Re: Why Trump will be inaugurated in January
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 am
Permanent Portfolio Forum
https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/
https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11529
Simonjester wrote:
Our system of government demands a constant distrust of government. if you don't believe they are ALL crooks (and capable willing and actively engaging in fraud on the people), it is likely your grasp of basic logic and reality that needs a assessment..
wow - I hadn't thought of it like that -vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
I had not thought of it like that but you're right. Fraud is a defined legal term. In order to allege it in in a court of law you must provide some level of merit to the allegation. It can't just be "aspirational" or an alternative fact. Rule 11 of Civil Rules of Procedure comes to mind.pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:27 am Proof or GTFO. Seriously. Court cases have gotten nowhere for lack of evidence. Neither Rudy nor any of Trumps lawyers have used the word "fraud" once in court. The only time they use the word "fraud" is outside of a legal setting, like social media, press conferences, etc where they cannot be prosecuted for perjury... Until there is real actual proof submitted to the courts, these claims can all be assumed to be baseless.
Flip side, why would the democrats "fraud" Trump out, but not "fraud" themselves into the house and senate. And why are the House and Senate races also not facing the same "fraud" accusations... even though they were on the very same ballots.GT wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:12 pmwow - I hadn't thought of it like that -vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
How did "Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures" not translate to Republican votes for Trump?
Republicans voted for Biden or left the President section blank as a nonvote for Trump?
I do want proof of the fraud - where is the smoking gun - or the IT guy with the data files to show the system was tampered with...
Yes. This is the thing that most people don't think of. If there were "real proof" submitted and accepted as testimony in a court of law I would be saying something completely different. But not only have they not provided any proof, they also have not filed ANY fraud suits in court. They all have been suits about small procedural violations like "these 50 votes should be disqualified because they were accepted 10 minutes after the cutoff time", none of which are big enough to actually change anything, and most have been rejected by the courts. There is nothing about "fraud" in the courts.glennds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:54 pmI had not thought of it like that but you're right. Fraud is a defined legal term. In order to allege it in in a court of law you must provide some level of merit to the allegation. It can't just be "aspirational" or an alternative fact. Rule 11 of Civil Rules of Procedure comes to mind.pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:27 am Proof or GTFO. Seriously. Court cases have gotten nowhere for lack of evidence. Neither Rudy nor any of Trumps lawyers have used the word "fraud" once in court. The only time they use the word "fraud" is outside of a legal setting, like social media, press conferences, etc where they cannot be prosecuted for perjury... Until there is real actual proof submitted to the courts, these claims can all be assumed to be baseless.
But you can say whatever you want to the public and the media because there are no rules.
And into the mix the inexplicable phenomenon where most of Trump's base will devoutly believe anything he says in the total absence of evidence, and the complete suspension of critical thinking.
Maybe the argument is not that the whole ballot is fraudulent. Just the one race where the voter chose Biden over Trump. The rest of the ballot is fine.pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:59 pmFlip side, why would the democrats "fraud" Trump out, but not "fraud" themselves into the house and senate. And why are the House and Senate races also not facing the same "fraud" accusations... even though they were on the very same ballots.GT wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:12 pmwow - I hadn't thought of it like that -vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
How did "Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures" not translate to Republican votes for Trump?
Republicans voted for Biden or left the President section blank as a nonvote for Trump?
I do want proof of the fraud - where is the smoking gun - or the IT guy with the data files to show the system was tampered with...
Common sense would say a lot of people wanted the polarizing Trump out of office, but wanted congress split to block some of Biden's policies.
Heheheglennds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:17 pmMaybe the argument is not that the whole ballot is fraudulent. Just the one race where the voter chose Biden over Trump. The rest of the ballot is fine.pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:59 pmFlip side, why would the democrats "fraud" Trump out, but not "fraud" themselves into the house and senate. And why are the House and Senate races also not facing the same "fraud" accusations... even though they were on the very same ballots.GT wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:12 pmwow - I hadn't thought of it like that -vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
How did "Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures" not translate to Republican votes for Trump?
Republicans voted for Biden or left the President section blank as a nonvote for Trump?
I do want proof of the fraud - where is the smoking gun - or the IT guy with the data files to show the system was tampered with...
Common sense would say a lot of people wanted the polarizing Trump out of office, but wanted congress split to block some of Biden's policies.
In other words what we're dealing with here is partially fraudulent ballots. To fix it what we need to do is surgically cut out the fraud like cancer, and leave the rest intact although it's possible some of the downballot Democrat votes might have been a bit of fraud too.
Or alternatively, maybe the Democrats are so good, what they did was fraud out Trump, but sacrifice the Senate and a bunch of House seats as a means of covering their tracks. That's Ocean's Eleven level fraud.
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:02 pm It is time to state something very plainly. Donald Trump is a liar. By which I mean he is a congenital liar. Some with more qualifications might call him a pathological liar. If Harry Truman were still alive, he'd just label Trump as a lying son of a bitch. I'm comfortable with any of those characterizations.
But however you choose to frame it, any claim of fact that might emanate from Donald Trump's mouth or Twitter feed should be treated as a presumptive lie until verified by an independent reliable source. That includes the correct time of day and the weather. Speaking of which, he has actually lied about the weather. He lies with an ease and frequency that most people would associate with breathing.
Never, in the 54 years of my life, did I expect to have to write such things about a sitting President of the United States. God save us.
glennds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:38 pmAd Orientem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:02 pm It is time to state something very plainly. Donald Trump is a liar. By which I mean he is a congenital liar. Some with more qualifications might call him a pathological liar. If Harry Truman were still alive, he'd just label Trump as a lying son of a bitch. I'm comfortable with any of those characterizations.
But however you choose to frame it, any claim of fact that might emanate from Donald Trump's mouth or Twitter feed should be treated as a presumptive lie until verified by an independent reliable source. That includes the correct time of day and the weather. Speaking of which, he has actually lied about the weather. He lies with an ease and frequency that most people would associate with breathing.
Never, in the 54 years of my life, did I expect to have to write such things about a sitting President of the United States. God save us.
Ad Orientem,
Let's say your conclusions are 100% correct.
Then how does one reconcile that a little less than half the voters in the country do not see it. And some percentage of those, maybe half, go so far as to see him as quasi-messianic, hanging on his every word, easily recruited into his villianization of anyone who threatens him (media,former Presidents, Democrats and some Republicans, derided as RINOs)?
Is there a Jedi mind trick that works on some but not others?
Simonjester wrote:
Our system of government demands a constant distrust of government. if you don't believe they are ALL crooks (and capable willing and actively engaging in fraud on the people), it is likely your grasp of basic logic and reality that needs a assessment..vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am
Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
Unfortunately, common sense and a Trump voter oftentimes do not belong in the same sentence.pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:59 pmFlip side, why would the democrats "fraud" Trump out, but not "fraud" themselves into the house and senate. And why are the House and Senate races also not facing the same "fraud" accusations... even though they were on the very same ballots.GT wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:12 pmwow - I hadn't thought of it like that -vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
How did "Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures" not translate to Republican votes for Trump?
Republicans voted for Biden or left the President section blank as a nonvote for Trump?
I do want proof of the fraud - where is the smoking gun - or the IT guy with the data files to show the system was tampered with...
Common sense would say a lot of people wanted the polarizing Trump out of office, but wanted congress split to block some of Biden's policies.
glennds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:17 pm
pmward wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:59 pm
GT wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:12 pm
vnatale wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:51 am
Totally stupid to believe to in any election fraud.
It requires one to believe that ALL the election fraud was dedicated towards Trump losing. Yet those same fraudsters did NOTHING at all to stop Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures.
If you really believe that Trump lost this election due to election fraud then you need to take a deep look in the mirror and do a self-assessment of your grasp of basic logic and reality!
Vinny
wow - I hadn't thought of it like that -
How did "Republicans winning positions in the House, the Senate, or all the state legislatures" not translate to Republican votes for Trump?
Republicans voted for Biden or left the President section blank as a nonvote for Trump?
I do want proof of the fraud - where is the smoking gun - or the IT guy with the data files to show the system was tampered with...
Flip side, why would the democrats "fraud" Trump out, but not "fraud" themselves into the house and senate. And why are the House and Senate races also not facing the same "fraud" accusations... even though they were on the very same ballots.
Common sense would say a lot of people wanted the polarizing Trump out of office, but wanted congress split to block some of Biden's policies.
Maybe the argument is not that the whole ballot is fraudulent. Just the one race where the voter chose Biden over Trump. The rest of the ballot is fine.
In other words what we're dealing with here is partially fraudulent ballots. To fix it what we need to do is surgically cut out the fraud like cancer, and leave the rest intact although it's possible some of the downballot Democrat votes might have been a bit of fraud too.
Or alternatively, maybe the Democrats are so good, what they did was fraud out Trump, but sacrifice the Senate and a bunch of House seats as a means of covering their tracks. That's Ocean's Eleven level fraud.
Simonjester wrote:
Have i got a bridge to sell you...
for the record republican blindly pro trump = idiot
left blindly anti Trump = idiot
left blindly pro Biden = idiot
republican blindly anti Biden = stopped clock (idiot but correct)
permanent-skeptic = realist..
Thank you for so far more eloquently than I have been attempting to so.Ad Orientem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:02 pm It is time to state something very plainly. Donald Trump is a liar. By which I mean he is a congenital liar. Some with more qualifications might call him a pathological liar. If Harry Truman were still alive, he'd just label Trump as a lying son of a bitch. I'm comfortable with any of those characterizations.
But however you choose to frame it, any claim of fact that might emanate from Donald Trump's mouth or Twitter feed should be treated as a presumptive lie until verified by an independent reliable source. That includes the correct time of day and the weather. Speaking of which, he has actually lied about the weather. He lies with an ease and frequency that most people would associate with breathing.
Never, in the 54 years of my life, did I expect to have to write such things about a sitting President of the United States. God save us.
A ton of the "ends justify the means" rationalizations. Plus, the same as the responses I have received here. He is no worse than any other politicians.glennds wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:38 pmAd Orientem wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:02 pm It is time to state something very plainly. Donald Trump is a liar. By which I mean he is a congenital liar. Some with more qualifications might call him a pathological liar. If Harry Truman were still alive, he'd just label Trump as a lying son of a bitch. I'm comfortable with any of those characterizations.
But however you choose to frame it, any claim of fact that might emanate from Donald Trump's mouth or Twitter feed should be treated as a presumptive lie until verified by an independent reliable source. That includes the correct time of day and the weather. Speaking of which, he has actually lied about the weather. He lies with an ease and frequency that most people would associate with breathing.
Never, in the 54 years of my life, did I expect to have to write such things about a sitting President of the United States. God save us.
Ad Orientem,
Let's say your conclusions are 100% correct.
Then how does one reconcile that a little less than half the voters in the country do not see it. And some percentage of those, maybe half, go so far as to see him as quasi-messianic, hanging on his every word, easily recruited into his villianization of anyone who threatens him (media,former Presidents, Democrats and some Republicans, derided as RINOs)?
Is there a Jedi mind trick that works on some but not others?
I think he has me down as one of his TDS blockages. That said, calling out the emperor for having no clothes isn't to convince the emperor. It's to slap the agreeability off the faces of the public.