Dems versus Republicans Vs Libertarians

[SomeDude]

I thought Orangemanbad was one word.

[Tortoise]

I thought Orangemanbad was one word.

Orangeman is bad by definition, so Orangemanbad is redundant and can be shortened to just Orangeman.

[pmward]

Do we really have to divide people up into buckets? Isn't this already the root everything that is wrong with our current society? Why not just let people's opinions be their opinions? Especially since you clearly did not use objective language in each of those buckets, your own subjective bias shines through in your word choice making one of those buckets sound much better than the others.

[Mountaineer]

I frequently see posters here pointing fingers at the "other side", me included. Such as "well Liberals support X" to which someone here with liberal leanings replies "oh yeah, well, Republicans Y!"

I could be wrong, but I think there's very few republicans here. I imagine most non-liberals here are libertarians. And personally when I hear someone say "But Republicans Y!" I just shrug and think, who cares, I'm not republican?

Based on the post contents, I assume the breakdowns to be more like:

GROUP 1) Libertarians who support Trump or at least who oppose Biden because of crazy leftist policies. But are not republican and dislike republicans too to some extent, except for the principle of "the enemy of our enemy is our friend." This group is about personal responsibility and freedom.

GROUP 2) Self-purported Centrists who hate Orangeman because of his personality. I think there's a handful of people here that fall under this criteria, such as "I voted for Trump in 2016, but Orangeman bad and now I voted for Biden, even though maybe I dislike some or most of Biden's policies, but Orangeman bad." This group may or may not associate themselves with the Democratic party, but they know Orangeman bad. And they usually dislike Republicans, but not always.

GROUP 3) True Leftists. They hate Orangeman, and actually don't even like Biden because Biden won't go far enough, but at least he's not Orangeman. They would have wanted a Bernie Sanders or Karl Marx candidate in office. These are the people who argue socialism isn't communism and the answer to X problem is government. We need more government, bigger government, that will fix the problem. Corporations are bad. Rich people are exploitative. Poor people are poor because of the wealthy exploiting them. Black people are poor because of a history of slavery that no other group/race could have overcome. Immigration great, need more of that. Redistribute all of the moneys. Print more money, MMT doesn't cause inflation.

Those seem to be the three groups of posters here. I haven't seen actual Republicans here. Debate me.

You might start a poll. See who dances to which category.

[pmward]

Do we really have to divide people up into buckets? Isn't this already the root everything that is wrong with our current society? Why not just let people's opinions be their opinions? Especially since you clearly did not use objective language in each of those buckets, your own subjective bias shines through in your word choice making one of those buckets sound much better than the others.

Because it's easier to understand why someone might have a bias if you are able to categorize their politics.

Yes, but the problem is in trying to categorize someone, you're always going to make false assumptions.

[glennds]

Do we really have to divide people up into buckets? Isn't this already the root everything that is wrong with our current society? Why not just let people's opinions be their opinions? Especially since you clearly did not use objective language in each of those buckets, your own subjective bias shines through in your word choice making one of those buckets sound much better than the others.

Because it's easier to understand why someone might have a bias if you are able to categorize their politics.

Except that it's an exercise in futility to accurately categorize people's politics, and if that weren't enough, it is equally fraught to try and draw inferences from the category even if you get it right.

There are just too many variables and combinations.
Example, many people think that black Americans are anti-police. Over the weekend I saw a survey that revealed 60% of black respondents were NOT opposed to increased police presence in their neighborhoods.
Many think minorities are liberal. Well minorities are not one big monolith, and it has been shown that the life experience, worldview and politics vary dramatically among and between Native Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, and Hispanics. These differences become more varied even within immigrant groups depending on when they emigrated to the US and under what conditions.

There are fiscally conservative, socially liberal Republicans, and there are socially conservative, fiscally liberal Republicans. Same goes for Democrats. Many Independents can swing either way on most issues depending on many circumstantial factors.
I have heard of ultra Conservatives referring to people as "Leftists" when in reality the people they are referring to are themselves conservatives, but just not as extreme as the ultra conservatives, so Leftist in this context means one person just being left of another even though they are both in the Right side of the spectrum!

Here's a self-assessment. I identified as a Republican before, during and immediately after the Reagan years. This stopped during the period when Gingrich, the Christian Coalition and Grover Norquist moved the Republican Party further right ideologically and at the same time mounted a warfare style of politics.
The Bush 43 years maintained it, and then the Tea Party movement pushed the line even further in reaction to the Obama presidency. And now Conservatism means adoption of conspiracy theories about Trilateral commissions, Weimar America, the rise of Marxism, pedophile rings and other outlandish nonsense. So for me, I feel I've stayed in the same place more or less, but the defining line of Republicanism (or Conservativism) has changed, and like gerrymandering, it's as though I'm now in a different district even though I never moved (ideologically speaking).

So how do you categorize when the categories themselves are not static, or at the very least the divisions between them are subjective?

[vnatale]

Do we really have to divide people up into buckets? Isn't this already the root everything that is wrong with our current society? Why not just let people's opinions be their opinions? Especially since you clearly did not use objective language in each of those buckets, your own subjective bias shines through in your word choice making one of those buckets sound much better than the others.

Because it's easier to understand why someone might have a bias if you are able to categorize their politics.

Except that it's an exercise in futility to accurately categorize people's politics, and if that weren't enough, it is equally fraught to try and draw inferences from the category even if you get it right.

There are just too many variables and combinations.
Example, many people think that black Americans are anti-police. Over the weekend I saw a survey that revealed 60% of black respondents were NOT opposed to increased police presence in their neighborhoods.
Many think minorities are liberal. Well minorities are not one big monolith, and it has been shown that the life experience, worldview and politics vary dramatically among and between Native Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, and Hispanics. These differences become more varied even within immigrant groups depending on when they emigrated to the US and under what conditions.

There are fiscally conservative, socially liberal Republicans, and there are socially conservative, fiscally liberal Republicans. Same goes for Democrats. Many Independents can swing either way on most issues depending on many circumstantial factors.
I have heard of ultra Conservatives referring to people as "Leftists" when in reality the people they are referring to are themselves conservatives, but just not as extreme as the ultra conservatives, so Leftist in this context means one person just being left of another even though they are both in the Right side of the spectrum!

Here's a self-assessment. I identified as a Republican before, during and immediately after the Reagan years. This stopped during the period when Gingrich, the Christian Coalition and Grover Norquist moved the Republican Party further right ideologically and at the same time mounted a warfare style of politics.
The Bush 43 years maintained it, and then the Tea Party movement pushed the line even further in reaction to the Obama presidency. And now Conservatism means adoption of conspiracy theories about Trilateral commissions, Weimar America, the rise of Marxism, pedophile rings and other outlandish nonsense. So for me, I feel I've stayed in the same place more or less, but the defining line of Republicanism (or Conservativism) has changed, and like gerrymandering, it's as though I'm now in a different district even though I never moved (ideologically speaking).

So how do you categorize when the categories themselves are not static, or at the very least the divisions between them are subjective?

Excellent!

Vinny

[vnatale]

I frequently see posters here pointing fingers at the "other side", me included. Such as "well Liberals support X" to which someone here with liberal leanings replies "oh yeah, well, Republicans Y!"

I could be wrong, but I think there's very few republicans here. I imagine most non-liberals here are libertarians. And personally when I hear someone say "But Republicans Y!" I just shrug and think, who cares, I'm not republican?

Based on the post contents, I assume the breakdowns to be more like:

GROUP 1) Libertarians who support Trump or at least who oppose Biden because of crazy leftist policies. But are not republican and dislike republicans too to some extent, except for the principle of "the enemy of our enemy is our friend." This group is about personal responsibility and freedom.

GROUP 2) Self-purported Centrists who hate Orangeman because of his personality. I think there's a handful of people here that fall under this criteria, such as "I voted for Trump in 2016, but Orangeman bad and now I voted for Biden, even though maybe I dislike some or most of Biden's policies, but Orangeman bad." This group may or may not associate themselves with the Democratic party, but they know Orangeman bad. And they usually dislike Republicans, but not always.

GROUP 3) True Leftists. They hate Orangeman, and actually don't even like Biden because Biden won't go far enough, but at least he's not Orangeman. They would have wanted a Bernie Sanders or Karl Marx candidate in office. These are the people who argue socialism isn't communism and the answer to X problem is government. We need more government, bigger government, that will fix the problem. Corporations are bad. Rich people are exploitative. Poor people are poor because of the wealthy exploiting them. Black people are poor because of a history of slavery that no other group/race could have overcome. Immigration great, need more of that. Redistribute all of the moneys. Print more money, MMT doesn't cause inflation.

Those seem to be the three groups of posters here. I haven't seen actual Republicans here. Debate me.

The Democrats are evil. That's all there is to it. Thus, it is imperative to vote for whoever can beat Democrats, and like it or not, that means Republicans.

Accordingly, the Democrats have one enormous achievement I thought was beyond anyone's abilities: they have turned me, an anarcho-capitalist, into a straight-ticket Republican.

The same way for me (though opposite) after having voted for four different parties in the 2004 election, Obama's predecessor caused me to vote straight Democratic in the 2006 election.

After he was fully gone from office I've since voted for Republican governor candidates in Massachusetts.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

After he was fully gone from office I've since voted for Republican governor candidates in Massachusetts.

Is a Massachusetts Republican sort of like a Utah Democrat?

[vnatale]

After he was fully gone from office I've since voted for Republican governor candidates in Massachusetts.

Is a Massachusetts Republican sort of like a Utah Democrat?

Current Utah (?) Republican Senator Romney is a former Republican governor (though I did not vote for him). Our current Republican governor is one of the few Republicans holding any office who has frequently been critical of Trump during these past four years.

I don't know what a Utah Democrat is.

Vinny

[SomeDude]

Accordingly, the Democrats have one enormous achievement I thought was beyond anyone's abilities: they have turned me, an anarcho-capitalist, into a straight-ticket Republican.

I had only ever voted for libertarians until 2016 when i voted and campaigned for Trump. I knocked on doors and made phone calls. He's the only person i voted for.

In 2020 i voted straight ticket Republican. The democrats left me no choice. This was true for a lot of people it seems based on the election results. I mean....every race except the big one lol!