Trump self pardon

User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:46 am

Lonestar wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:41 pm
doodle wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:04 am
Lonestar wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:58 am
I'd probably become a "Wackadoodle" if I had some bimbo running her mouth like that in my ear! Just watching the video reminded me of fingernails scratching on a chalkboard. How would you react to being in an airport and having someone, uninvited, following you around?
Considering that he is an elected official specifically called to Washington to meet with the president about overthrowing the peoples vote by conducting a legislative branch coup, I'd have the spine to answer some questions instead of just singing bible hymns. What is that about? You hate spineless politicians? Then why do you keep defending them. She didn't ask any questions that were outside the pale. The only bimbo I see is him
I believe you read something into my post that was not there. I did not intend to mention the politician or judge his actions. My intent was to point out that most folks, walking through an airport and minding their own business, have the right to enjoy privacy.

Who wants a continuum of questions by an uninvited guest at an inappropriate time?

Now, on a completely different subject, I'm not sure any elected official has the obligation to answer questions at any random time. Press conferences or interviews are for that. Also, is an elected official obligated to state who they are scheduled to meet with and what the subject will be? Your assumption that this individual's mission is to "meet with the president about overthrowing the peoples vote" is just that, an assumption.
My guess is that that the US taxpayer or at least the Michigan taxpayer was paying for his journey to the Whitehouse where they were going to discuss overturning the will of michigan voters. As far as I'm concerned he's on the clock and considering he is involved in a plot to undermine democracy I think answering a few questions isn't too much to ask of an elected official.
ahhrunforthehills
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:49 am

doodle wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:46 am
Lonestar wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:41 pm
doodle wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:04 am
Lonestar wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:58 am
I'd probably become a "Wackadoodle" if I had some bimbo running her mouth like that in my ear! Just watching the video reminded me of fingernails scratching on a chalkboard. How would you react to being in an airport and having someone, uninvited, following you around?
Considering that he is an elected official specifically called to Washington to meet with the president about overthrowing the peoples vote by conducting a legislative branch coup, I'd have the spine to answer some questions instead of just singing bible hymns. What is that about? You hate spineless politicians? Then why do you keep defending them. She didn't ask any questions that were outside the pale. The only bimbo I see is him
I believe you read something into my post that was not there. I did not intend to mention the politician or judge his actions. My intent was to point out that most folks, walking through an airport and minding their own business, have the right to enjoy privacy.

Who wants a continuum of questions by an uninvited guest at an inappropriate time?

Now, on a completely different subject, I'm not sure any elected official has the obligation to answer questions at any random time. Press conferences or interviews are for that. Also, is an elected official obligated to state who they are scheduled to meet with and what the subject will be? Your assumption that this individual's mission is to "meet with the president about overthrowing the peoples vote" is just that, an assumption.
My guess is that that the US taxpayer or at least the Michigan taxpayer was paying for his journey to the Whitehouse where they were going to discuss overturning the will of michigan voters. As far as I'm concerned he's on the clock and considering he is involved in a plot to undermine democracy I think answering a few questions isn't too much to ask of an elected official.

Ah Michigan... where 4 districts were apparently able to process 4 times more votes than their machines were physically capable of. Nothing to see there.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... .7.1_2.pdf
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am

Do you dig into any of the stuff you post? Mr. Ramslands affidavit is so professionally researched that the districts included in his case mix up Michigan with Minessota. (Screen shots of listed districts not included)

This is why these cases keep getting tossed out left and right.



----

"
The Ramsland affidavit is part of the Trump team’s case relating to Dominion. In paragraph 9, the affidavit states:

Based on the significant anomalies and red flags that we have observed, we believe there is a significant probability that election results have been manipulated within the Dominion/Premier system in Michigan.

What are those anomalies and red flags? Paragraph 11 explains:

Another statistical red flag is evident is evident in the number of votes cast compared to the number of voters in some precincts. A preliminary analysis using data obtained from the Michigan Secretary of State pinpoints a statistical anomaly so far outside of every statistical norm as to be virtually impossible. … There were at least 19 precincts where the Presidential Votes Cast compared to the Estimated Voters based on Reported Statistics exceeded 100%.

This is a screen shot of the list of 19 precincts:


Paragraph 17, continuing in the same vein, says:

Wayne County uses Dominion equipment, 46 out of 47 precincts/townships display a highly unlikely 96%+ as the number of votes cast, using the Secretary of State’s number of voters in the precinct/township; and 25% of those 47 precincts/townships show 100% turnout.

This list of 25 precincts or townships (a number that does not obviously fit with the preceding language) follows:


Here’s the problem: the townships and precincts listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 of the affidavit are not in Michigan. They are in Minnesota. Monticello, Albertville, Lake Lillian, Houston, Brownsville, Runeberg, Wolf Lake, Height of Land, Detroit Lakes, Frazee, Kandiyohi–these are all towns in Minnesota. I haven’t checked them all, but I checked a lot of them, and all locations listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 that I looked up are in Minnesota, with no corresponding township in Michigan. This would have been obvious to someone from this state, but Mr. Ramsland is a Texan and the lawyers are probably not natives of either Minnesota or Michigan.

Evidently a researcher, either Mr. Ramsland or someone working for him, was working with a database and confused “MI” for Minnesota with “MI” for Michigan. (The postal code for Minnesota is MN, while Michigan is MI, so one can see how this might happen.) So the affidavit, which addresses “anomalies and red flags” in Michigan, is based largely, and mistakenly, on data from Minnesota
.

This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn. Trump’s lawyers are fighting an uphill battle, to put it mildly, and confusing Michigan with Minnesota will at best make the hill steeper. Credibility once lost is hard to regain. Possibly Trump’s lawyers have already discovered this appalling error, and have undertaken to correct it. But the Ramsland Affidavit was filed in Georgia just yesterday.

A postscript: has Mr. Ramsland inadvertently stumbled across evidence of voter fraud in Minnesota? I seriously doubt it. The venues in question are all in red Greater Minnesota, not in the blue urban areas where voter fraud is common.

Trump’s lawyers have not yet had their day in court, but they will have to do a great deal better than this if they hope to succeed.
ahhrunforthehills
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:40 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:25 am
Do you dig into any of the stuff you post? Mr. Ramslands affidavit is so professionally researched that the districts included in his case mix up Michigan with Minessota. (Screen shots of listed districts not included)

This is why these cases keep getting tossed out left and right.



----

"
The Ramsland affidavit is part of the Trump team’s case relating to Dominion. In paragraph 9, the affidavit states:

Based on the significant anomalies and red flags that we have observed, we believe there is a significant probability that election results have been manipulated within the Dominion/Premier system in Michigan.

What are those anomalies and red flags? Paragraph 11 explains:

Another statistical red flag is evident is evident in the number of votes cast compared to the number of voters in some precincts. A preliminary analysis using data obtained from the Michigan Secretary of State pinpoints a statistical anomaly so far outside of every statistical norm as to be virtually impossible. … There were at least 19 precincts where the Presidential Votes Cast compared to the Estimated Voters based on Reported Statistics exceeded 100%.

This is a screen shot of the list of 19 precincts:


Paragraph 17, continuing in the same vein, says:

Wayne County uses Dominion equipment, 46 out of 47 precincts/townships display a highly unlikely 96%+ as the number of votes cast, using the Secretary of State’s number of voters in the precinct/township; and 25% of those 47 precincts/townships show 100% turnout.

This list of 25 precincts or townships (a number that does not obviously fit with the preceding language) follows:


Here’s the problem: the townships and precincts listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 of the affidavit are not in Michigan. They are in Minnesota. Monticello, Albertville, Lake Lillian, Houston, Brownsville, Runeberg, Wolf Lake, Height of Land, Detroit Lakes, Frazee, Kandiyohi–these are all towns in Minnesota. I haven’t checked them all, but I checked a lot of them, and all locations listed in paragraphs 11 and 17 that I looked up are in Minnesota, with no corresponding township in Michigan. This would have been obvious to someone from this state, but Mr. Ramsland is a Texan and the lawyers are probably not natives of either Minnesota or Michigan.

Evidently a researcher, either Mr. Ramsland or someone working for him, was working with a database and confused “MI” for Minnesota with “MI” for Michigan. (The postal code for Minnesota is MN, while Michigan is MI, so one can see how this might happen.) So the affidavit, which addresses “anomalies and red flags” in Michigan, is based largely, and mistakenly, on data from Minnesota
.

This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn. Trump’s lawyers are fighting an uphill battle, to put it mildly, and confusing Michigan with Minnesota will at best make the hill steeper. Credibility once lost is hard to regain. Possibly Trump’s lawyers have already discovered this appalling error, and have undertaken to correct it. But the Ramsland Affidavit was filed in Georgia just yesterday.

A postscript: has Mr. Ramsland inadvertently stumbled across evidence of voter fraud in Minnesota? I seriously doubt it. The venues in question are all in red Greater Minnesota, not in the blue urban areas where voter fraud is common.

Trump’s lawyers have not yet had their day in court, but they will have to do a great deal better than this if they hope to succeed.
Lol. Do you dig into any of the stuff you post?!?!

I didn't direct you to #11 on page 2-3. I directed you to #13 on pages 4-5. Kent, Macomb, Oakland, and Wayne are all counties in Michigan.

The quote you provided was laughable. "This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn". lol. Talk about flare for the dramatic.

The affidavit has multiple accusations. You only need ONE accusation to meet the low threshold of plausibility in a courtroom to advance the case towards the discovery phase. That is how the court system in our country really works.... that is why lawsuits ALWAYS throw the spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

If you are able to defeat 99% of 100 claims I make against you... I still won.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:50 am

When the affidavit can't even keep Minnesota and Michigan straight what gives you any confidence that anything else in there is correct? You can keep throwing the spaghetti...but at some point the reasonable voices like Christie come out and start calling the whole thing a national embarrassment. At that point you can go back into your bunker and prepare for the coming illegitimate Biden apocalypse or accept the reality (as Trump seems to be coming around to) that your man lost and get on with life. Either way, in 60 days based on all the evidence we will have a new President. My guess is that these lawsuits will peter out by the end of the month.
ahhrunforthehills
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:34 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:50 am
When the affidavit can't even keep Minnesota and Michigan straight what gives you any confidence that anything else in there is correct? You can keep throwing the spaghetti...but at some point the reasonable voices like Christie come out and start calling the whole thing a national embarrassment. At that point you can go back into your bunker and prepare for the coming illegitimate Biden apocalypse or accept the reality (as Trump seems to be coming around to) that your man lost and get on with life. Either way, in 60 days based on all the evidence we will have a new President. My guess is that these lawsuits will peter out by the end of the month.
Why does MY CONFIDENCE matter?

You seem to be talking about how YOU think the US Court System should work... I am talking about how the system ACTUALLY works.

Lawsuits are not a popularity contest in the beginning. "Overall opinions" matter zero for the initial pleadings. I am straight-up telling you how the courts handle lawsuits. Again, the bar of evidence is absurdly low to bring a suit and have it proceed to discovery.

You assume that Trump is "my guy". But again, you are simply allowing your emotions to drive your own narrative. Perhaps Hillary should have won in 2016... perhaps Bernie should have been the nominee instead of her. Your emotions are blinding you from the bigger picture.

Maybe the evidence will bear fruit or maybe it won't. Investigating our election system is the most pro-democracy thing that can be done. I find it sad that people that claim to be "pro-democracy" claim otherwise. If they uncover nothing... that is a great thing (since we can have confidence in it). If they uncover something... that is a great thing (since it can be fixed).
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:34 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:50 am
When the affidavit can't even keep Minnesota and Michigan straight what gives you any confidence that anything else in there is correct? You can keep throwing the spaghetti...but at some point the reasonable voices like Christie come out and start calling the whole thing a national embarrassment. At that point you can go back into your bunker and prepare for the coming illegitimate Biden apocalypse or accept the reality (as Trump seems to be coming around to) that your man lost and get on with life. Either way, in 60 days based on all the evidence we will have a new President. My guess is that these lawsuits will peter out by the end of the month.
Why does MY CONFIDENCE matter?

You seem to be talking about how YOU think the US Court System should work... I am talking about how the system ACTUALLY works.

Lawsuits are not a popularity contest in the beginning. "Overall opinions" matter zero for the initial pleadings. I am straight-up telling you how the courts handle lawsuits. Again, the bar of evidence is absurdly low to bring a suit and have it proceed to discovery.

You assume that Trump is "my guy". But again, you are simply allowing your emotions to drive your own narrative. Perhaps Hillary should have won in 2016... perhaps Bernie should have been the nominee instead of her. Your emotions are blinding you from the bigger picture.

Maybe the evidence will bear fruit or maybe it won't. Investigating our election system is the most pro-democracy thing that can be done. I find it sad that people that claim to be "pro-democracy" claim otherwise. If they uncover nothing... that is a great thing (since we can have confidence in it). If they uncover something... that is a great thing (since it can be fixed).
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
User avatar
Mark Leavy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:20 pm
Location: US Citizen, Permanent Traveler

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
You forgot to add your follow up sentence. And if they find solid evidence, then I will support the current administration's second term.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
You forgot to add your follow up sentence. And if they find solid evidence, then I will support the current administration's second term.
Absolutely. I will recognize...support probably wrong terminology. When will you recognize?
User avatar
Mark Leavy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:20 pm
Location: US Citizen, Permanent Traveler

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:24 pm

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
You forgot to add your follow up sentence. And if they find solid evidence, then I will support the current administration's second term.
Absolutely. I will recognize...support probably wrong terminology. When will you recognize?
I don't vote. Never do. I don't have a dog in this fight. I disagree with 50% of whatever policies are active at any time and I have a higher ROI in working around the policies I don't like (via lifestyle choices) than any return I would get at worrying about who is in office.
User avatar
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3875
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:38 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:24 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
You forgot to add your follow up sentence. And if they find solid evidence, then I will support the current administration's second term.
Absolutely. I will recognize...support probably wrong terminology. When will you recognize?
I don't vote. Never do. I don't have a dog in this fight. I disagree with 50% of whatever policies are active at any time and I have a higher ROI in working around the policies I don't like (via lifestyle choices) than any return I would get at worrying about who is in office.
I felt that way up until Trump. This is first election I voted in. Just voted for president and state senator that's it.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4055
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: Trump self pardon

Post by pugchief » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:08 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:24 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:12 pm
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:47 am
Now that Biden transition has been allowed to go forward I have less opposition to all of this.

In the end if they find nothing of substance and say so, then I will be ok with that. Sure, let them dig. But the fact that all of their lawsuits to date have been thrown out reeks like a desperate grasping attempt to throw doubt on a process. My hunch is they will soil our democracy to protect Donald's fragile ego. The damage from that will be lasting.
You forgot to add your follow up sentence. And if they find solid evidence, then I will support the current administration's second term.
Absolutely. I will recognize...support probably wrong terminology. When will you recognize?
I don't vote. Never do. I don't have a dog in this fight. I disagree with 50% of whatever policies are active at any time and I have a higher ROI in working around the policies I don't like (via lifestyle choices) than any return I would get at worrying about who is in office.
That is the most sane statement made on this forum in ages.
Post Reply