Breaking News, Politics version
- vnatale
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Is anyone able to provide to us here today's Wall Street Journal's editorial which calls for Trump to resign?
Thanks
Thanks
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- dualstow
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I’ll supply 3 paragraphs:
But impeachment so late in the term won’t be easy or without rancor. It would further enrage Mr. Trump’s supporters in a way that won’t help Mr. Biden govern, much less heal partisan divisions. It would pour political fuel on Wednesday’s dying embers.
All the more so because Democrats aren’t likely to behave responsibly or with restraint. They are already stumping for impeachment articles that include a litany of anti-Trump grievances over four years. Mrs. Pelosi’s ultimatum Thursday that Mr. Pence trigger the 25th Amendment or she’ll impeach also won’t attract GOP votes.
Democrats would have more impeachment credibility now if they hadn’t abused the process in 2019. A parade of impeachers that includes Russian-collusion promoters Reps. Adam Schiff and Jerrold Nadler would repel more Americans than it would persuade. The mission would look like political revenge, not constitutional enforcement—and Mr. Trump would play it as such until his last breath. Mr. Biden could gain much goodwill if he called off the impeachers in the name of stepping back from annihilationist polItics.
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I believe the conclusion is that it isn't worth it to try to force him out, and that he should (but probably won't) resign on his own.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
There was some interesting discussion on CNN this morning between David Gergen and former Congressman Mike Rogers. The upshot was that we ought to let President elect Biden take the lead because he owns this mess after January 20th. Biden has no appetite for punishing Trump right now, and rightly so. As much as tempers and outrage are calling for punishment of some type, doing so would just further inflame an already very bad situation.
The better thing to do might be a vote of censure in Congress, which would probably pass pretty easily. Pence could call a cabinet meeting, without necessarily acting on the 25th Amendment per se, but instead signaling that the possibility is there. He'd be sending a signal of reassurance to the national security, military apparatus, and global community in doing so. The threat of embarrassment is probably as good a deterrent as any with a personality like Trump.
It would be a brilliant move for Pence because he shows his leadership and preserves his political career, but there's a hedge because he doesn't actually "do" anything that Trump or his supporters can sink their teeth into. All he would have done was hold a classified cabinet meeting and let everyone else speculate about what was discussed.
These guardrails would probably effectively put a leash on Trump for the next 12 days which is the best least bad alternative. Oh and keeping him cut off from social media would probably also be a good thing.
- vnatale
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
90% of input from the public to C-Span today is calling for Trump's impeachment or removal.....
....the host in response to a caller complaint that the host had not been reading anything supporting Trump....
....the host in response to a caller complaint that the host had not been reading anything supporting Trump....
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
- Mountaineer
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I'm thinking when trying to drain the swamp, there were a lot more swamp things than President Trump realized. Do we need more Adrienne Barbeaus?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084745/
.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
- vnatale
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
So what is going on with Parler.com?
I entered three straight of the annoying Captcha's and keep getting this in response?
"Internal server error, developers have been notified"
Why do they ever require a Captcha? Neither Facebook or Twitter require one when logging in.
I entered three straight of the annoying Captcha's and keep getting this in response?
"Internal server error, developers have been notified"
Why do they ever require a Captcha? Neither Facebook or Twitter require one when logging in.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
- vnatale
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
MangoMan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:12 pm
vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:11 am
So what is going on with Parler.com?
I entered three straight of the annoying Captcha's and keep getting this in response?
"Internal server error, developers have been notified"
Why do they ever require a Captcha? Neither Facebook or Twitter require one when logging in.
Parler is probably being hacked by Twitter. Can't have any competition you know.... [/sarcasm]
Or, Parler.com is still at AAA status and not yet Major League? Can you get in?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
- dualstow
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
And that democrats definitely suck, too.
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.tomfoolery wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:48 pmI think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:20 pm
It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.
And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Is there any historical instance of a completely fraudulent election being followed up by an honest one?sophie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pmI think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.tomfoolery wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:48 pmI think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.Cortopassi wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:20 pm
It's over. Trump is done. I think he's sealed his fate. There will be no 2024 run. At this point, he may not even make it as president to Jan 20, 2021.
And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
If we couldn't get a real election with Trump as president, we are not getting one with Biden or Harris in. They can literally change hundreds of thousands of votes and no court or Congress will even hear the evidence. They will vote in the middle of the night to hide their crimes like weasels when no one is watching, just like on election day.
No one has ever voted themselves out of tyranny.
This was the last chance at peaceful resolution. The Government has sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. 40% of the country believes the election was rigged and it's 90% probably of the armed and ex-military. And certainly a large number of the current police and military, just probably not the police in the big cities and certainly not in their leadership.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I see things a little differently. I do not expect the patriots to back down. This is, in the estimation of an overwhelming portion of the population, a do-or-die moment in history, where you either resist the top-to-bottom corruption in government that culminated in a thoroughly fraudulent election or you resign yourself to the complete and total loss of this country. Take a look at what Lindsay Graham was confronted with while walking through an airport today. https://twitter.com/iheartmindy/status/ ... 43904?s=10 He was spat upon and derided by people screaming that he was a "piece of shit," a "traitor." I'd predict that this is only the beginning, with our without Donald Trump.sophie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:54 pm I think Trump has an even stronger chance of not only running in 2024 but of actually winning in 2024. Polarization of the populace works both ways.
I think much will depend on what the Democrats do with their two years of total control of the US government. If they push through a lot of inflammatory things like packing the Supreme Court, passing a wealth tax, and throwing the southern border wide open, they will further antagonize the "deplorables" who will once again make their presence known. A more conciliatory approach is less likely in my view, but it is the only way that the half of the country which is justifiably pretty angry right about now will calm down. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
And I wonder if, with four years to plan, right-wing groups can figure out ways to prevent large-scale voter fraud in the next election. All they really have to do is step up surveillance and stay put in the early hours of the morning when the alleged vote dumping occurred.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Citations please? I've seen numbers that say 40% of people believe there was election fraud. Is that net fraud that helped Biden? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go lower. Is that net fraud that changed the overall outcome? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go down again. Was it fraud that caused the greatest landslide victory in history to turn into a nail-biting win? Well, if that wasn't asked, then the numbers go down further.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:14 pmThis was the last chance at peaceful resolution. The Government has sown the wind and will reap the whirlwind. 40% of the country believes the election was rigged and it's 90% probably of the armed and ex-military. And certainly a large number of the current police and military, just probably not the police in the big cities and certainly not in their leadership.
I recommend a little more skepticism in your news. Remember when you believed that 6 or so states had actually sent competing slates of electors to Washington? If you believe that, then it really does make sense for Congress to be debating which ones to accept. You did believe it, then were corrected, but didn't allow the correction to change your views.
When you read something that is explosive, maybe take a little time to think about it, verify it, before inwardly digesting it. That 40% number is NOT a list of people who want to take up arms against the government. There were ZERO states that sent competing electors.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
I got this song playin' in my head. Just need to come up with some lyrics to accompany the refrain.....Mountaineer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:06 am I'm thinking when trying to drain the swamp, there were a lot more swamp things than President Trump realized.
He fought the swamp and the swamp won
He fought the swamp and the swamp won
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Here you go on the 40% from NPR, unless they are too inflammatory:Xan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:21 pm
Citations please? I've seen numbers that say 40% of people believe there was election fraud. Is that net fraud that helped Biden? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go lower. Is that net fraud that changed the overall outcome? If that wasn't specifically asked, then the numbers go down again. Was it fraud that caused the greatest landslide victory in history to turn into a nail-biting win? Well, if that wasn't asked, then the numbers go down further.
I recommend a little more skepticism in your news. Remember when you believed that 6 or so states had actually sent competing slates of electors to Washington? If you believe that, then it really does make sense for Congress to be debating which ones to accept. You did believe it, then were corrected, but didn't allow the correction to change your views.
When you read something that is explosive, maybe take a little time to think about it, verify it, before inwardly digesting it. That 40% number is NOT a list of people who want to take up arms against the government. There were ZERO states that sent competing electors.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/95109564 ... y-theories
"And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome."
That's 1/3 which is 33%. You can assume they rounded since they didn't use percentages in the article. I've seen the chart from the last few days, should have come from this NPR poll but I can't find it on their site. Something like 78% of Repubs, 6% of Dems, and 40% of independents which ends up being about 40% of the country since there's allegedly more Dems.
Regarding electors:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/alternative-p ... 55724.html
Quote "Having exhausted all other options, Donald Trump and the die-hard supporters of “Stop the Steal” have settled on the notion of getting Congress to count alternative slates of electors from seven states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — who cast their states’ votes for Trump despite certified popular vote totals showing Trump lost those states.”"
This is from the National Review, a very anti-Trump publication. Is that an inflammatory whatever?
Yes these electors were not certified by their respective secretaries of state, only the Biden electors were. No I do not know if Pence had envelopes with the Trump votes. Reliable information on that detail will probably be impossible to get. If he did, he could certainly say he's got sets of competing electors, and per the constitution the State legislatures need to return to him a verdict on which are legit. PUT THEM TO A VOTE.
He could have also set the votes aside from the obvious fraud states. It doesn't matter what happens after that, if he's "successful" or not. Instead he threw in with the fraud and the enemy of the American people.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... aud_likelyForty-seven percent (47%) say it’s likely that Democrats stole voters or destroyed pro-Trump ballots in several states to ensure that Joe Biden would win. Forty-nine percent (49%) consider that unlikely. This includes 36% who say voter fraud was Very Likely and 39% who think it was Not At All Likely. These findings are little changed from mid-November.
Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans say it’s Very Likely the Democrats stole the election, a view shared by 17% of Democrats and 28% of voters not affiliated with either major party.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Okay, so we started at 40% who believed there was fraud, now we're down to 33% who believe there was net fraud in the Biden direction. It doesn't say anything about there being sufficient fraud to swing the election, which would be yet a lower number.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 pmHere you go on the 40% from NPR, unless they are too inflammatory:
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/95109564 ... y-theories
"And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome."
That doesn't say that the slates of electors even exist. It just says what the strategy of the die-hards is. Please make sure you're reading carefully!SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 pmRegarding electors:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/alternative-p ... 55724.html
Quote "Having exhausted all other options, Donald Trump and the die-hard supporters of “Stop the Steal” have settled on the notion of getting Congress to count alternative slates of electors from seven states — Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — who cast their states’ votes for Trump despite certified popular vote totals showing Trump lost those states.”"
This is from the National Review, a very anti-Trump publication. Is that an inflammatory whatever?
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:03 am40+ police injured in this "mostly peaceful" riot?
Also, if a black person had been so proudly sitting in Nancy Pelosi's chair do you think he would NOT have been arrested as the actual guy who did that has not been arrested and who is bragging about sitting in that chair and not being arrested?
Man Who Posed for Photos at Desk in Pelosi’s Office Arrested
- dualstow
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
No doubt.
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000
That's the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller
That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"
Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.
You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.
Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pmhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000
That's the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller
That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"
Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.
You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.
Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
You are falling for Vox's sophistry. Media outlets use certain words or phrases to manipulate the views of readers. They do it because it works well with a lot of people. It's like when they call the BLM rioters "protestors" then calling the election-fraud protestors "rioters"Xan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pmhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000
That's the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller
That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"
Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.
You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.
Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
It isn't sophistry. Electors are sent by their states. If you're not sent by the state government then you're not an elector.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:23 pmYou are falling for Vox's sophistry. Media outlets use certain words or phrases to manipulate the views of readers. They do it because it works well with a lot of people. It's like when they call the BLM rioters "protestors" then calling the election-fraud protestors "rioters"Xan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:08 pm"Trump's Chosen Electors"? You don't get to choose your own electors. They weren't just not certified by the secretary of state, they weren't certified by anybody. Just because you claim to be an elector doesn't make you one.SomeDude wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 pmhttps://www.wsj.com/articles/republican ... 1609164000
That's the Wall Street Journal.
https://www.vox.com/22173990/electoral- ... hen-miller
That's Vox. Quote "And Trump’s chosen electors did indeed meet in states including Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada, and Michigan to cast their votes for Trump"
Jesus Christ I'm wasting all my political posts on this. This is the last one. I literally only had to google "alternate electors" and this was the 2nd and 3rd.
You can say that the competing electors were not certified by their secretary's of state, but competing sets of electors for certain states came in.
Bottom line......Pence counted the votes based on fraud, and congress certified them.....fallout is inevitable. Surely they know that, and are looking forward to the fight.
Re: Breaking News, Politics version
Virtually ALL of the widely-followed conservative voices have been disappeared from Twitter. The last purge occurred just a couple of hours ago, which took down another huge swath. Android and Apple users are unable to get access to alternative conservative sites. For all practical purposes, the internet has gone mostly dark for one side of the political divide.
Who would have thought this could happen in America? The husband of a friend, who resides in Germany, expressed astonishment this evening at the complacency of the American public. He said that what's happening here is shudderingly similar to the events of Germany 1930s.
The Left has declared war on the rest of the country. I do not expect this to end well.
Who would have thought this could happen in America? The husband of a friend, who resides in Germany, expressed astonishment this evening at the complacency of the American public. He said that what's happening here is shudderingly similar to the events of Germany 1930s.
The Left has declared war on the rest of the country. I do not expect this to end well.
Last edited by Maddy on Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- dualstow
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Re: Breaking News, Politics version
9pm EST Explosions in Iran (Isfahan) and Syria and Iraq. Not yet confirmed.