Is there still no evidence of massive fraud in Georgia?

[vnatale]

While we're tossing around wild unsubstantiated predictions...here's mine. Trump's giant slush fund being raised on the backs of gullible people who have been convinced of fraud is being funneled into bribing people to testify to things that never happened. If in fact they are convicted of perjury Trump has told them he will pardon them before leaving office...which he won't because you can't trust anything he says. Eventually the whole nefarious scheme to steal the election will come to light and Trump crime syndicate family will be spend the rest of their lives in disgrace.

Even if NOTHING of what you predict occurs, the last clause of your last sentence will still happen.

Vinny

[pp4me]

While we're tossing around wild unsubstantiated predictions...here's mine. Trump's giant slush fund being raised on the backs of gullible people who have been convinced of fraud is being funneled into bribing people to testify to things that never happened. If in fact they are convicted of perjury Trump has told them he will pardon them before leaving office...which he won't because you can't trust anything he says. Eventually the whole nefarious scheme to steal the election will come to light and Trump crime syndicate family will be spend the rest of their lives in disgrace.

Even if NOTHING of what you predict occurs, the last clause of your last sentence will still happen.

Vinny

I think this will all depend on the books you read and movies you watch that reinforce what you are already prone to believe. I don't remember much before the Kennedy's but there have been plenty of books written about the Kennedy Crime family, the Bush Crime family, and the Clintons. I don't think LBJ or Nixon had much of a family legacy so they were mostly all on their own. I have only seen a few for Obama so far but I'm sure there will be more to come. I suspect Biden will be generating many more, probably a lot of them in the works as we speak.

Jimmy Carter only had his brother Billy and his gas station so not much to go on there except for I will always remember "Billy Beer".

How much of it is true? Who the hell knows.

[doodle]

While we're tossing around wild unsubstantiated predictions...here's mine. Trump's giant slush fund being raised on the backs of gullible people who have been convinced of fraud is being funneled into bribing people to testify to things that never happened. If in fact they are convicted of perjury Trump has told them he will pardon them before leaving office...which he won't because you can't trust anything he says. Eventually the whole nefarious scheme to steal the election will come to light and Trump crime syndicate family will be spend the rest of their lives in disgrace.

Even if NOTHING of what you predict occurs, the last clause of your last sentence will still happen.

Vinny

How much of it is true? Who the hell knows.

I have a feeling in the case of Trump we might actually one day find the answer to that question. I'm envisioning something like the downfall of Al Capone.

[pp4me]

While we're tossing around wild unsubstantiated predictions...here's mine. Trump's giant slush fund being raised on the backs of gullible people who have been convinced of fraud is being funneled into bribing people to testify to things that never happened. If in fact they are convicted of perjury Trump has told them he will pardon them before leaving office...which he won't because you can't trust anything he says. Eventually the whole nefarious scheme to steal the election will come to light and Trump crime syndicate family will be spend the rest of their lives in disgrace.

Even if NOTHING of what you predict occurs, the last clause of your last sentence will still happen.

Vinny

How much of it is true? Who the hell knows.

I have a feeling in the case of Trump we might actually one day find the answer to that question. I'm envisioning something like the downfall of Al Capone.

Feelings.... nothing more than feelings.... whoa, whoa, whoa feelings

[Cortopassi]

Wait a second pp4me, you've been around a while, why does your info show just joined? Or who are you?!

[doodle]

While we're tossing around wild unsubstantiated predictions...here's mine. Trump's giant slush fund being raised on the backs of gullible people who have been convinced of fraud is being funneled into bribing people to testify to things that never happened. If in fact they are convicted of perjury Trump has told them he will pardon them before leaving office...which he won't because you can't trust anything he says. Eventually the whole nefarious scheme to steal the election will come to light and Trump crime syndicate family will be spend the rest of their lives in disgrace.

Even if NOTHING of what you predict occurs, the last clause of your last sentence will still happen.

Vinny

How much of it is true? Who the hell knows.

I have a feeling in the case of Trump we might actually one day find the answer to that question. I'm envisioning something like the downfall of Al Capone.

Feelings.... nothing more than feelings.... whoa, whoa, whoa feelings

My shrink says I need to practice acknowledging other people's feelings instead of invalidating them

[Tortoise]

Wait a second pp4me, you've been around a while, why does your info show just joined? Or who are you?!

I brought that up the other day, too. The old username was pp4me, but the new one is pp4me4.

[GT]

Wait a second pp4me, you've been around a while, why does your info show just joined? Or who are you?!

yeah - and a Jr member as well - Should he even be allowed to post yet

[Xan]

There's no restriction on posting; members can post immediately.

It does appear that this pp4me4 and pp4me are the same. I've reached out to him to see about resolving login problems and merging the two accounts.

[doodle]

This from Georgia Public Broadcasting regarding video evidence presented by Mr. G

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/04/f ... aud-claim

No, there were no 'suitcases of ballots' counted in secret
The most viral claim from the hearing is a 90-second clip of surveillance footage from Fulton County's tabulation center set up at State Farm Arena. Culled from hours of vote counting, the short clip allegedly shows election workers bringing suitcases of ballots out from underneath a table to be counted in secret after Republican monitors were told to go home.

But that's not what was shown and the claims misunderstand the laws and rules around counting.

State and county officials, including investigators for the secretary of state's office, said that the video clip making the rounds show the normal tabulation process. No monitors were told to leave, but Republican monitors and members of the media left when some election employees called "cutters" wrapped up for the night.

Georgia law § 21-2-408 spells out the rules for partisan poll watchers, allowing them to be present and monitor aspects of the elections process. But having monitors there is not required — and in fact, Democrats did not have monitors present at that time.

As for the so-called suitcase full of ballots allegedly removed from under the table? It was empty, the state's investigator said.

"There wasn't a bin that had ballots in it under the table," Frances Watson told Lead Stories. "It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table."

Furthermore, elections officials say there was nothing abnormal about the tabulation of ballots shown on the video.

"What the video shows is that they have pulled out plastic bins from underneath the desks," Fulton elections director Rick Barron said Friday morning. "It was normal processing that occurred there, as Gabe Sterling from the state explained this morning."

Sterling, the state's voting system implementation manager, said that investigators for the state watched the full surveillance video from Election Day and said those bins of ballots were already there and accounted for earlier in the day, while both monitors and the media were there.

A monitor appointed by the state election board had also briefly left and returned at 11:52 p.m. and another state investigator was there starting at 12:15 a.m. The final ballots were scanned around 12:43 a.m.

So no ballots were illegally counted in secret, there was no "suitcase" of ballots being added into the totals. The clip is misleading and the claims untrue.

[Mountaineer]

This from Georgia Public Broadcasting regarding video evidence presented by Mr. G

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/04/f ... aud-claim

No, there were no 'suitcases of ballots' counted in secret
The most viral claim from the hearing is a 90-second clip of surveillance footage from Fulton County's tabulation center set up at State Farm Arena. Culled from hours of vote counting, the short clip allegedly shows election workers bringing suitcases of ballots out from underneath a table to be counted in secret after Republican monitors were told to go home.

But that's not what was shown and the claims misunderstand the laws and rules around counting.

State and county officials, including investigators for the secretary of state's office, said that the video clip making the rounds show the normal tabulation process. No monitors were told to leave, but Republican monitors and members of the media left when some election employees called "cutters" wrapped up for the night.

Georgia law § 21-2-408 spells out the rules for partisan poll watchers, allowing them to be present and monitor aspects of the elections process. But having monitors there is not required — and in fact, Democrats did not have monitors present at that time.

As for the so-called suitcase full of ballots allegedly removed from under the table? It was empty, the state's investigator said.

"There wasn't a bin that had ballots in it under the table," Frances Watson told Lead Stories. "It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table."

Furthermore, elections officials say there was nothing abnormal about the tabulation of ballots shown on the video.

"What the video shows is that they have pulled out plastic bins from underneath the desks," Fulton elections director Rick Barron said Friday morning. "It was normal processing that occurred there, as Gabe Sterling from the state explained this morning."

Sterling, the state's voting system implementation manager, said that investigators for the state watched the full surveillance video from Election Day and said those bins of ballots were already there and accounted for earlier in the day, while both monitors and the media were there.

A monitor appointed by the state election board had also briefly left and returned at 11:52 p.m. and another state investigator was there starting at 12:15 a.m. The final ballots were scanned around 12:43 a.m.

So no ballots were illegally counted in secret, there was no "suitcase" of ballots being added into the totals. The clip is misleading and the claims untrue.

Who to believe, and why? What is the objective standard of truth to measure against?

[doodle]

Any "Public Broadcasting" report should be given exactly as much weight as a report from a newspaper like the New York Times, i.e., none at all.

Lol. I might take that comment more seriously from someone who doesn't source all his information from the belly of the right-wing blogosphere.

[doodle]

Who to believe, and why? What is the objective standard of truth to measure against?

I guess the question I have in response is why do you have so much trouble believing the opinion of the courts, the attorney general, the governor and sec of state of georgia, the head of election security, and other countless experts and insiders on both sides of the political aisle? On the other hand you seem very disposed to believe the continued accusations of a man who is motivated by his own personal narcissism to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding fraud in order to shelter his ego from the fact that he lost an election.

[doodle]

To continue on that question do you believe that it's useful to judge the potential honesty or dishonesty of a person's behavior in the context of their past actions? That maybe certain patterns emerge in a person's behavior that can allow us to evaluate the seriousness with which we should listen to their claims if repetitive patterns emerge?

For example.

Do you believe that Ted Cruz committed widespread fraud in 2016 in order to win Iowa caucus and that Trump had solid evidence of that? Or, do you think Trump might have just been baselessly shouting foul in order to dull the pain of his loss?

En7ImnCWEAQZ9jh.jpeg (76.41 KiB) Viewed 3249 times

En7ImnEXUAMN6-l.jpeg (79.11 KiB) Viewed 3249 times

Do you believe that Trump had evidence that millions of illegal votes occured, in the general election? Or was he again just making baseless accusations?

Screen_Shot_2016_11_27_at_4.17.23_PM.jpeg (111.73 KiB) Viewed 3249 times

I guess what puzzles me is why you are so eager to believe Trump this time when every other person and even those that have stood by him through thick and thin have said they cannot see any evidence to suggest there was widespread fraud?

[SomeDude]

This just in, the fraudsters have released a statement saying there was no fraud. See tech, you kooky Trump lover. Next time get the FACTs right and stop believing your lying eyes!

[SomeDude]

Didn't we already establish Trump was right about Cruz in Iowa? Cruz's campaign put out lies that Ben Carson had dropped out and endorsed Cruz, and Ben was polling very high. This was a scandal at least for a few weeks.

It's inedible that anyone on planet earth could still be a fraud denier. This can only be explained by TDS.

When the conspirators start confessing to save themselves, there will still be hard core deniers.

[doodle]

This just in, the fraudsters have released a statement saying there was no fraud. See tech, you kooky Trump lover. Next time get the FACTs right and stop believing your lying eyes!

I don't think anyone of us really has an idea of what we're looking at in that tiny 90 second clip. At the end of the day we are probably going to have to let the lawyers and courts decide and listen to the leaders in charge of that state as to the validity of the election. Being that both GA Republican Governor and Sec of State have said they don't see any evidence of fraud, as well as judges nominated by Trump, as well as Bill Barr...one of the presidents staunchest allies, and countless insiders like Chris Christie....why do you continue to lend such weight to the accusations of man that shouts cheating and fraud anytime he loses? And why does the cheating and fraud always seem to occur against him and not in his favor?

[doodle]

Didn't we already establish Trump was right about Cruz in Iowa? Cruz's campaign put out lies that Ben Carson had dropped out and endorsed Cruz, and Ben was polling very high. This was a scandal at least for a few weeks.

It's inedible that anyone on planet earth could still be a fraud denier. This can only be explained by TDS.

When the conspirators start confessing to save themselves, there will still be hard core deniers.

I don't know anything about that...but just to get things straight, Cruz lied during his campaign but Trump always told the truth and therefore Cruz committed fraud? I'm trying to piece together your logic here.

[pp4me]

Wait a second pp4me, you've been around a while, why does your info show just joined? Or who are you?!

yeah - and a Jr member as well - Should he even be allowed to post yet

I'm pp4me. Xan is fixing it for me.

[doodle]

I think you should change to pp4me4sho'

[Ad Orientem]

Once again, Trumpist lies and manufactured "evidence"...

* Video Doesn’t Show ‘Suitcases’ of Illegal Ballots in Georgia... https://www.factcheck.org/2020/12/vide ... n-georgia/

* Fact-checking claims about Fulton County's election | These 'suitcases' are actually ballot containers... https://www.11alive.com/article/news/po ... 9dd9dcb888

* No, Georgia election workers didn’t kick out observers and illegally count ‘suitcases’ of ballots... https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... t-observe/

* No, Atlanta Didn’t Count Illegal Ballots In Secret (Or In Suitcases)... https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2 ... 765985e5a4

* Surveillance tape breeds false fraud claims in Georgia... https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... f582a6659e

[Mountaineer]

Who to believe, and why? What is the objective standard of truth to measure against?

I guess the question I have in response is why do you have so much trouble believing the opinion of the courts, the attorney general, the governor and sec of state of georgia, the head of election security, and other countless experts and insiders on both sides of the political aisle? On the other hand you seem very disposed to believe the continued accusations of a man who is motivated by his own personal narcissism to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding fraud in order to shelter his ego from the fact that he lost an election.

In general, the former are foxes guarding the hen house. The latter is more of a skunk guarding the hen house. Most hens, especially the mature ones, but not all hens or many of their chicks and eggs, will fare better with the latter.

[doodle]

Who to believe, and why? What is the objective standard of truth to measure against?

I guess the question I have in response is why do you have so much trouble believing the opinion of the courts, the attorney general, the governor and sec of state of georgia, the head of election security, and other countless experts and insiders on both sides of the political aisle? On the other hand you seem very disposed to believe the continued accusations of a man who is motivated by his own personal narcissism to make all manner of outlandish claims regarding fraud in order to shelter his ego from the fact that he lost an election.

In general, the former are foxes guarding the hen house. The latter is more of a skunk guarding the hen house. Most hens, especially the mature ones, but not all hens or many of their chicks and eggs, will fare better with the latter.

I wouldn't classify things that way, but I can see how if you did it could lead to the beliefs that you do have regarding Trump.

[GT]

Wait a second pp4me, you've been around a while, why does your info show just joined? Or who are you?!

yeah - and a Jr member as well - Should he even be allowed to post yet

I'm pp4me. Xan is fixing it for me.

My comment was in jest - sorry, should have put a smiley face at the end

[doodle]

Rush Limbaugh says Trump supporters are coming across as 'kooks' in their legal efforts to overturn the election and demands President gets serious and lays out evidence before its too late

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti ... tion.html