Gyroscopic Investing

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:31 am

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:21 am How do you explain the many non-presidential elections on all levels won by the Republicans?

Were the tampered or fraudulent ballots only done so for the presidential elections and NONE of the other elections?

That is a basic question that needs to be satisfactorily answered by anyone believing the presidential election was stolen. Why stop there? Why not steal lots of other ones?

Vinny

Who's to say they didn't steal a lot more?

Republicans winning back a lot of seats and holding the Senate despite having twice as many seats up for grabs is an argument that there WAS fraud at the presidential level, not against it.

Unless you believe one of these things:

1. Republican voters turned out in record numbers to enthusiastically vote for their congress people and senators who they love so much but decided to vote for Harris-biden as well.

2. Democrats and liberals came out in record numbers to vote for Harris-biden (millions more than for Obama), but then broke for republicans or otherwise ignored the down ballot races.

Those scenarios seem like wild conspiracy theories to me. Which one of them do you think happened?

Occam's razor - it's much more likely the down ballot stuff had less fraud. If there was too much fraud in the small races that are much more easily verifiable, audits of votes in congressional districts would put the obvious fraud at the presidential level at great risk.

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:13 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:13 pm What I heard a Republican say on C-Span during the last week make sense. This was a Republican who'd served in two Republican administrations. He did not believe that there was any election fraud of any consequence and that all the election results were valid. Under that assumption it says that a lot of people in this country like the Republican brand, policies. But also a lot of them just could not take another four years of Trump so they voted for the alternative.

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:16 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:13 pm What I heard a Republican say on C-Span during the last week make sense. This was a Republican who'd served in two Republican administrations. He did not believe that there was any election fraud of any consequence and that all the election results were valid. Under that assumption it says that a lot of people in this country like the Republican brand, policies. But also a lot of them just could not take another four years of Trump so they voted for the alternative.

Didn't he get more votes than any Republican ever? See I think Trump is wildly popular with Republicans, much more so than anyone else in that party. I can speak for myself personally, I voted for Trump in 2016 and that was literally the ONLY person I voted for. I was like one of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Harris-biden voters that didn't select anyone else. I did vote the state amendments. This year when I voted for Trump, for the first time in my life I voted for Republicans other than him (since he's not really one of them).

He was drawing massive crowds unlike anything even Regan could turn out, with 100 mile caravans or whatever for him.

See I think it's the exact opposite of what the guy on C-span said. Almost all of my friends are Republicans, and love Trump to the point we can't discuss it (since I'm not a big fan of him). They can't see how liberal and socialist he is, but love him like he's a free market guy. He got republicans to turn out big, resulting in them demolishing the "blue wave" the media kept hyping.

Sounds very silly to me to think people came out to vote the down ballot repukes and didn't go for Trump. Much more likely they came out BECAUSE of Trump, and Harris-biden have higher vote counts because there's lots of funny business in 5-6 key states, maybe more.

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

My boss' wife did that in AZ, so I give him hell for that every day. I flipped my wife over from Hillary, and so did another gal I work with since she got married and has kids and more income.

Ultimately this comes down to a few key states and what happened in them. Odd that Ohio would go crushingly for Trump, and MI/PA wouldn't. Very odd that FL would be a relatively easy win, where Trump was supposedly down in the polls, and he'd lose GA where he was supposedly polling up.

Very odd indeed

I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:16 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

Definitely not!

I have a feeling that if SCOTUS hears the case and hands the election to Trump by ruling in favor of the Constitution, the TDS sufferers in this thread won't acknowledge that justice was done. They will probably say something like, "SCOTUS subverted our democracy by overruling the states' legislatures and courts."

To the TDS victim, anything that benefits Trump cannot possibly be called justice.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:56 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm

As someone who grew up in MI... I can tell you it is not odd at all that MI and OH went different ways. The two states hate each other. MI historically is also a blue state, and OH is historically a red state.

I currently live in AZ, and I can tell you that there has been a big shift here over the last 4 years. A lot of moderate Republicans did turn on Trump. A lot of young people that never voted before came out with extreme enthusiasm (if you ask me, it's the young people voting in a higher percentage than normal that won the election for Biden). We also have had a pretty big migration of people from CA over the last 4 years, as a cost of living arbitrage play. So yeah, AZ, especially in all the big cities save Scottsdale (Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson, and Flagstaff) have turned very enthusiastically blue in the last few years.

I continue to fail to understand this phenomenon. The reason these idiots are fleeing CA (and NY & IL for that matter) is because they voted in a bunch of pro-tax big-spend progressives. Now they are abandoning the mess they created by moving away, but then vote the same stupid way that made their previous environment unlivable. Is it that complicated that they don't get it?

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

My boss' wife did that in AZ, so I give him hell for that every day. I flipped my wife over from Hillary, and so did another gal I work with since she got married and has kids and more income.

Ultimately this comes down to a few key states and what happened in them. Odd that Ohio would go crushingly for Trump, and MI/PA wouldn't. Very odd that FL would be a relatively easy win, where Trump was supposedly down in the polls, and he'd lose GA where he was supposedly polling up.

Very odd indeed

I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

As someone who grew up in MI... I can tell you it is not odd at all that MI and OH went different ways. The two states hate each other. MI historically is also a blue state, and OH is historically a red state.

I currently live in AZ, and I can tell you that there has been a big shift here over the last 4 years. A lot of moderate Republicans did turn on Trump. A lot of young people that never voted before came out with extreme enthusiasm (if you ask me, it's the young people voting in a higher percentage than normal that won the election for Biden). We also have had a pretty big migration of people from CA over the last 4 years, as a cost of living arbitrage play. So yeah, AZ, especially in all the big cities save Scottsdale (Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson, and Flagstaff) have turned very enthusiastically blue in the last few years.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:56 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

My boss' wife did that in AZ, so I give him hell for that every day. I flipped my wife over from Hillary, and so did another gal I work with since she got married and has kids and more income.

Ultimately this comes down to a few key states and what happened in them. Odd that Ohio would go crushingly for Trump, and MI/PA wouldn't. Very odd that FL would be a relatively easy win, where Trump was supposedly down in the polls, and he'd lose GA where he was supposedly polling up.

Very odd indeed

I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

As someone who grew up in MI... I can tell you it is not odd at all that MI and OH went different ways. The two states hate each other. MI historically is also a blue state, and OH is historically a red state.

I currently live in AZ, and I can tell you that there has been a big shift here over the last 4 years. A lot of moderate Republicans did turn on Trump. A lot of young people that never voted before came out with extreme enthusiasm (if you ask me, it's the young people voting in a higher percentage than normal that won the election for Biden). We also have had a pretty big migration of people from CA over the last 4 years, as a cost of living arbitrage play. So yeah, AZ, especially in all the big cities save Scottsdale (Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson, and Flagstaff) have turned very enthusiastically blue in the last few years.

I continue to fail to understand this phenomenon. The reason these idiots are fleeing CA (and NY & IL for that matter) is because they voted in a bunch of pro-tax big-spend progressives. Now they are abandoning the mess they created by moving away, but then vote the same stupid way that made their previous environment unlivable. Is it that complicated that they don't get it?

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:55 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

My boss' wife did that in AZ, so I give him hell for that every day. I flipped my wife over from Hillary, and so did another gal I work with since she got married and has kids and more income.

Ultimately this comes down to a few key states and what happened in them. Odd that Ohio would go crushingly for Trump, and MI/PA wouldn't. Very odd that FL would be a relatively easy win, where Trump was supposedly down in the polls, and he'd lose GA where he was supposedly polling up.

Very odd indeed

I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

As someone who grew up in MI... I can tell you it is not odd at all that MI and OH went different ways. The two states hate each other. MI historically is also a blue state, and OH is historically a red state.

I currently live in AZ, and I can tell you that there has been a big shift here over the last 4 years. A lot of moderate Republicans did turn on Trump. A lot of young people that never voted before came out with extreme enthusiasm (if you ask me, it's the young people voting in a higher percentage than normal that won the election for Biden). We also have had a pretty big migration of people from CA over the last 4 years, as a cost of living arbitrage play. So yeah, AZ, especially in all the big cities save Scottsdale (Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson, and Flagstaff) have turned very enthusiastically blue in the last few years.

I closely watched what happened here in AZ in the weeks/months leading up to election day. It's a very simple story of two different strategies, one of which turned out to be more effective than the other in the end.

The Trump campaign basically held rallies and events held by Don Jr., Pence, and Trump himself. These rallies were attended by people who were already devoted supporters.

The Biden campaign held very few events, but instead deployed an extensive network of grass roots community level volunteers who came in from all over the country to work a Get Out The Vote initiative, targeting young demographic areas, minority communities, Native American reservations, and other demographics that historically have had lower voter turnout. A big part of their initiative was helping first time voters register. I bumped into their people at the front entry of a large Asian grocery store where I go for special items every so often. They had a table set up for helping people register. This was maybe two months before the election.
A friend of mine came to AZ for three weeks from the East Coast to volunteer with the Biden campaign for this effort. She speaks Mandarin so they assigned her to the Asian American demographic target areas. She told me the instructions were not even to push Biden/Harris, just try to promote high voter turnout. Some volunteers worked farmer's markets, others worked the Hispanic community. There were hundreds of volunteers involved in this effort at the community level. It was painstaking and conducted without much fanfare.

So long story short, from what I can see Trump did a good job reinforcing the base he already had.
But Biden broadened his base on the thesis that incremental new voters would fall his way and it looks like they did.
I think this was also part of the Stacey Abrams effort in Georgia where it is claimed she helped register over 800,000 new voters.

This is not to promote or bash either candidate. I'm just sharing the campaign strategies I saw deployed on the ground in AZ.
If you believe (or want to believe) the election was stolen through fraud, then you'll probably hate this story, but I watched it all happen.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:56 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:42 pm

SomeDude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:30 pm

I had one of those type people in my house last week. Voted for Trump in 2016. No way would vote for him in 2020.

Vinny

My boss' wife did that in AZ, so I give him hell for that every day. I flipped my wife over from Hillary, and so did another gal I work with since she got married and has kids and more income.

Ultimately this comes down to a few key states and what happened in them. Odd that Ohio would go crushingly for Trump, and MI/PA wouldn't. Very odd that FL would be a relatively easy win, where Trump was supposedly down in the polls, and he'd lose GA where he was supposedly polling up.

Very odd indeed

I wouldn't put the popcorn down just yet.

As someone who grew up in MI... I can tell you it is not odd at all that MI and OH went different ways. The two states hate each other. MI historically is also a blue state, and OH is historically a red state.

I currently live in AZ, and I can tell you that there has been a big shift here over the last 4 years. A lot of moderate Republicans did turn on Trump. A lot of young people that never voted before came out with extreme enthusiasm (if you ask me, it's the young people voting in a higher percentage than normal that won the election for Biden). We also have had a pretty big migration of people from CA over the last 4 years, as a cost of living arbitrage play. So yeah, AZ, especially in all the big cities save Scottsdale (Phoenix, Tempe, Tucson, and Flagstaff) have turned very enthusiastically blue in the last few years.

I continue to fail to understand this phenomenon. The reason these idiots are fleeing CA (and NY & IL for that matter) is because they voted in a bunch of pro-tax big-spend progressives. Now they are abandoning the mess they created by moving away, but then vote the same stupid way that made their previous environment unlivable. Is it that complicated that they don't get it?

glennds wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:55 pm I closely watched what happened here in AZ in the weeks/months leading up to election day. It's a very simple story of two different strategies, one of which turned out to be more effective than the other in the end.

The Trump campaign basically held rallies and events held by Don Jr., Pence, and Trump himself. These rallies were attended by people who were already devoted supporters.

The Biden campaign held very few events, but instead deployed an extensive network of grass roots community level volunteers who came in from all over the country to work a Get Out The Vote initiative, targeting young demographic areas, minority communities, Native American reservations, and other demographics that historically have had lower voter turnout. A big part of their initiative was helping first time voters register. I bumped into their people at the front entry of a large Asian grocery store where I go for special items every so often. They had a table set up for helping people register. This was maybe two months before the election.
A friend of mine came to AZ for three weeks from the East Coast to volunteer with the Biden campaign for this effort. She speaks Mandarin so they assigned her to the Asian American demographic target areas. She told me the instructions were not even to push Biden/Harris, just try to promote high voter turnout. Some volunteers worked farmer's markets, others worked the Hispanic community. There were hundreds of volunteers involved in this effort at the community level. It was painstaking and conducted without much fanfare.

So long story short, from what I can see Trump did a good job reinforcing the base he already had.
Biden broadened his voter base on the thesis that incremental new voters would fall his way and it looks like they did.
I think this was also part of the Stacey Abrams effort in Georgia where it is claimed she helped register over 800,000 new voters.

This is not to promote or bash either candidate. I'm just sharing the campaign strategies I saw deployed on the ground in AZ.

pmward wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:36 am


I wonder how this dynamic will change as the generations progress. The younger generations are basically all in "liberal", and the older generations tend to skew very highly "conservative". Will the younger generations convert more "conservative" as they get older? Or is "conservatism" as we currently know it basically in it's last 10-20 years of it's life?

glennds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:24 pm

pmward wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:36 am


I wonder how this dynamic will change as the generations progress. The younger generations are basically all in "liberal", and the older generations tend to skew very highly "conservative". Will the younger generations convert more "conservative" as they get older? Or is "conservatism" as we currently know it basically in it's last 10-20 years of it's life?

It's very possible.
It's hard to deny that demographic is changing, not only younger voters, but also the changing % of minority black, brown, AAPI, and other minorities.

The question is whether change can come about in a temperature controlled, evolutionary way, or does it have to be an existential showdown?
MLK cautioned his fellow civil rights leaders that the movement needed to take the form of a marathon, and to resist the urge to sprint, for this very reason.
Are we back to philosophy pmward?

Kbg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:20 am Interesting. Thanks for the post.

glennds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:43 pm
Obama won 2008 mainly because David Axelrod ran a superb tactical campaign.

Facing defeat after a string of court losses, Trump made a surprise call-in appearance at a Republican state legislature hearing in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, where he stated bluntly that “we have to turn the election over.”

“This election has to be turned around,” Trump asserted elsewhere in the speakerphone speech. “We won Pennsylvania by a lot, and we won all of these swing states by a lot.”

doodle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 pm I don't know, between Trump and Biden I think Biden might actually have more marbles. T-bag is completely delusional.

Simonjester wrote:

glennds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:38 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 pm I don't know, between Trump and Biden I think Biden might actually have more marbles. T-bag is completely delusional.

T-bag and marbles in the same line doodle?

No TDS here... lol

Simonjester wrote:
million dollar idea..

doodle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:01 pm

Simonjester wrote:

glennds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:38 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:44 pm
I don't know, between Trump and Biden I think Biden might actually have more marbles. T-bag is completely delusional.

T-bag and marbles in the same line doodle?

No TDS here... lol

Yeah, it's metastasized to every corner of my being. I'm stage 4 terminal for sure. I'm thinking of starting an entire anti-trump clothing line....what you think?