The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

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sophie
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by sophie » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:22 am

pmward wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:10 am
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying contract work is bad. I was saying that the specific jobs in question are below minimum wage once you account for expenses.
Would you mind going back and reading my post where I gave concrete examples that very clearly rebut your position?

You'll need to explain why people like to work as contractors for corporations that don't meet your standards. If Uber or similar gig companies are really such a bad deal, what's stopping the Uber driver from quitting and taking a job with an employer that you say is so much better? Frankly, who are you to judge that on behalf of this driver, whose situation you have no knowledge of? Maybe they are taking care of a kid and can only work while the kid is in school? And if they took an employed position with prescribed hours, they'd have to fork out thousands in child care? Just to take one of many possible scenarios.
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by pmward » Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:31 am

sophie wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:22 am
pmward wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:10 am
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying contract work is bad. I was saying that the specific jobs in question are below minimum wage once you account for expenses.
Would you mind going back and reading my post where I gave concrete examples that very clearly rebut your position?

You'll need to explain why people like to work as contractors for corporations that don't meet your standards. If Uber or similar gig companies are really such a bad deal, what's stopping the Uber driver from quitting and taking a job with an employer that you say is so much better? Frankly, who are you to judge that on behalf of this driver, whose situation you have no knowledge of? Maybe they are taking care of a kid and can only work while the kid is in school? And if they took an employed position with prescribed hours, they'd have to fork out thousands in child care? Just to take one of many possible scenarios.
These things make no difference for my position. My argument is that they should be paid more, that's all. My argument also in the macro-economic sense is that them being underpaid is a major contributor to the trend in the wealth gap and deflation. I'm a macro thinker more than anything, so I'm looking big picture here more than at the individual level. I see a deflationary spiral that is currently heading for crisis levels at some point in the coming decade. Really, if you look at every political argument I've made on this entire forum, it always comes back to my worry about this wealth gap divide, the trend in deflation, and the social unrest that come from both. I would like to avoid the crisis that I see brewing both socially and economically. This really is the only topic I care about right now. So, please let's drop the gig work argument because I really don't care enough about it. I asked you some questions above to try to bring these two topic that I do care about, the wealth gap and 13 year trend in deflation, back to Republican populist policy. I'm not trying to argue here, I'm trying to get you all to share what policies Republicans have to address the topics that concern me the most. So I will repost the questions below that I have for you in regards to that topic:
pmward wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:10 am

What is your opinion on the wealth gap and seemingly never ending trend of deflation? What do you see is the solution to these topics? Doing nothing will end in crisis. Doing nothing keeps us in a stagnating fragile economy. So what can we do to avoid that crisis and start to turn things around? I know Republicans are big on tax cuts, and tax cuts certainly can help, but not the Trump style tax cuts, it would need to primarily be lower and middle class tax cuts. What else does this new Republican populism have that would help get us some real wage growth and break the deflationary spiral before it reaches crisis level again?
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sophie
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by sophie » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:02 am

pmward wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:31 am
These things make no difference for my position.
Of course not. End of discussion, then.

I'd like to see this thread get back on track, if you don't mind.
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by pmward » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:03 am

sophie wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:02 am
pmward wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:31 am
These things make no difference for my position.
Of course not. End of discussion, then.

I'd like to see this thread get back on track, if you don't mind.
Please read my questions that I posted twice above. I was trying to bring it back on track but I don't think you've read my full posts. I'm not trying to argue, I have honest questions for you above about Republican populist policy.
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by dualstow » Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:57 pm
dualstow wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:48 pm
{thousand word quote}
This thread is getting really long.
But only one sentence at a time. I wonder how that happens.
You are the master at deleting and getting it right.

Whenever I try to do so and try to decipher what I can easily delete in the end it never comes out right. I spend all this time trying to delete the correct portions and then end up in failure.
Thank you, Vinny. If it’s not manageable, don’t sweat over it.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by glennds » Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:18 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:24 am

2. Every Uber driver I've talked to about the subject. Several have told me they have regular full-time jobs with a long car commute. They signed up with Uber in order to turn those car commutes into extra income - they just pick up rides on their way to and from work. Another one, in San Francisco, told me he was one of a large number of former employees of PG&E (Pacific Gas & Electric) who quit (long story which I don't remember) and switched to driving for Uber. He loved being in charge of his own hours, and they get to deduct things like their cell phone, and of course tax treatment of sole proprietors is way better than that of salaried employees. So there are extra financial benefits beyond getting full control of income.

An interesting perspective on Uber from Mr. Money Mustache:
For example, working for Uber isn’t all it’s cut out to be, according to personal finance blogger Mr. Money Mustache. The anonymous man behind the website, who goes by Pete, retired at 30 and frequently gives advice about finances. He decided to become an Uber driver to see how much contractors for the company really make.

In the past, Uber has claimed drivers in New York City make a median annual income of $90,000, but an independent analysis by loan company Earnest put the number much lower. Uber drivers make an average of $364 a month and a median of $155 a month driving for the ride-sharing company, according to the analysis. The average Uber driver in New York City takes home $25 an hour after commission and sales tax, Uber said in 2014.

However, after car costs such as gas and insurance and time spent driving around between picking up rides, Mr. Money Mustache said he took home only $7 an hour. He criticized the company for advertising gross earnings to drivers instead of net earnings. (Uber didn’t respond to a request for comment.)

“You should never boast about business earnings without subtracting the money spent in the process of running the business,” he said. “So, Uber and Lyft should subtract a reasonable estimate of car costs per mile, for all advertised earnings.”

The cost of driving a personal car, according to the IRS, is about 54 cents per mile. At this rate, driving to pick up riders and waiting for them before a fare begins can be costly. Mr. Money Mustache’s first ride as an Uber driver, for example, included 5 minutes of waiting, 5 minutes of driving, and 1.2 miles driven without being paid, bringing his net fare to $3.37. Another ride, which included 15 minutes of waiting, 5 minutes of driving, and 1.9 miles of paid driving, made his net fare $3.37 as well — but a $5 tip brought his average up higher. “With the financial gain of ride-share driving being negligible, I am surprised that there are so many people who do it,” he wrote.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres ... in%202014.

I can see Uber as a side hustle or form of supplemental income. To make a survivable full time job out of it seems difficult. The concern is that it is basically a magnet for people who would otherwise not qualify for a job, i.e. illegal and undocumented immigrants. Interesting that Uber has been a vocal advocate for immigration, promising a "safe place": https://www.uber.com/us/en/about/divers ... s-at-uber/.

Paper, scissors, rock anyone? Who wins: free market/independent contractor/no exploitation here versus we populists want tough on immigration. With Uber you can only pick one.
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Re: The New Republican Populism (personal Trump references not allowed)

Post by vnatale » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:32 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:57 pm
dualstow wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:33 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:48 pm
{thousand word quote}
This thread is getting really long.
But only one sentence at a time. I wonder how that happens.
You are the master at deleting and getting it right.

Whenever I try to do so and try to decipher what I can easily delete in the end it never comes out right. I spend all this time trying to delete the correct portions and then end up in failure.
Thank you, Vinny. If it’s not manageable, don’t sweat over it.
I did try on that long, long, long one between me and Mountaineer. And, I succeeded on the first try!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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