Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

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Cortopassi
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:46 am

FYI, this is obviously a political discussion and you guys have sent me down the rabbit hole. Xan, can you move this to politics (only if you feel I am correct).

And since I am here:

1) All these big tech companies have terms of service. I assume they are pretty well covered. I am sure 10s/100s of people a day get banned for whatever reasons, and you don't hear about it. I am not sure I agree with the move, just stating what I believe are facts.

2) Trump can have 14 press conferences a day. He isn't completely silenced, he's just silenced back to 1990's level. In fact, right now, with whatever 8 days left and what's been going on, EVERY single news outlet would cover a press conference if Trump called one daily.

3) The 73MM people should boycott these companies to the extent possible if they choose. Obviously, somewhat difficult.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:05 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am


And, so we are clear here, are any of you (doodle, Vinny) in favor of what's been done to Parler? Or are you just enjoying it because it hurts people you oppose? This is discussed in the article. Please elaborate.


My reaction is to have no pity for Parler.

I am extremely dependent on computers and all the information I've created. Therefore I own both a lot of computers and a lot external hard drives to preserve my access to both computers and my precious information. For anything else in life that I'm heavily dependent on I generally have more than one so that I'm not going to be stuck.

Parler seems to have not set up no backups for themselves in spite of what has happened to them being far from a remote probability. This is corporate negligence of the highest order.

I've detailed how both Facebook and Twitters have routinely shut me down because of my behavior and how I had to learn the proper behavior so that I would not get "Parler'ed" by either or both of them. They have their rules and if you want to use their free services then you must abide by their rules. Does not matter if you are just a single person like myself or some entity such as parler.com.

The prevailing sentiment in this forum has its usual conspiratorial undertones to it. That all these private corporations are acting in concert with one another.

Another thing I find amusing is that there is so much reviling of the government here with one of the reasons cited is that the government thinks that know what is best for everyone.

From what I've gathered here there do not seem to be any active users of Facebook or Twitter besides me? Yet many are fine with opining what should happen to Facebook and Twitter? Seems to be a somewhat "big government" mentality to me.

Finally, here is a major piece that all who know best seem to be missing precisely because they do seem to know little about either Facebook or Twitter or both.

Facebook and Twitter are in direct competition with one another.

If I'm deciding to spend some time on social media, they are my main two choices.

Sometimes it will be all Facebook. Sometimes it will be all Twitter. Sometimes it will be actively going back and forth (particularly when I'm putting things I find on Twitter to my Facebook page).

But these two social media giants are in direct competition with one another. If each had the power to mandate and control my behavior they'd not allow me to spend ANY time with the other. They want ALL of me. They do not want a shared me.

Therefore, for you conspiracy believers out there....what is in it for each of these companies to conspire with one another on this? How does it help them get more attention than their other main competitor?

I believe I'm continually told here that this country is more conservative than it is liberal.

If that is true, then why did either Twitter or Facebook not seize the competitive advantage of not catering to the liberal perspective but, instead, catering to the conservative perspective?

Does anyone doubt the that main purpose of both Twitter and Facebook is the same as any other mega-corporation -- to earn the maximum profits possible?

Therefore, I can only believe that Twitter / Facebook / Amazon each made their own individual decisions based upon some combination of how it would affect their bottom line and their corporate revulsions of how they've been played and used by Trump to assist him in so many of his vile "accomplishments".

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 am

Did you read the article, Vinny?

The answers to your questions are laid out there.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by doodle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:23 am

From my understanding Parler had service contracts....I'm sure there is some remedy for severance. I'm just confused because I don't understand what solution Libertarians would like to implement that wouldn't involve government intervention. Am I happy with the power that these tech corporations and our media wield? Absolutely not. Would I like to see regulation? Probably, but that is immediately dismissed here as communistic overreach and a limitation on free speech and private action...so I'm not sure how to react. What do Libertarians suggest other than to abandon the platforms and establish new ones?


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I think Trump brings up a good point...what's the difference between a patriot and a terrorist?

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:46 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 am

Did you read the article, Vinny?

The answers to your questions are laid out there.


I had initially made my comments based upon the long excerpt provided here from the article.

I have now read the article.

I've several times complained here about what an extreme avaricious company Apple is with the way they have planned obsolescence built into their products in the way they handle existing apps no being able to work on devices with "outdated" operating systems. I've not received any sympathy from anyone here. How do I interpret that in any other way than tacit approval of Apple's practices?

If you have made the choice to make the Apple world your only method of connecting to the internet then you have bought into and support this behavior on their part. And, probably, their other behaviors.

They do make wonderful products. But if they behave in such a way antithetical to how you say you believe but you still shovel them tons of $$$$$ for their products....then, in the end. you support their behavior with your $$$$.

I still have to come down on Parler being guilty of gross negligence of duty of the highest order.

The overriding need of any individual or entity is survival. They should have had plans in place to survive under the worst conditions. It appears that they had none.

That the major corporations may now be doing things to cater to a full Democratic government (aside from the Supreme Court -- still fully controlled by the Republicans)....cannot be denied.

But it also cannot be denied that they were doing the same -- catering to a Republican government -- at a time when the Republicans controlled all four branches of government (and, until just recently, still controlled three of them) plus had a President who exhibited unprecedented control over the Justice side of the government. That explains why they let Trump get away for so long with what he did. They were plan afraid of retaliation from a Trump controlled government...from top to bottom. Their was no one of integrity in this top to bottom controlled government.

I am not in favor of Parler.com being banned in any way. I wasted too much time a few days ago trying to log into my account with them. But I do not see them taking any responsibility for the position they currently find themselves in. Again...another familiar conservative / Republican / Trumpist response. Accept no responsibility.

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by pugchief » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:06 am

I detest Apple's avaricious behavior, too, and as such, I refuse to buy any of their products. So that should make you happy.

I also agree that Parler was negligent in not having a plan B.

Nonetheless, what's going on is wrong on so many levels. It is patently un-American.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by pp4me » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:39 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:53 pm
At the time I wrote what I wrote I had clearly stated that my assumption was that libertarians would not be advocating for any government involvement. But after I wrote that I did get a response from pugchief stating his believe that the government should get involved.
Depends on what is meant by getting involved.

I don't know too much about it but I understand that the big tech companies were given some special exemptions in regards to legal liability. If the rationale for doing that was because it was in the public interest to create platforms allowing the free exchange of ideas and information then it appears to me that this rationale no longer exists so those exemptions should be repealed.

If they want to practice censorship and turn their platforms into safe spaces for liberals then I think that is a very bad business decision but it's their company and they can do what they want with it, as most people here seem to agree. If they are going to actively work to thwart the development of an un-censored internet then it sure looks to me like this is moving into anti-trust territory.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:55 am

doodle, you've got your own anti-libertarian trolling agenda that just won't let you talk about anything without trying to argue those points. If you think these corporations all did this independent of each other and of communication with government people, you're blind.

Apart from any government influence, the hypocrisies in the case of the enforcement of terms of service of the various companies are enormous. Further, I haven't promoted any government solution, and I'm not sure anyone here has. That's not to say I do or don't. It hasn't come up and I haven't even thought about it. I'm just asking if the situation worries you and how much? Or does it sit well with you because the the right people have been affected?

Vinny, let's stipulate that Parler could have done things better, and they naively left themselves somewhat defenseless. Is anyone who leaves themselves defenseless to blame for whatever happens to them? No sympathy from you, huh? I don't want to live in that kind of society. Do the actions taken against them worry you, or not? Do you support those actions, or not? Those are the simple questions that define this.

Regardless of what libertarians think, these issues are going to shape 21st century America. I think there is some serious big picture blindness going on right now.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by pugchief » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:02 pm

Will the government's internet ‘kill switch’ be used?
At 3pm ET on June 2, 2019 it appears that Google Cloud (affecting Gmail, YouTube, SnapChat, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook among others) mysteriously (and almost unprecedently) went offline. Was this the trial run?
President Obama signed an executive order the week of July 12, 2012 that could give him control over the web in times of emergency.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:10 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:55 am

doodle, you've got your own anti-libertarian trolling agenda that just won't let you talk about anything without trying to argue those points. If you think these corporations all did this independent of each other and of communication with government people, you're blind.

Apart from any government influence, the hypocrisies in the case of the enforcement of terms of service of the various companies are enormous. Further, I haven't promoted any government solution, and I'm not sure anyone here has. That's not to say I do or don't. It hasn't come up and I haven't even thought about it. I'm just asking if the situation worries you and how much? Or does it sit well with you because the the right people have been affected?

Vinny, let's stipulate that Parler could have done things better, and they naively left themselves somewhat defenseless. Is anyone who leaves themselves defenseless to blame for whatever happens to them? No sympathy from you, huh? I don't want to live in that kind of society. Do the actions taken against them worry you, or not? Do you support those actions, or not? Those are the simple questions that define this.

Regardless of what libertarians think, these issues are going to shape 21st century America. I think there is some serious big picture blindness going on right now.


I have already stated the actions of Facebook and Twitter when they've each suspended me repeatedly directly affected me. I was not defenseless. I was to blame. I broke their rules.

I get my TV through DirecTV and internet / phone through a cable company. How much control do I have over their rules they impose upon me?

I learn to adapt to each of their rules to get as much as I can from all mega-corporations without risking losing their services.

Yes, I have no sympathy for profit making corporations that do not take proper measures to protect their corporations from any kind of threats to their survival, whether it be what we are currently witnessing or some form of cyber warfare. They are not defenseless. It is again playing the victim to call them defenseless.

Finally, if this has been some grand collusion / conspiracy among all the giants - Apple / Twitter / Facebook / Amazon / Google ....why have I not yet read from anyone why somehow Microsoft is seemingly missing in action in this conspiracy? What is their reason for being asked to join it but declining to do so? They are truly one of the giants with their installed operating system base and their browser Edge. Have they done anything to control the conservatives? If not, why not?

I have not kept track of where your Trump sympathies have been. But if you have been a Trump supporter then I have to direct your own questions back to you: "Is anyone who leaves themselves defenseless to blame for whatever happens to them? No sympathy from you, huh? I don't want to live in that kind of society."

The Trump society was clearly not one to look out for the common person or the downtrodden.

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by pugchief » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm

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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by doodle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 pm

pugchief wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:41 pm
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What about Big Ag, Big Oil, Big Media? Do they exhibit negative influence on society as well through lobbying efforts or squashing competition? What's to be done?
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