CNN reports Trump's victory path - Shocking!

[Cortopassi]

If the dems ran anyone except Hillary, I would have voted democratic.

Yes, I was hoping for a pivot. And as I see from my late 80s father, changing your stripes as you are older is hard. My bad.

And yes, I knew enough that I was not voting for a saint. But again, it was Trump vs. Hillary. This time, with 4 years as president and Biden as the opponent, it was a no brainer to vote Biden.

[vnatale]

I will state what Vinny and pmward just did: Character Matters. It's on a banner as well on the grade school just down the street (Character Counts). The banner does not say to call everyone names and losers who disagrees with you.

So Trump didn’t call anyone names prior to your voting for him in 2016? Seems to me like Trump has been Trump his whole life.

I think at one point you mentioned that you sort of held your nose when you voted for Trump in 2016 and hoped he might decide to change his crude manners and become more “presidential” after he took office in 2017.

People don’t suddenly change their characters after over 70 years of life just because they happen to start a new job. I suspect that deep down, you felt that you were voting for a guy with little character, so what you were really hoping would change would be the window dressing, not the man’s character.

But the window dressing didn’t change, so you became a never-Trumper.

Almost all politicians lack real character when you get down to it. So we tend to vote based on policy, window dressing, or both.

However holding the position of the most powerful person in the universe is not just happening to start a new job.

The actual Republicans holding office all thought he would do the proverbial "growing into the job".

Almost all people thought he would stop tweeting once he became president.

In other words, a lot of people thought he would act "presidential" once he became president.

Instead, as you describe (with hindsight) he did not change one bit. When you voted for him is that what you expected?

Vinny

[Tortoise]

I didn’t vote in 2016.

To reiterate my main point, I’m just saying that when people say “character matters” in politics, they’re ignoring the basic reality that the vast majority of politicians — especially politicians at the very top of the hierarchy — don’t have exemplary characters. Some politicians are just better at hiding their bad characters than others are.

People who claim to vote based on character are deceiving themselves and are actually voting based on something far more superficial: Window dressing (sometimes called decorum).

[Mountaineer]

Classic style vs. substance discussion.

[SomeDude]

Didn't Biden say multiple times he'd like to punch Trump? Didn't he call people fat who gave him tough questions at town halls? The guy is probably rude as hell down to the core, as well as ridiculously corrupt, warmongering, completely positionless on anything and it appears, increasingly senile.

The difference was as Sophie pointed out, a large portion of the population is very susceptible to propaganda. The propaganda telling them oranangemanbad has not ceased for 5 years, since orangemanbad came down the elevator and said he didn't want Mexican criminals coming across the border.

Then they presented this crooked swamp creature as kindly old grandpa and people fell for it. Thankfully it was far less than 80M. Hopefully that fact and God will spare us from that puppet taking the throne.

[SomeDude]

My wife is a behavioral therapist. On election night we watched FOX (yuck). The photo they had for Biden next to his vote totals and what not had soft smiling eyes and a comforting smile, warm and inviting.

The photo they used for Trump was downright menacing and glaring. She pointed out how this is an obvious psychological trick to affect how the viewer perceives them. And she despises Trump personally because she thinks he's rude! I still got her to vote for everyone's best interest based on substance.

[vnatale]

I didn’t vote in 2016.

To reiterate my main point, I’m just saying that when people say “character matters” in politics, they’re ignoring the basic reality that the vast majority of politicians — especially politicians at the very top of the hierarchy — don’t have exemplary characters. Some politicians are just better at hiding their bad characters than others are.

People who claim to vote based on character are deceiving themselves and are actually voting based on something far more superficial: Window dressing (sometimes called decorum).

Jimmy Carter ceased being president 40 years ago. In the 40 years since he has unceasingly demonstrated the many of the 40 character virtues he possesses. The same virtues he displayed while president.

There are many self proclaimed Christians here.

I'd assume that the ideal president for a Christian would be one who is a Christian with the qualifications and competence to be president.

Absent also being a Christian I'd assume that the next choice would be someone with the qualifications and competence to be a president and while not a proclaimed Christian someone who behaves like a Christian, i.e., possesses and displays many of the 40 character virtues.

Instead we have the paradox of self-proclaimed Evangelical Christians throwing their full support behind an avowed non-Christian who has not one of the 40 character virtues.

It's a clear "ends justify the means" choice and it's quite similar to how our country uses rendition by subjecting people to torture not allowed by our country but whisking them away to other countries that will do it. We don't get our hands dirty because another country has done it. Christians supporting Trump is the same.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Didn't Biden say multiple times he'd like to punch Trump? Didn't he call people fat who gave him tough questions at town halls? The guy is probably rude as hell down to the core, as well as ridiculously corrupt, warmongering, completely positionless on anything and it appears, increasingly senile.

The difference was as Sophie pointed out, a large portion of the population is very susceptible to propaganda. The propaganda telling them oranangemanbad has not ceased for 5 years, since orangemanbad came down the elevator and said he didn't want Mexican criminals coming across the border.

Then they presented this crooked swamp creature as kindly old grandpa and people fell for it. Thankfully it was far less than 80M. Hopefully that fact and God will spare us from that puppet taking the throne.

I'm not sure you were old enough to watch the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court hearings in 1991?

Biden was the head of the judiciary committee for those hearings. During those hearings he clearly revealed to me that he was a coward, had a poor attitude toward women, and was someone of low integrity. I've kept a close watch on him in the intervening nearly 30 years and he's never done anything to change my evaluation of him.

All you say in your first paragraph is either actually true or quite possibly true.

That is why that for first time since I started voting in 1972 I did NOT vote for the Democratic presidential candidate.

Vinny

[glennds]

My wife is a behavioral therapist. On election night we watched FOX (yuck). The photo they had for Biden next to his vote totals and what not had soft smiling eyes and a comforting smile, warm and inviting.

The photo they used for Trump was downright menacing and glaring. She pointed out how this is an obvious psychological trick to affect how the viewer perceives them. And she despises Trump personally because she thinks he's rude! I still got her to vote for everyone's best interest based on substance.

That's an interesting observation, thanks.
You pointed it out in the context of how the media is presenting images. But I think the same concept applies to how politicians package themselves, sometimes very strategically. Go over to Twitter and look at the user account images for both Biden and Trump. In Trump's image he has the scowl, or menacing tough guy look, if that's what you might call it. Biden's is upward looking and smiling, very much like what you described that you saw on Fox. Except here we're talking about the images they each chose for themselves for their Twitter accounts.

I'd love to hear your wife's thoughts on a lot of power body language that Trump in particular uses. His posture when sitting. Putting his hands together in a downward V when sitting. The perma scowl. He smiles very rarely. All of these are power moves designed to convey strength.
FYI, I'm not saying they're bad, so if you're a Trump fan, don't read this as criticism. But I am saying it's not accidental.

[SomeDude]

FYI, I'm not saying they're bad, so if you're a Trump fan, don't read this as criticism. But I am saying it's not accidental.

Not a fan except on a personal level. I like his demeanor and temperament. The patience he shows to the nasty fake news reporters is like the bhudda.

[vnatale]

My wife is a behavioral therapist. On election night we watched FOX (yuck). The photo they had for Biden next to his vote totals and what not had soft smiling eyes and a comforting smile, warm and inviting.

The photo they used for Trump was downright menacing and glaring. She pointed out how this is an obvious psychological trick to affect how the viewer perceives them. And she despises Trump personally because she thinks he's rude! I still got her to vote for everyone's best interest based on substance.

Reminds me of the Zimmerman Trayvon Martin case.

They photoshopped his image to make him look white, and use a 5 year old photo of Trayvon as a 12 year old boy for the "victim" photo.

The fact that the prosecutors in this case were allowed to do what they did is abhorrent. And President Obama got on TV and said "if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon"

Meanwhile all of the facts showed Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and nearly beat him to death before Zimmerman fired a single round to stop him. But that didn't stop the media, nor the political establishment.



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I did read an entire book on the incident and the aftermath. After reading it I never again bought into the Trayvon Martin martyrdom story...

Vinny

[sophie]

Didn't Biden say multiple times he'd like to punch Trump? Didn't he call people fat who gave him tough questions at town halls? The guy is probably rude as hell down to the core, as well as ridiculously corrupt, warmongering, completely positionless on anything and it appears, increasingly senile.

Don't forget the "lying, dog-faced pony soldier" line. That was a good one. We ought to put it on a T-shirt with "Biden/Harris" underneath. Now THAT'S character!! Oh and there's also the allegations of past, shall we say, indiscretions.

If that had been Trump, you can only imagine what CNN would have made of it. With Biden it was politely laughed off or ignored. So what was that again about character?

Sorry guys....it's all about "susceptibility to brainwashing" as SomeDude so aptly put it. As a scientist whose career is all about critical thinking, I happen to have an extremely well honed B-S detector. You really ought to get yourselves one of these. Too bad you can't buy them on Amazon.

[SomeDude]

Kamala built her career by sleeping with a married man.....character!

[Tortoise]

Jimmy Carter ceased being president 40 years ago. In the 40 years since he has unceasingly demonstrated the many of the 40 character virtues he possesses. The same virtues he displayed while president.

I don't know that much about Jimmy Carter, but from the bits and pieces I've heard, it sounds like he had a reasonably good character.

I'm not saying politicians with good characters don't exist (Jimmy Carter and Ron Paul come to mind) -- I'm just saying they're exceedingly rare. The vast majority of politicians, especially at the highest levels of government, are shady and almost certainly lack good characters. The really good ones tend to get filtered out at the lower levels.

[Cortopassi]

Didn't Biden say multiple times he'd like to punch Trump? Didn't he call people fat who gave him tough questions at town halls? The guy is probably rude as hell down to the core, as well as ridiculously corrupt, warmongering, completely positionless on anything and it appears, increasingly senile.

Don't forget the "lying, dog-faced pony soldier" line. That was a good one. We ought to put it on a T-shirt with "Biden/Harris" underneath. Now THAT'S character!! Oh and there's also the allegations of past, shall we say, indiscretions.

If that had been Trump, you can only imagine what CNN would have made of it. With Biden it was politely laughed off or ignored. So what was that again about character?

Sorry guys....it's all about "susceptibility to brainwashing" as SomeDude so aptly put it. As a scientist whose career is all about critical thinking, I happen to have an extremely well honed B-S detector. You really ought to get yourselves one of these. Too bad you can't buy them on Amazon.

Yeah, sophie, got us libtards all figured out. We are totally brainwashed. Open borders, check. Systemic racism, check, Abortion right up to birth, check. Jeez.

Never mind I know Biden isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sure the whole freaking universe would hold him up as a better example of a human being than Trump.

Never mind my engineering degree, and years of dealing with BS myself. Nah, discount it all. We are all idiots, those who can't see through all this BS and see all the winning Trump is doing. Oops, I mean losing. LOSER. The worst word in the world to DJT.

[flyingpylon]

Never mind I know Biden isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sure the whole freaking universe would hold him up as a better example of a human being than Trump.

It will be interesting to see how the history books eventually score this one. Many people consider Biden's character flaws to have a far greater negative impact on our country than Trump's.

But Biden doesn't tweet, so there's that.

[Mountaineer]

Never mind I know Biden isn't perfect, but I'm pretty sure the whole freaking universe would hold him up as a better example of a human being than Trump.

It will be interesting to see how the history books eventually score this one. Many people consider Biden's character flaws to have a far greater negative impact on our country than Trump's.

But Biden doesn't tweet, so there's that.

Yep.

[sophie]

Let's not forget the whole sordid affair in the Ukraine involving Hunter Biden. I'm sure what we already have heard is only scratching the surface, since there's been no serious investigation as of yet.

As I've said MANY times before, I fully acknowledge that Trump can be uncouth and unpolished. But, I long ago decided that manners are the least of the concerns. It really does amaze me that someone would put that at the top of the list, to the exclusion of all else. I mean, Hitler was a pretty polite and suave guy too. So is Kim Jong Un and so was the shah of Iran.

And on a personal level, I've known lots of people whose manners and appearance were classy and polished, but who were morally rotten to the core. Biden is one of that type, and it's a category of people who I happen to abhor - way more so than the person who genuinely tries to do the right thing but breaks every single one of Miss Manner's rules in the process. Conversely, some of the most effective and outstanding people in history were ignored or dismissed initially because their manners and social standing didn't measure up. Look up John Snow for example, the British physician in the mid 1800s who originated the field of epidemiology when he traced a London cholera outbreak to a public water pump in Soho.

[Mountaineer]

Let's not forget the whole sordid affair in the Ukraine involving Hunter Biden. I'm sure what we already have heard is only scratching the surface, since there's been no serious investigation as of yet.

As I've said MANY times before, I fully acknowledge that Trump can be uncouth and unpolished. But, I long ago decided that manners are the least of the concerns. It really does amaze me that someone would put that at the top of the list, to the exclusion of all else. I mean, Hitler was a pretty polite and suave guy too. So is Kim Jong Un and so was the shah of Iran.

And on a personal level, I've known lots of people whose manners and appearance were classy and polished, but who were morally rotten to the core. Biden is one of that type, and it's a category of people who I happen to abhor - way more so than the person who genuinely tries to do the right thing but breaks every single one of Miss Manner's rules in the process. Conversely, some of the most effective and outstanding people in history were ignored or dismissed initially because their manners and social standing didn't measure up. Look up John Snow for example, the British physician in the mid 1800s who originated the field of epidemiology when he traced a London cholera outbreak to a public water pump in Soho.

Very well said, Sophie. Hits the nail on the head from my view of the pew, and is my experience too. As I've said before, I live in Delaware and know the Biden history - the unpublished, unvarnished truth version.

[flyingpylon]

Let's not forget the whole sordid affair in the Ukraine involving Hunter Biden. I'm sure what we already have heard is only scratching the surface, since there's been no serious investigation as of yet.

As I've said MANY times before, I fully acknowledge that Trump can be uncouth and unpolished. But, I long ago decided that manners are the least of the concerns. It really does amaze me that someone would put that at the top of the list, to the exclusion of all else. I mean, Hitler was a pretty polite and suave guy too. So is Kim Jong Un and so was the shah of Iran.

And on a personal level, I've known lots of people whose manners and appearance were classy and polished, but who were morally rotten to the core. Biden is one of that type, and it's a category of people who I happen to abhor - way more so than the person who genuinely tries to do the right thing but breaks every single one of Miss Manner's rules in the process. Conversely, some of the most effective and outstanding people in history were ignored or dismissed initially because their manners and social standing didn't measure up. Look up John Snow for example, the British physician in the mid 1800s who originated the field of epidemiology when he traced a London cholera outbreak to a public water pump in Soho.

It's why I say "decorum is overrated".

Too many people are like "Sure, sell us out to China... as long as you're polite about it."

[Cortopassi]

Trump has no one to blame but himself for losing. But oh boy does he blame everyone else.

For a man who supposedly is a master negotiator, he never figured out that not only did he need to keep his base voting for him, which he did, but that he had to keep those like me who voted for him out of spite at the system and Hillary in 2016.

Which he didn't do enough of.

You can blame the radical, biased, left wing media, the never Trumpers, Fauci, Covid, whatever and whoever the heck you want.

But it is all moot, because he lost people like me.

He never once, that I recall, held a rally that was geared toward inclusion, toward bringing more people to the Trump side. It was all red meat, lock them up, bullying theater for his base.

Just like I could not stomach Hillary in 2016, I could not stomach Trump in 2020, and 80 million others felt the same.

Maybe you guys get a shot again in 2024, but I damn sure hope that the next four years do a lot to move this country toward meeting in the middle.

[pmward]

Trump has no one to blame but himself for losing. But oh boy does he blame everyone else.

For a man who supposedly is a master negotiator, he never figured out that not only did he need to keep his base voting for him, which he did, but that he had to keep those like me who voted for him out of spite at the system and Hillary in 2016.

Which he didn't do enough of.

You can blame the radical, biased, left wing media, the never Trumpers, Fauci, Covid, whatever and whoever the heck you want.

But it is all moot, because he lost people like me.

He never once, that I recall, held a rally that was geared toward inclusion, toward bringing more people to the Trump side. It was all red meat, lock them up, bullying theater for his base.

Just like I could not stomach Hillary in 2016, I could not stomach Trump in 2020, and 80 million others felt the same.

Maybe you guys get a shot again in 2024, but I damn sure hope that the next four years do a lot to move this country toward meeting in the middle.

Yep, not only did Trump lose a lot of moderate Republicans, but what I think is even more important is he lost the young vote. Not only did his young vote go way down this year vs 2016, but young people voted in greater numbers than they have in ages. Trump miserably failed to connect with the young voters, meanwhile Biden did connect with them. This in my opinion was his biggest failure in his strategy. You're right, just holding onto his base was not enough. His core "base" seems bigger than they are simply because they are extremely loud; if you look at numbers instead of volume his core "base" is not greater than half the voting population.

[pmward]

Another thing worth considering, even if you look at this forum, which is traditionally an extremely "right" leaning forum, I would say the amount of people that voted for Biden over Trump is much larger than I would expect out of this forum. Mind you, this is a small sample size, but still if this many people on a "right" leaning forum would vote for Biden, is it really that surprising that a lot of moderate conservatives across the population would split their ticket by voting for Biden and the rest Republican?