Trump self pardon

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doodle
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Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:07 pm

Anyone want to make any predictions about whether Trump pardons himself before end of term...or steps down and has Pence pardon him?...of course that doesn't get him off the hook for state charges....which he might be getting hit with here shortly.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by tomfoolery » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:46 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:07 pm
Anyone want to make any predictions about whether Trump pardons himself before end of term...or steps down and has Pence pardon him?...of course that doesn't get him off the hook for state charges....which he might be getting hit with here shortly.
What did he do that would require a pardon?
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Mark Leavy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:01 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:07 pm
Anyone want to make any predictions about whether Trump pardons himself before end of term...or steps down and has Pence pardon him?...of course that doesn't get him off the hook for state charges....which he might be getting hit with here shortly.
Take a deep breath doodle.
I know it's easy to get caught up in the furor of the day.

But this isn't going to happen. There are no monsters under your bed.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 am

tomfoolery wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:46 am
doodle wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:07 pm
Anyone want to make any predictions about whether Trump pardons himself before end of term...or steps down and has Pence pardon him?...of course that doesn't get him off the hook for state charges....which he might be getting hit with here shortly.
What did he do that would require a pardon?
As far as I've read there are more than a dozen investigations now underway...both federal and state.
A lot of this hinges on what happens at department of justice and who the new Attorney General is and what the countrys appetite is to make sure we see a more even handed application of justice between classes. Obviously pardoning himself would only protect him from federal charges and he is likely to face state charges in New York I think. He has been closely guarding his tax returns because he knows, as I think every reasonable person who is a billionaire and pays 750 dollars in taxes knows,...there is funny business going on. So the biggest threat I think he faces off the bat is tax fraud...writing off hush money as business expenses for example, weird schemes to funnel money to children tax free...I'm not a tax attorney but Im pretty sure there are many who are ready to dig their hooks into him. Then, the Mueller investigation was not tasked with criminally investigating the president. Sitting presidents can't be indicted for federal crimes....however anyone who watched Muellers testimony before the house would see that Mueller did not exonerate the president...I'm sure there is plenty there to run with..bribery, obstruction of justice.

All I'm saying is Trump is a lying cheating conman of epic proportions. It's never happened to a US president but italy's Berlusconi or brazils Lula were both prosecuted and jailed after leaving office. I would not be surprised if after this election fiasco that the Trump drama train continues.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:23 am

I give 50/50 chance to prosecuting him for various things vs. just letting him ride off into the sunset of right wing talk radio/internet/TV without prosecution.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by pmward » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:35 am

Yeah, there probably is legitimate cases against him. But, I'm not sure the status quo of rich powerful men having a get out of jail free card is going to end. I think at the end of the day, whether he pardons himself or not, nothing will really come from it. Maybe he has to pay some back taxes or something like that. I don't think he will see jail time or anything like that, and since he is such a bullshit artist I'm sure he will come through whatever happens (even jail) without the influence and power over his "core" changing. He will have some whacky conspiracy theory that they all bite into hook, line, and sinker.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Maddy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 am

Trump must be winning.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:35 am

Maddy wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 am
Trump must be winning.
Perhaps in our country where currently up is down and backwards is forwards.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Lonestar » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:25 am

How do you "pardon" someone who has not been formally accused or convicted of an actual crime?

Throughout Trump's administration the MSM as continuously based their rhetoric on "what if" scenarios. Granted, Trump has done his best to give them ammunition, but how do folks get so fired up over "what if" we find Trump did this or that?
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by doodle » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:54 am

Lonestar wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:25 am
How do you "pardon" someone who has not been formally accused or convicted of an actual crime?

Throughout Trump's administration the MSM as continuously based their rhetoric on "what if" scenarios. Granted, Trump has done his best to give them ammunition, but how do folks get so fired up over "what if" we find Trump did this or that?
I don't know...I wonder if there is a blanket pardon he can give himself for all potential future federal indictments. I'm thinking he's going to be spending a lot more time in court once the presidential force field is taken away.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by glennds » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:33 pm

Lonestar wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:25 am
How do you "pardon" someone who has not been formally accused or convicted of an actual crime?

Throughout Trump's administration the MSM as continuously based their rhetoric on "what if" scenarios. Granted, Trump has done his best to give them ammunition, but how do folks get so fired up over "what if" we find Trump did this or that?
It is my understanding that the presidential pardon can apply to any federal crimes committed up to the date of the pardon, even if they are not charged or known. The pardon can be blanket in nature. The pardon issued by Ford to Nixon was a blanket pardon, bounded only by start and end dates:
......Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.
However, a presidential pardon cannot apply to crimes committed after the date of the pardon.

Whether a self pardon is constitutional is a murkier area. Some say it is, some say it is not. Thus far no president has attempted to pardon himself, so the issue has not been tested. But Trump, being the innovator he is may be the first to try it. Others believe he may turn over power to Pence and have him do it. Either way if it is to happen, we'll find out soon enough.

Of course the presidential pardon does not apply to state crimes, or Federal civil charges.
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Re: Trump self pardon

Post by Ad Orientem » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:24 pm

It's coming. There will be a wave of pardons... for his kids, his businesses, his lawyers and accountants, his allies and lastly... for himself. As noted these will not get him out of dutch with the state of New York. But it will eliminate the very real danger of interstate wire, bank, insurance fraud and Federal income tax evasion. The only downsides are that under the law, issuance and acceptance of a pardon is considered a legal admission to having committed one or more crimes. Also a person once pardoned and having the threat of criminal prosecution lifted may forfeit their 5th amendment right to refuse to testify under oath as they have de-facto immunity. Of course the lingering threat of state level criminal indictments could complicate that.
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