Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

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InsuranceGuy
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Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by InsuranceGuy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:39 pm

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22220 ... ce-capitol
Apparently both Google and Apple have clear rules against violent threats and moderation of content. Apple’s App Store says apps must have “a method for filtering objectionable material from being posted” and “a mechanism to report offensive content.” Google’s Play Store bars apps that “depict or facilitate gratuitous violence or other dangerous activities,” and that “we don’t allow apps that contain or facilitate threats, harassment, or bullying.

Of course users of Parler can still use Chrome or other web browsers in the absence of an app, at least for now.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22218 ... onaldtrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.

Tech companies have moved from passive channels to active shapers of content posted by their users. Policing content in this manner involves disapproving one version of speech while letting another pass.

This computational propaganda amounts to what may well be the most far-reaching censorship operation in history. I cannot support empowering corporate overlords and unaccountable monopolists to regulate and suppress what can be heard.

While I don't use Twitter/Parler, I am glad I have already begun moving away from many of these services. Companies that do not allow for freedom of speech will not receive my patronage.

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.” -George R.R. Martin
Last edited by InsuranceGuy on Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xan
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pm

I'd also like to point out that the closed nature of "app stores" is a major problem. Notice how the open world of the web is unaffected.

Anything that can be done via standards at by not routing through a central company really should be. Only install apps when you absolutely have to.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:39 pm

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22220 ... ce-capitol
Apparently both Google and Apple have clear rules against violent threats and moderation of content. Apple’s App Store says apps must have “a method for filtering objectionable material from being posted” and “a mechanism to report offensive content.” Google’s Play Store bars apps that “depict or facilitate gratuitous violence or other dangerous activities,” and that “we don’t allow apps that contain or facilitate threats, harassment, or bullying.

Of course users of Parler can still use Chrome or other web browsers in the absence of an app, at least for now.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22218 ... onaldtrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.

Tech companies have moved from passive channels to active shapers of content posted by their users. Policing content in this manner involves disapproving one version of speech while letting another pass.

This computational propaganda amounts to what may well be the most far-reaching censorship operation in history. I cannot support empowering corporate overlords and unaccountable monopolists to regulate and suppress what can be heard.

While I don't use Twitter/Parler, I am glad I have already begun moving away from many of these services. Companies that do not allow for freedom of speech will not receive my patronage.


It is definitely NOT a Freedom of Speech issue! Go to any media's web site, e.g., New York Times and see if you have any "Freedom of Speech" when commenting on their articles. Go to any movie theater and tell me you have any "Freedom of Speech" when in it. When you are using the facilities of any private organization, whether real or virtual, you agree to abide by their rules. If you do not like them then do not use what they have to offer.

I echo Doodle. You are criticizing private companies. They can do what they want to do and either they reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of what they do or do not offer. Isn't that the Libertarian way?

Neither Twitter or Facebook was destined to succeed. Anyone else could have created them. If they did not succeed in creating a superior product then they would have never achieved the power that they currently have.

From my experience with Parler tonight I can see why they are way, way, way behind both Facebook and Twitter.

Vinny 10:17
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 pm

It is a major mistake to route communications through such companies. The Internet was designed to avoid exactly that. And now we're just willingly giving it up.

Also, it certainly is a freedom of speech issue. The government is the only entity REQUIRED to honor my freedom of speech. But it certainly is the case that I don't have it if these private companies shut me up. It's just that it's their right to do so. Doesn't mean it isn't an issue.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Maddy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 pm

Seriously, you guys have nothing to say on this topic except that the "apps" have problems?
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:30 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 pm
Seriously, you guys have nothing to say on this topic except that the "apps" have problems?
We're buying more and more into closed ecosystems controlled by single entities. Without that, the censorship you're seeing couldn't take place.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by SomeDude » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:36 pm

Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 pm
Seriously, you guys have nothing to say on this topic except that the "apps" have problems?
Complete control of speech and silencing descent is fine Maddy.......as long as the app has an intuitive interface.

Its sorta like crushing taxes and regulation and stripping us of our bill of rights is fine as long as the mean tweets stop.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Mark Leavy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:42 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:30 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 pm
Seriously, you guys have nothing to say on this topic except that the "apps" have problems?
We're buying more and more into closed ecosystems controlled by single entities. Without that, the censorship you're seeing couldn't take place.
Without that, the censorship you're seeing will require limiting access to banking services, employment and travel.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by Xan » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:43 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:42 pm
Xan wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:30 pm
Maddy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:26 pm
Seriously, you guys have nothing to say on this topic except that the "apps" have problems?
We're buying more and more into closed ecosystems controlled by single entities. Without that, the censorship you're seeing couldn't take place.
Without that, the censorship you're seeing will require limiting access to banking services, employment and travel.
Good points!
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by InsuranceGuy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:53 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 pm
InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:39 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22220 ... ce-capitol
Apparently both Google and Apple have clear rules against violent threats and moderation of content. Apple’s App Store says apps must have “a method for filtering objectionable material from being posted” and “a mechanism to report offensive content.” Google’s Play Store bars apps that “depict or facilitate gratuitous violence or other dangerous activities,” and that “we don’t allow apps that contain or facilitate threats, harassment, or bullying.

Of course users of Parler can still use Chrome or other web browsers in the absence of an app, at least for now.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22218 ... onaldtrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.

Tech companies have moved from passive channels to active shapers of content posted by their users. Policing content in this manner involves disapproving one version of speech while letting another pass.

This computational propaganda amounts to what may well be the most far-reaching censorship operation in history. I cannot support empowering corporate overlords and unaccountable monopolists to regulate and suppress what can be heard.

While I don't use Twitter/Parler, I am glad I have already begun moving away from many of these services. Companies that do not allow for freedom of speech will not receive my patronage.
It is definitely NOT a Freedom of Speech issue! Go to any media's web site, e.g., New York Times and see if you have any "Freedom of Speech" when commenting on their articles. Go to any movie theater and tell me you have any "Freedom of Speech" when in it. When you are using the facilities of any private organization, whether real or virtual, you agree to abide by their rules. If you do not like them then do not use what they have to offer.

I echo Doodle. You are criticizing private companies. They can do what they want to do and either they reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of what they do or do not offer. Isn't that the Libertarian way?

Neither Twitter or Facebook was destined to succeed. Anyone else could have created them. If they did not succeed in creating a superior product then they would have never achieved the power that they currently have.

From my experience with Parler tonight I can see why they are way, way, way behind both Facebook and Twitter.

Vinny 10:17
Nice strawman you have going there. I am criticizing private companies, they can do what they want, which of course is the Libertarian way. Notice I never advocated we get the government involved, simply that I am voting with my feet and advocate others do the same. Saying that freedom of speech doesn't apply to private companies is simply a distraction from the argument at hand.

The fact remains that we are seeing the most widesweeping censorship effort of our time. You can choose to ignore it, accept it, or fight it. The line in the sand has been drawn despite my distaste for many forms of expression that are being censored. The Libertiarian way is about protecting liberties after all.
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by vnatale » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:53 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:21 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:39 pm

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22220 ... ce-capitol
Apparently both Google and Apple have clear rules against violent threats and moderation of content. Apple’s App Store says apps must have “a method for filtering objectionable material from being posted” and “a mechanism to report offensive content.” Google’s Play Store bars apps that “depict or facilitate gratuitous violence or other dangerous activities,” and that “we don’t allow apps that contain or facilitate threats, harassment, or bullying.

Of course users of Parler can still use Chrome or other web browsers in the absence of an app, at least for now.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/8/22218 ... onaldtrump
After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence.

Tech companies have moved from passive channels to active shapers of content posted by their users. Policing content in this manner involves disapproving one version of speech while letting another pass.

This computational propaganda amounts to what may well be the most far-reaching censorship operation in history. I cannot support empowering corporate overlords and unaccountable monopolists to regulate and suppress what can be heard.

While I don't use Twitter/Parler, I am glad I have already begun moving away from many of these services. Companies that do not allow for freedom of speech will not receive my patronage.


It is definitely NOT a Freedom of Speech issue! Go to any media's web site, e.g., New York Times and see if you have any "Freedom of Speech" when commenting on their articles. Go to any movie theater and tell me you have any "Freedom of Speech" when in it. When you are using the facilities of any private organization, whether real or virtual, you agree to abide by their rules. If you do not like them then do not use what they have to offer.

I echo Doodle. You are criticizing private companies. They can do what they want to do and either they reap the benefits or suffer the consequences of what they do or do not offer. Isn't that the Libertarian way?

Neither Twitter or Facebook was destined to succeed. Anyone else could have created them. If they did not succeed in creating a superior product then they would have never achieved the power that they currently have.

From my experience with Parler tonight I can see why they are way, way, way behind both Facebook and Twitter.

Vinny 10:17


Nice strawman you have going there. I am criticizing private companies, they can do what they want, which of course is the Libertarian way. Notice I never advocated we get the government involved, simply that I am voting with my feet and advocate others do the same. Saying that freedom of speech doesn't apply to private companies is simply a distraction from the argument at hand.

The fact remains that we are seeing the most widesweeping censorship effort of our time. You can choose to ignore it, accept it, or fight it. The line in the sand has been drawn despite my distaste for many forms of expression that are being censored.


When your concluding summary sentence is underlined with its theme of "Freedom of Speech" then I don't see how addressing its applicability to private companies is "simply a distraction from the argument at hand".

The armed forces always censor messages from those in the military to those outside of the military.

Censorship is a reality.

If there is going to be complaint about censorship by private companies then the only thing I can see you advocating is a complete "No Rules" environment. Otherwise, any form of rules can be viewed as censorship by someone.

Do we not even have a form of "censorship" here in this forum. We all know that there are certain boundaries of what we can write. Therefore there is no "freedom of speech" within this forum.

"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Censorship continued: first the Parler app then @realDonaldTrump

Post by InsuranceGuy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:41 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01 pm
InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:53 pm
Nice strawman you have going there. I am criticizing private companies, they can do what they want, which of course is the Libertarian way. Notice I never advocated we get the government involved, simply that I am voting with my feet and advocate others do the same. Saying that freedom of speech doesn't apply to private companies is simply a distraction from the argument at hand.

The fact remains that we are seeing the most widesweeping censorship effort of our time. You can choose to ignore it, accept it, or fight it. The line in the sand has been drawn despite my distaste for many forms of expression that are being censored.
When your concluding summary sentence is underlined with its theme of "Freedom of Speech" then I don't see how addressing its applicability to private companies is "simply a distraction from the argument at hand".

The armed forces always censor messages from those in the military to those outside of the military.

Censorship is a reality.

If there is going to be complaint about censorship by private companies then the only thing I can see you advocating is a complete "No Rules" environment. Otherwise, any form of rules can be viewed as censorship by someone.

Do we not even have a form of "censorship" here in this forum. We all know that there are certain boundaries of what we can write. Therefore there is no "freedom of speech" within this forum.
Again you are redefining what I posted, but I'll bite. If you are in the military as a profession and you don't like the extent they censor you, by all means express that frustration and be prepared to take up a new profession. If you don't like the extent your ideas are being censored in this or any forum you participate in then express that frustration and be prepared find a new forum to express your ideas.

The fact remains that social media compaines advertise themselves as a space to share content. Conversations that would have previously taken place in public spaces are now happening online. While I understand that these online conversations are hosted by private companies I feel that there should be more tolerance and less aggressive policing of content to reflect that these same conversations would have more latitude to be expressed in a more public forum.

In the end probably the only thing agree with you is that censorship is a reality. I am not advocating for "no rules", but have been exhausted by the hypocrisy of the big tech firms and I am advocating for people to find healthier places to express themselves where they will have the opportunity to hear opposing views instead of the bubble of the "factcheckers".

EDIT: spelling
Last edited by InsuranceGuy on Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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