an arrest warrant).

Among those who have been charged with Holocaust denial in Germany are the following:

David Irving, who was declared persona non grata and has not returned to Germany;
Germar Rudolf, who was sentenced to prison but fled jurisdiction; he was deported from the United States in 2005;
Ernst Zündel, received a five-year prison sentence on February 15, 2007 in Germany,
Fredrick Töben, an Australian citizen, who had an appointment with a German public prosecutor in Mannheim with whom he wanted to discuss Holocaust denial; at the end of the conversation with the prosecutor, Toben was presented an arrest warrant which the prosecutor had already obtained beforehand. A German court sentenced him to a prison sentence of ten months.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by l82start » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:11 pm

also try being pro christian home school in Germany.. they will come take your kids...
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by SomeDude » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm

Lol. Glends this is literally the second paragraph from the article you linked to:

"The fundamental right to freedom of opinion is a fundamental right of elementary importance, and this fundamental right can be interfered with, but through the law and within the framework defined by the legislature, not according to the decision of the management of social media platforms," said Merkel's spokesman, Steffen Seibert."

As I said, Germany doesn't have freedom of speech and merkle certainly doesnt support it.
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