Are they worried about running out of lethal injection materials?

[pmward]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

[Cortopassi]

Yet.

Cue the dramatic music. You have some insight, tech?

[Mountaineer]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

Chloroform or ether aren’t barbaric forms of execution. Nor are multiple bullets aimed accurately into the brain. From the perspective of the executed that is.

[glennds]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

Chloroform or ether aren’t barbaric forms of execution. Nor are multiple bullets aimed accurately into the brain. From the perspective of the executed that is.

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

[Mountaineer]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

Chloroform or ether aren’t barbaric forms of execution. Nor are multiple bullets aimed accurately into the brain. From the perspective of the executed that is.

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

[pmward]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

Chloroform or ether aren’t barbaric forms of execution. Nor are multiple bullets aimed accurately into the brain. From the perspective of the executed that is.

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

How about those that are pro capital punishment and anti-abortion. Same argument can be made in reverse. The logic holds true both directions.

[vnatale]

I really don't understand this move at all. There is a reason why we left these more barbaric forms of execution behind. This seems like a move to a less civilized society not a more civilized society, imo.

Chloroform or ether aren’t barbaric forms of execution. Nor are multiple bullets aimed accurately into the brain. From the perspective of the executed that is.

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

Can not the opposite be stated? Be amazed by those opposed to abortion yet who support capital punishment. I admit the analogy is not quite apt.

Vinny

[glennds]

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

[Tortoise]

How about those that are pro capital punishment and anti-abortion. Same argument can be made in reverse. The logic holds true both directions.

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

No, it doesn't. In the case of capital punishment, the person being killed has been found guilty of a crime that society has deemed worthy of death. By contrast, in the case of abortion, the unborn fetus being killed has not been found guilty of anything.

[Cortopassi]

I've never understood that putting your dog or cat to sleep is humane, but ending your own suffering human life is against the law mostly.

And it also makes me wonder, where we've seen these botched lethal injection executions -- does that happen a lot with dogs and cats and we just don't know, or can't tell, or prefer not to think about it? Otherwise would seem those drugs work better?

[Mountaineer]

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

Agreed. Also consider who of the two cases had the opportunity to commit a crime, other than being conceived of course. Should we endorse killing the innocent (other than having original sin) as well as those who are guilty of actual sin? If yes, why?

[glennds]

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

Agreed. Also consider who of the two cases had the opportunity to commit a crime, other than being conceived of course. Should we endorse killing the innocent (other than having original sin) as well as those who are guilty of actual sin? If yes, why?

It was only a joke.
Guillotine, slice both ways?
Get it? I need to work on my attempts at comedy.....

[Mountaineer]

Ever see the 60 Minutes interview with (former) Federal 9th Circuit Chief Judge Alex Kozinski?
In the wake a a botched lethal injection execution, he raised eyebrows by advocating the use of the guillotine. His comment was - it is proven 100% effective, instantaneous, inexpensive, efficient in all respects.

It was my interpretation that he was actually arguing against the death penalty in general. This is because he went on to say that if we as a society are going to advocate putting human beings to death, then stop trying to sanitize it by coming up with fallible methods like lethal injection, for what appears to be an attempt by all of us to attach a layer of civility to what is in reality a barbaric act.

Of course his clever way of making a point was later overshadowed when he was forced to retire after a slew of accusers came forward during the #me too movement with allegations of all manner of inappropriate conduct. Good times.

Indeed. But nothing really to lose your head over. On a more serious note, I continue to be amazed by those who are against capital punishment but endorse abortion, especially those who endorse it up to and shortly after birth. 🥲

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

Agreed. Also consider who of the two cases had the opportunity to commit a crime, other than being conceived of course. Should we endorse killing the innocent (other than having original sin) as well as those who are guilty of actual sin? If yes, why?

It was only a joke.
Guillotine, slice both ways?
Get it? I need to work on my attempts at comedy.....

I didn’t get it the first time! Now I can say, well done - however I must say I have never seen a guillotine that sliced on the way back up. But now that I consider further, I have not seen one slice on the way down either ... except in the movies. I say, let them eat cake.

[pmward]

How about those that are pro capital punishment and anti-abortion. Same argument can be made in reverse. The logic holds true both directions.

Yes, I think the argument slices both ways.

No, it doesn't. In the case of capital punishment, the person being killed has been found guilty of a crime that society has deemed worthy of death. By contrast, in the case of abortion, the unborn fetus being killed has not been found guilty of anything.

Right. But, since I can assume most Republicans that are against abortion are Christian... killing someone for any reason is the most anti-Christian things one can do, regardless of what they have done. So it does go both ways.

[Tortoise]

Right. But, since I can assume most Republicans that are against abortion are Christian... killing someone for any reason is the most anti-Christian things one can do, regardless of what they have done. So it does go both ways.

Fair enough. In Christianity, the subject of what kinds of justice should be dispensed by God instead of man is one that doesn't seem to have clear-cut answers.

Jesus's statement that he who is sinless should throw the first stone makes it hard for anyone to throw stones since everyone is sinful. On the other hand, if we left all forms of punishment up to God, criminals would soon tear society apart since God tends not to throw thunderbolts from the sky to punish criminals in a timely manner.

[Cortopassi]

I've never understood that putting your dog or cat to sleep is humane, but ending your own suffering human life is against the law mostly.

And it also makes me wonder, where we've seen these botched lethal injection executions -- does that happen a lot with dogs and cats and we just don't know, or can't tell, or prefer not to think about it? Otherwise would seem those drugs work better?

I have a doctor friend who administered some meds to put a pet to sleep. He's a human doctor... who treats humans... not a veternarian. He did this with the idea the pet would go to sleep and die peacefully. He then left the dying pet with his family to go his shift at the hospital.

He came back 10 hours later to find his family in tears because not only was the pet not dead, it was gasping for breath and in obvious horrible pain.

Oops.

Put your pet to sleep my ass! I wonder how often this happens, and the owners feel all happy that they are ending their pet's suffering.

[vnatale]

I've never understood that putting your dog or cat to sleep is humane, but ending your own suffering human life is against the law mostly.

And it also makes me wonder, where we've seen these botched lethal injection executions -- does that happen a lot with dogs and cats and we just don't know, or can't tell, or prefer not to think about it? Otherwise would seem those drugs work better?

I had my beautiful white German Shepherd killed in front of me. The only time I've witnessed it.

My vet volunteered to come to my house, for which I was eternally grateful as I did not want to put her in my car to drive her to her death.

He explained to me that the way it worked was that he was going to give her an overdose of anesthesia. I then imagined that after the injection she would go out and then I'd watch her slowly die...i.e, she would be immediately unconscious from the shot and then her breathing would go slower and slower until it stopped. That thought process left me totally unprepared for how it actually worked after he said to me, "Are you ready?" and I replied with "Yes."

As soon as he gave her the shot while she was standing she immediately flopped over, dead. That was quite shocking to me since I had not been prepared for that quick finality.

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

I highly approve of the guillotine.

But, if you really want inexpensive, painless, 100% effective, no mess, nothing detectable in the autopsy...

The way to go is to flood the room with nitrogen gas.

Your body cannot tell the difference between breathing 70% nitrogen and 25% oxygen and 5% miscellaneous gases versus breathing 100% nitrogen and no other gases.

You just quietly konk out without any feeling of suffocation, pain, smell or poison. Since you are breathing normally and there is no CO2 buildup, none of the sensors in your body recognize that you’re about to die. You just lose consciousness.

[Libertarian666]

I highly approve of the guillotine.

But, if you really want inexpensive, painless, 100% effective, no mess, nothing detectable in the autopsy...

The way to go is to flood the room with nitrogen gas.

Your body cannot tell the difference between breathing 70% nitrogen and 25% oxygen and 5% miscellaneous gases versus breathing 100% nitrogen and no other gases.

You just quietly konk out without any feeling of suffocation, pain, smell or poison. Since you are breathing normally and there is no CO2 buildup, none of the sensors in your body recognize that you’re about to die. You just lose consciousness.

I guess we shouldn't ask how you know this...

[Tortoise]

The way to go is to flood the room with nitrogen gas.

My father, a retired cancer doctor, told me a while back that if he ever gets terminal cancer, he plans to save the health care system a lot of money by just taking a bunch of Tylenol to kill himself. He said it's painless since you lose consciousness and then your liver just shuts down (followed rapidly by the rest of your organs).

Maybe he's full of shit about it being painless, but it's what he told me.

[Mark Leavy]

The way to go is to flood the room with nitrogen gas.

My father, a retired cancer doctor, told me a while back that if he ever gets terminal cancer, he plans to save the health care system a lot of money by just taking a bunch of Tylenol to kill himself. He said it's painless since you lose consciousness and then your liver just shuts down (followed rapidly by the rest of your organs).

Maybe he's full of shit about it being painless, but it's what he told me.

From a first scan of the toxicity studies, it sounds like a slow, painful way to go.
Vomiting, kidney failure, 3 to 4 days to die. And worse... possible survival with massive organ damage.
Definitely barbarous compared to a bullet or a guillotine.

The clinical course of acetaminophen toxicity is divided into four stages.

• During the first stage (30 min to 24 hours), the patient may be asymptomatic or may have emesis.

• In the second stage (18 hours to 72 hours), there may be emesis plus right upper quadrant pain and hypotension.

• In the third stage (72 hours to 96 hours), liver dysfunction is significant with renal failure, coagulopathies, metabolic acidosis, and encephalopathy. Gastrointestinal (GI) symptoms reappear, and death is most common at this stage.

• The fourth stage (4 days to 3 weeks) is marked by recovery.

[Cortopassi]

I highly approve of the guillotine.

But, if you really want inexpensive, painless, 100% effective, no mess, nothing detectable in the autopsy...

The way to go is to flood the room with nitrogen gas.

Your body cannot tell the difference between breathing 70% nitrogen and 25% oxygen and 5% miscellaneous gases versus breathing 100% nitrogen and no other gases.

You just quietly konk out without any feeling of suffocation, pain, smell or poison. Since you are breathing normally and there is no CO2 buildup, none of the sensors in your body recognize that you’re about to die. You just lose consciousness.

I did not know that. I approve. Any idea why isn't this used?

[Tortoise]

From a first scan of the toxicity studies, it sounds like a slow, painful way to go.
Vomiting, kidney failure, 3 to 4 days to die. And worse... possible survival with massive organ damage.
Definitely barbarous compared to a bullet or a guillotine.

Well, shit...

[Mark Leavy]

I did not know that. I approve. Any idea why isn't this used?

No money in it?

[Mark Leavy]

i am fond of something that is likely considered an outlandish idea in the modern world but it seems humane and has plenty of usage in human history as to not be judged as cruel or unusual.
Banishment.
fence off a few thousand acres/ square miles of survivable land, give the criminal a wagon filled with a couple years food, seed, tools, livestock, building materials, how to books, and wish them well.
...

Agreed.