Florida 2000

pp4me
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pp4me » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am

pmward wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:36 am
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:16 am
pmward wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:09 pm
I really fail to see how this is any less secure than in person voting.
In Florida you present your ID which they look up to see if you are registered to vote. Then you go into a booth with your ballot to make your selections. So you know that the person voting is indeed, the registered voter. Checking some serial number on a mailed-in ballot doesn't tell you that the person the ballot was actually sent to is the one who filled it out. Nor does it tell you if the person is dead or has moved.
They would not send ballots to someone who is dead or moved. They use signature verification to ensure it was the person that voted. Also, in person, there is a such thing as a fake id. Who says showing an ID is secure? In person is not more secure, it's just more familiar. Familiarity generally speaking is the opposite of security. Where there is familiarity there is trust, where there is trust there is guard let down, where there is guard let down there is security vulnerability. Security is part of my job, so I have to think about these kinds of things every day.
I've heard lots of stories about ballots being mailed to people who were dead or moved, even out of state, so why do you say that doesn't happen?

I guess they should stop asking for an ID when we get on a plane according to your reasoning then. Anybody can get a fake ID so what is the point?

And if I'm going to continue voting in person I should be able to bring someone with me to fill out the ballot for me, should I not? That sounds only fair because the mail-in voters can obviously do that.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:28 am

pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
I've heard lots of stories about ballots being mailed to people who were dead or moved, even out of state, so why do you say that doesn't happen?
Where is the proof that these ballots, in large quantities, were sent, verified, and counted? Also, where is the proof that if these exist, they were 100% Biden votes? Let us not forget that Nixon was a Republican. Republicans are not holier than thou.
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
I guess they should stop asking for an ID when we get on a plane according to your reasoning then. Anybody can get a fake ID so what is the point?
Sending a serialized ballot to the address of record is a valid form of identification. There is a reason why mailing something to someones address can be used as a form of verification... the same way texting a code to a registered phone, or sending a code via email to a registered email can be a proof of identity to log into your bank account. These forms of authorization are even used for access to confidential U.S. secret security clearance documents. And yes, people do get on planes with fake ID's. I'm not saying ID is not a valid form of identity verification, but it's not the only one, and it's not fool proof. For example, I'm sure I'm not the only one here that had a fake ID to buy booze as a teenager... Also, FWIW on my mail in ballot I had to write down my DL#. So for someone else to vote for a dead or moved person they would have to have the same ID info used in person.
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
And if I'm going to continue voting in person I should be able to bring someone with me to fill out the ballot for me, should I not? That sounds only fair because the mail-in voters can obviously do that.
I think this is just silly. If someone is blind, should they not be able to vote because it would require them to rely on someone else to fill out the ovals for them?
Last edited by pmward on Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pp4me » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:40 am

pmward wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:28 am
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
I've heard lots of stories about ballots being mailed to people who were dead or moved, even out of state, so why do you say that doesn't happen?
Where is the proof that these ballots, in large quantities, were sent, verified, and counted? Also, where is the proof that if these exist, they were 100% Biden votes? Let us not forget that Nixon was a Republican. Republicans are not holier than thou.
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
I guess they should stop asking for an ID when we get on a plane according to your reasoning then. Anybody can get a fake ID so what is the point?
Sending a serialized ballot to the address of record is a valid form of identification. There is a reason why mailing something to someones address can be used as a form of verification... the same way texting a code to a registered phone, or sending a code via email to a registered email can be a proof of identity to log into your bank account. These forms of authorization are even used for access to confidential U.S. secret security clearance documents. And yes, people do get on planes with fake ID's. I'm not saying ID is not a valid form of identity verification, but it's not the only one, and it's not fool proof. For example, I'm sure I'm not the only one here that had a fake ID to buy booze as a teenager...
pp4me wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:14 am
And if I'm going to continue voting in person I should be able to bring someone with me to fill out the ballot for me, should I not? That sounds only fair because the mail-in voters can obviously do that.
I think this is just silly. If someone is blind, should they not be able to vote because it would require them to rely on someone else to fill out the ovals for them?
I give up. You win.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:01 am

I can't speak for every state, only for AZ. But I assume most states had similar security precautions, especially since Trump projected months ago that he was going to challenge mail in voting, so they knew in advance that their security would be under the microscope. The steps taken here in AZ at least were secure. There is absolutely no way Trump or anybody else could successfully win any court case in AZ that questions the security measures put in place, and this was a state that sent mail in ballots to all registered voters. The odds of actual fraudulent ballots getting through the system and counted here are extremely low. The biggest risk would probably be legitimate ballots getting lost in the mail. But since every voter could trace their ballot and verify online when exactly it was verified and counted, if this were actually a problem we would be hearing about it by now. I find it hard to believe any Trump voter wouldn't have checked online that their vote was legitimately counted given the circumstances and accusations.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:51 pm

So to better get the point across, I decided to do a little thought experiment. What exactly would it take for me to crack the mail in voting and submit mass fraudulent votes that could alter the election here in AZ.

1) The official serialized ballot mailed to each person at their address of record. I could not spoof the ballot, because the serial number would not match what was in their private database, and they would throw it out. This means I have to have access to the persons physical mailbox and their officially issued ballot. I could not rip the postoffice off directly for 2 reasons. First the fact that if I submitted a ballot for someone, and they did not receive their ballot and they requested to be issued a second ballot, my ballots serial number would be voided out in the database and the vote would not be counted. Second, the person themself could see on the website that a ballot was submitted in their name that they did not submit, and they could call and contest it. And if this did happen to anyone that voted for Trump, you better believe it would be in the national news. So the only possibility is to physically gain access to the physical mailboxes of tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals that are all *registered voters* that are either dead AND registered to vote or someone who moved AND did not update their registration AND did not vote AND did not check their ballot status online.

2) I would need access to personal information for that person. In AZ this information needed is the full name, birthdate, house number, and the state issued ID number. Some of these things could be scraped off the internet, but getting all of this info at mass scale for these same tens to hundreds of thousands of people is extremely unlikely. If any of this info doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

3) I would need both access to a document with this persons signature and the ability, or access to someone with the ability, to forge signatures. This signature couldn't be scraped off the internet, this would require access to some physical document the person signed. Once again, at mass scale basically impossible. If signature doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

4) I would need to make sure this person did not vote or request another ballot, because that would void the one I had. I would also need to make sure that this person would not check their ballot status online, else they would see activity they didn't expect and could report it. Basically any living person is completely out of the question.

5) I need access to a mailbox that I can dump 10s or 100s of thousands of ballots off at that is not under camera surveillance and would not draw attention as I dumped a literal dumpster full of ballots off.

Let's really be honest here, when you combine all these things together, what are the odds of being able to do all these things at a mass scale that could alter the election? It's fantasy. It's not realistic. It's baseless. It's the moves of a desperate authoritarian that is trying to threaten our democracy as a strategy to usurp power. Anybody who bought into this fraud narrative was played like a fiddle.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:04 pm

pmward wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:51 pm
So to better get the point across, I decided to do a little thought experiment. What exactly would it take for me to crack the mail in voting and submit mass fraudulent votes that could alter the election here in AZ.

1) The official serialized ballot mailed to each person at their address of record. I could not spoof the ballot, because the serial number would not match what was in their private database, and they would throw it out. This means I have to have access to the persons physical mailbox and their officially issued ballot. I could not rip the postoffice off directly for 2 reasons. First the fact that if I submitted a ballot for someone, and they did not receive their ballot and they requested to be issued a second ballot, my ballots serial number would be voided out in the database and the vote would not be counted. Second, the person themself could see on the website that a ballot was submitted in their name that they did not submit, and they could call and contest it. And if this did happen to anyone that voted for Trump, you better believe it would be in the national news. So the only possibility is to physically gain access to the physical mailboxes of tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals that are all *registered voters* that are either dead AND registered to vote or someone who moved AND did not update their registration AND did not vote AND did not check their ballot status online.

2) I would need access to personal information for that person. In AZ this information needed is the full name, birthdate, house number, and the state issued ID number. Some of these things could be scraped off the internet, but getting all of this info at mass scale for these same tens to hundreds of thousands of people is extremely unlikely. If any of this info doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

3) I would need both access to a document with this persons signature and the ability, or access to someone with the ability, to forge signatures. This signature couldn't be scraped off the internet, this would require access to some physical document the person signed. Once again, at mass scale basically impossible. If signature doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

4) I would need to make sure this person did not vote or request another ballot, because that would void the one I had. I would also need to make sure that this person would not check their ballot status online, else they would see activity they didn't expect and could report it. Basically any living person is completely out of the question.

5) I need access to a mailbox that I can dump 10s or 100s of thousands of ballots off at that is not under camera surveillance and would not draw attention as I dumped a literal dumpster full of ballots off.

Let's really be honest here, when you combine all these things together, what are the odds of being able to do all these things at a mass scale that could alter the election? It's fantasy. It's not realistic. It's baseless. It's the moves of a desperate authoritarian that is trying to threaten our democracy as a strategy to usurp power. Anybody who bought into this fraud narrative was played like a fiddle.
Just to play devil’s advocate...

1.

Spoofing ballots is not necessary if you can hack the voting machines or the Election Management System.

2.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... vers%3famp

3.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/o ... ssion=true

4.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com ... essee/amp/

5.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/1 ... ter-330am/

Actually, all you would need is #1.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:49 am

Kbg wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:39 pm
No. You don’t understand. The GNON is a vast and highly secretive organization. Pay attention, the postal workers dumping ballots are never fired. Twitter is collecting every Republicans data and then sending it to the gnomes so that the voting records can be manipulated. They have extremely sophisticated algorithms to distinguish between voter types so that only Republican ballots are changed. Notice how Twitters symbol is blue as well? Look, it’s all there for anyone who will just open their eyes. How can you not see it?
Those damn gnomes!!!!
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:55 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:04 pm
pmward wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:51 pm
So to better get the point across, I decided to do a little thought experiment. What exactly would it take for me to crack the mail in voting and submit mass fraudulent votes that could alter the election here in AZ.

1) The official serialized ballot mailed to each person at their address of record. I could not spoof the ballot, because the serial number would not match what was in their private database, and they would throw it out. This means I have to have access to the persons physical mailbox and their officially issued ballot. I could not rip the postoffice off directly for 2 reasons. First the fact that if I submitted a ballot for someone, and they did not receive their ballot and they requested to be issued a second ballot, my ballots serial number would be voided out in the database and the vote would not be counted. Second, the person themself could see on the website that a ballot was submitted in their name that they did not submit, and they could call and contest it. And if this did happen to anyone that voted for Trump, you better believe it would be in the national news. So the only possibility is to physically gain access to the physical mailboxes of tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals that are all *registered voters* that are either dead AND registered to vote or someone who moved AND did not update their registration AND did not vote AND did not check their ballot status online.

2) I would need access to personal information for that person. In AZ this information needed is the full name, birthdate, house number, and the state issued ID number. Some of these things could be scraped off the internet, but getting all of this info at mass scale for these same tens to hundreds of thousands of people is extremely unlikely. If any of this info doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

3) I would need both access to a document with this persons signature and the ability, or access to someone with the ability, to forge signatures. This signature couldn't be scraped off the internet, this would require access to some physical document the person signed. Once again, at mass scale basically impossible. If signature doesn't match up, vote doesn't count.

4) I would need to make sure this person did not vote or request another ballot, because that would void the one I had. I would also need to make sure that this person would not check their ballot status online, else they would see activity they didn't expect and could report it. Basically any living person is completely out of the question.

5) I need access to a mailbox that I can dump 10s or 100s of thousands of ballots off at that is not under camera surveillance and would not draw attention as I dumped a literal dumpster full of ballots off.

Let's really be honest here, when you combine all these things together, what are the odds of being able to do all these things at a mass scale that could alter the election? It's fantasy. It's not realistic. It's baseless. It's the moves of a desperate authoritarian that is trying to threaten our democracy as a strategy to usurp power. Anybody who bought into this fraud narrative was played like a fiddle.
Just to play devil’s advocate...

1.

Spoofing ballots is not necessary if you can hack the voting machines or the Election Management System.

2.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... vers%3famp

3.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/o ... ssion=true

4.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com ... essee/amp/

5.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/1 ... ter-330am/

Actually, all you would need is #1.
1) Good luck

2) That is a problem... but TX was a clear Trump win, so moot.

3) There is no proof, it's just a claim that could be false. Signature could also be faked in person though too... so once again no difference in security from in person or mail in here.

4) Once again there is no proof, it's a claim that could be false. Also, there could be 2 people with the same name in this country...

5) looks like a very... spurious website to say the least. I'm not sure I would trust it without any proof. He claims he was an election observer, but weren't all election sites video taped? Where is the video to back his claims?
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm

1. It is not that far fetched. Jill Stein had enough proof of machines changing votes to review the source code and squash a gag order a couple weeks ago. It took her years of fighting, millions of dollars, and she even had the support of Hillary.

I recently saw something that said the machines were routinely sold on ebay, can be easily be opened up, have peripheral ports, and could be loaded with malicious code in less than 5 minutes.

2. You think that problem can only happen in Texas? Do you think all hacked databases know they were hacked? Regardless, pick a state. What do you need? Arizona? Okay... took 2 seconds:

https://time.com/4472169/russian-hacker ... istration/

3. How much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

Furthermore, how many times can you realistically really forge someone’s signature in-person without arising suspicion? What your risk of being caught?

Same question... this time using snail mail.

Obviously, infinitely more fraud is likely to occur with mail-in votes both in sheer quantity and in minimal chance of being caught.

4. Again, how much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

5. I find it very strange you keep saying “there is no proof”. I think what you mean to say YOU have no access to proof. 2 very different things.

The lawyers have access to evidence through subpoenas in the discovery stage (that often can’t be made public) ...we have access to what exactly? It sounds like you require preliminary evidence published by a major network to think there is a chance of widespread fraud (which would be strange since considering the media blackout if Hunter Biden).

Respectfully, to rule out the possibility of fraud because an ongoing investigation lacks public disclosure seems like blind bias. We don’t know what we don’t know. Widespread fraud would likely only be identified during discovery. Yet you seem to be claiming otherwise.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:21 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
1. It is not that far fetched. Jill Stein had enough proof of machines changing votes to review the source code and squash a gag order a couple weeks ago. It took her years of fighting, millions of dollars, and she even had the support of Hillary.

I recently saw something that said the machines were routinely sold on ebay, can be easily be opened up, have peripheral ports, and could be loaded with malicious code in less than 5 minutes.

2. You think that problem can only happen in Texas? Do you think all hacked databases know they were hacked? Regardless, pick a state. What do you need? Arizona? Okay... took 2 seconds:

https://time.com/4472169/russian-hacker ... istration/

3. How much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

Furthermore, how many times can you realistically really forge someone’s signature in-person without arising suspicion? What your risk of being caught?

Same question... this time using snail mail.

Obviously, infinitely more fraud is likely to occur with mail-in votes both in sheer quantity and in minimal chance of being caught.

4. Again, how much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

5. I find it very strange you keep saying “there is no proof”. I think what you mean to say YOU have no access to proof. 2 very different things.

The lawyers have access to evidence through subpoenas in the discovery stage (that often can’t be made public) ...we have access to what exactly? It sounds like you require preliminary evidence published by a major network to think there is a chance of widespread fraud (which would be strange since considering the media blackout if Hunter Biden).

Respectfully, to rule out the possibility of fraud because an ongoing investigation lacks public disclosure seems like blind bias. We don’t know what we don’t know. Widespread fraud would likely only be identified during discovery. Yet you seem to be claiming otherwise.
If there is fraud what makes you think it's attributable to Biden? Why not republican fraud? Perhaps Bidens margin should have been even larger. Also, these allegations of fraud are what the Donald does. Do you think there was fraud in Iowa in 2016? Trump sure thought so. He's a sore loser..
Screenshot_20201111-084539.png
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:00 pm

doodle wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:21 pm
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
1. It is not that far fetched. Jill Stein had enough proof of machines changing votes to review the source code and squash a gag order a couple weeks ago. It took her years of fighting, millions of dollars, and she even had the support of Hillary.

I recently saw something that said the machines were routinely sold on ebay, can be easily be opened up, have peripheral ports, and could be loaded with malicious code in less than 5 minutes.

2. You think that problem can only happen in Texas? Do you think all hacked databases know they were hacked? Regardless, pick a state. What do you need? Arizona? Okay... took 2 seconds:

https://time.com/4472169/russian-hacker ... istration/

3. How much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

Furthermore, how many times can you realistically really forge someone’s signature in-person without arising suspicion? What your risk of being caught?

Same question... this time using snail mail.

Obviously, infinitely more fraud is likely to occur with mail-in votes both in sheer quantity and in minimal chance of being caught.

4. Again, how much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.

5. I find it very strange you keep saying “there is no proof”. I think what you mean to say YOU have no access to proof. 2 very different things.

The lawyers have access to evidence through subpoenas in the discovery stage (that often can’t be made public) ...we have access to what exactly? It sounds like you require preliminary evidence published by a major network to think there is a chance of widespread fraud (which would be strange since considering the media blackout if Hunter Biden).

Respectfully, to rule out the possibility of fraud because an ongoing investigation lacks public disclosure seems like blind bias. We don’t know what we don’t know. Widespread fraud would likely only be identified during discovery. Yet you seem to be claiming otherwise.
If there is fraud what makes you think it's attributable to Biden? Why not republican fraud? Perhaps Bidens margin should have been even larger. Also, these allegations of fraud are what the Donald does. Do you think there was fraud in Iowa in 2016? Trump sure thought so. He's a sore loser..Screenshot_20201111-084539.png
What makes you think that I think that? You are projecting your own bias.

Nevertheless. Biden can also take action to investigate fraud. If he was an honest person I suspect he would. I suspect the reason he doesn’t is because he has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

The courts aren’t going to give 2 $hits what Trump’s thoughts were in 2016. Not sure why you think that would matter. Either there was fraud in 2020 or there wasn’t. It’s that simple.

Besides, you do realize it isn’t only Trump bringing the lawsuits, right?
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:08 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
1. It is not that far fetched. Jill Stein had enough proof of machines changing votes to review the source code and squash a gag order a couple weeks ago. It took her years of fighting, millions of dollars, and she even had the support of Hillary.

I recently saw something that said the machines were routinely sold on ebay, can be easily be opened up, have peripheral ports, and could be loaded with malicious code in less than 5 minutes.

2. You think that problem can only happen in Texas? Do you think all hacked databases know they were hacked? Regardless, pick a state. What do you need? Arizona? Okay... took 2 seconds:

https://time.com/4472169/russian-hacker ... istration/

3. How much evidence do you need before you have “proof”? Investigations are still going on based on evidence.
You trust what you read online way too much. Just because you read something online does not make it true. I have seen 0 evidence of fraud presented in any of Trump's cases. They are all piddly little cases over a couple votes here or there that may have been counted against the rules set by the state. No mass fraud. Not enough votes to actually change anything. And basically everything so far has been dismissed. Unless he brings some actual proof to the table, he needs to shut his mouth, imo. If he wants there to be investigations that's one thing. I'm all for investigating if there is question. But, in the meantime, he needs to stop with the baseless claims. And when the result of the investigation and courts come through, he needs to accept it and own it.
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
2. You think that problem can only happen in Texas? Do you think all hacked databases know they were hacked? Regardless, pick a state. What do you need? Arizona? Okay... took 2 seconds:

https://time.com/4472169/russian-hacker ... istration/
Voter registration hacking is a different topic altogether. Voter registration hacking will effect in person and mail-in equally. Let's not forget, the article you posted in question was for AZ in 2016... a state which voted for Trump in 2016. So are you trying to say that Trump won AZ only because of fraud back in 2016?
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
Furthermore, how many times can you realistically really forge someone’s signature in-person without arising suspicion? What your risk of being caught?

Same question... this time using snail mail.

Obviously, infinitely more fraud is likely to occur with mail-in votes both in sheer quantity and in minimal chance of being caught.
Fair point. But your articles you posted basically claimed that signature verification was a facade and that they could basically sign anything and get it accepted. So my response was towards that.
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:11 pm
5. I find it very strange you keep saying “there is no proof”. I think what you mean to say YOU have no access to proof. 2 very different things.

The lawyers have access to evidence through subpoenas in the discovery stage (that often can’t be made public) ...we have access to what exactly? It sounds like you require preliminary evidence published by a major network to think there is a chance of widespread fraud (which would be strange since considering the media blackout if Hunter Biden).

Respectfully, to rule out the possibility of fraud because an ongoing investigation lacks public disclosure seems like blind bias. We don’t know what we don’t know. Widespread fraud would likely only be identified during discovery. Yet you seem to be claiming otherwise.
No, what I am saying is there is no proof. It is not hidden, you can go look at the suits filed, no proof. You can listen to the State elections boards across the country that say no proof. Hell, you can listen to the Dept of Homeland Security that also released an official statement that there is no proof. It is always on the accuser to present proof of guilt. So far, there has been no proof of large scale fraud. It's all mind control propaganda and nothing more.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:01 am

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:00 pm
The courts aren’t going to give 2 $hits what Trump’s thoughts were in 2016. Not sure why you think that would matter. Either there was fraud in 2020 or there wasn’t. It’s that simple.

Besides, you do realize it isn’t only Trump bringing the lawsuits, right?
Trump and his allies...in other words Trump Inc.

I acknowledge that what Trump said in 2016 isn't legal evidence, so in the sense of current litigation it doesn't matter. However, it does show that when Trump loses he has a habit of screeching fraud...which is exactly what he is doing with this loss. At the very least that history coupled with the now dozen lawsuits that have been tossed out by the courts for making baseless claims should make people like you and all those who think there is something to this begin to question the veracity of these fraud claims....maybe it's just more noisy bullshit emanating out of our conman president. At what point do you accept that? When 100 lawsuits have been tossed out?
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:53 am

doodle wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:01 am
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:00 pm
The courts aren’t going to give 2 $hits what Trump’s thoughts were in 2016. Not sure why you think that would matter. Either there was fraud in 2020 or there wasn’t. It’s that simple.

Besides, you do realize it isn’t only Trump bringing the lawsuits, right?
Trump and his allies...in other words Trump Inc.

I acknowledge that what Trump said in 2016 isn't legal evidence, so in the sense of current litigation it doesn't matter. However, it does show that when Trump loses he has a habit of screeching fraud...which is exactly what he is doing with this loss. At the very least that history coupled with the now dozen lawsuits that have been tossed out by the courts for making baseless claims should make people like you and all those who think there is something to this begin to question the veracity of these fraud claims....maybe it's just more noisy bullshit emanating out of our conman president. At what point do you accept that? When 100 lawsuits have been tossed out?
Yes. Maybe some of the Tump supporters here could answer the question of what would it take to make them admit that Trump lost the election fair and square? It seems like the courts, state elections boards, and even the Dept of Homeland Security saying there was no evidence of fraud is not enough to convince them. Is there anything that can convince them? And if there is no amount of evidence that will convince them, and they still would take Trump's word over all that proof... well that's freaking frightening. If all a politician has to do is Tweet something and everyone believe it, that is an incredibly scary thing. This is how freedom and liberty truly are lost, and authoritarian governments come to power... it's all on the back of propaganda.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:53 am
doodle wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:01 am
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:00 pm
The courts aren’t going to give 2 $hits what Trump’s thoughts were in 2016. Not sure why you think that would matter. Either there was fraud in 2020 or there wasn’t. It’s that simple.

Besides, you do realize it isn’t only Trump bringing the lawsuits, right?
Trump and his allies...in other words Trump Inc.

I acknowledge that what Trump said in 2016 isn't legal evidence, so in the sense of current litigation it doesn't matter. However, it does show that when Trump loses he has a habit of screeching fraud...which is exactly what he is doing with this loss. At the very least that history coupled with the now dozen lawsuits that have been tossed out by the courts for making baseless claims should make people like you and all those who think there is something to this begin to question the veracity of these fraud claims....maybe it's just more noisy bullshit emanating out of our conman president. At what point do you accept that? When 100 lawsuits have been tossed out?
Yes. Maybe some of the Tump supporters here could answer the question of what would it take to make them admit that Trump lost the election fair and square? It seems like the courts, state elections boards, and even the Dept of Homeland Security saying there was no evidence of fraud is not enough to convince them. Is there anything that can convince them? And if there is no amount of evidence that will convince them, and they still would take Trump's word over all that proof... well that's freaking frightening. If all a politician has to do is Tweet something and everyone believe it, that is an incredibly scary thing. This is how freedom and liberty truly are lost, and authoritarian governments come to power... it's all on the back of propaganda.
You guys are right. You win. Computerized voting is secure. Management systems that store important information are secured and are never hacked. Only Republicans claim otherwise. Good job. ::)

On a different subject...I found these very interesting in regards to the machines being used:

https://www.propublica.org/article/the- ... ived-in-it

Note: Jill Stein squashed the gag order and won the right to review the source code 2 weeks ago.

https://www.sos.texas.gov/elections/for ... ringer.pdf

Here is where they hacked a voting machine to play a Rick Astley song:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/201 ... 523639001/
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm

You guys are right. You win. Computerized voting is secure. Management systems that store important information are secured and are never hacked. Only Republicans claim otherwise. Good job. ::)
Maybe we got this all ass backwards. Trump won 2016 after polls showed he was probably going to lose. Trump lost 2020 only by a little whereas the polls were having him trounced.

Maybe it is the republicans hacking the machines? But they just aren't as good at it as the dems? O0
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by pmward » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:06 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 pm
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm

You guys are right. You win. Computerized voting is secure. Management systems that store important information are secured and are never hacked. Only Republicans claim otherwise. Good job. ::)
Maybe we got this all ass backwards. Trump won 2016 after polls showed he was probably going to lose. Trump lost 2020 only by a little whereas the polls were having him trounced.

Maybe it is the republicans hacking the machines? But they just aren't as good at it as the dems? O0
Well, I wouldn't say the dems are good at it, because *if* they actually did fraud/hack they apparently forgot to fraud/hack the senate and house votes on the same ballots they supposedly frauded the presidential race on.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:29 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:06 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 pm
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm

You guys are right. You win. Computerized voting is secure. Management systems that store important information are secured and are never hacked. Only Republicans claim otherwise. Good job. ::)
Maybe we got this all ass backwards. Trump won 2016 after polls showed he was probably going to lose. Trump lost 2020 only by a little whereas the polls were having him trounced.

Maybe it is the republicans hacking the machines? But they just aren't as good at it as the dems? O0
Well, I wouldn't say the dems are good at it, because *if* they actually did fraud/hack they apparently forgot to fraud/hack the senate and house votes on the same ballots they supposedly frauded the presidential race on.
Yeah if you're going to go to that length and trouble better go all the way and not set your president up for four years of gridlock.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:36 pm

Trump backers now dropping lawsuits in four states...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/trump- ... nsin.html

How many lawsuits now have come and gone?
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:51 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:06 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 pm
ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:42 pm

You guys are right. You win. Computerized voting is secure. Management systems that store important information are secured and are never hacked. Only Republicans claim otherwise. Good job. ::)
Maybe we got this all ass backwards. Trump won 2016 after polls showed he was probably going to lose. Trump lost 2020 only by a little whereas the polls were having him trounced.

Maybe it is the republicans hacking the machines? But they just aren't as good at it as the dems? O0
Well, I wouldn't say the dems are good at it, because *if* they actually did fraud/hack they apparently forgot to fraud/hack the senate and house votes on the same ballots they supposedly frauded the presidential race on.
That IS THE logical question for which the Trump supporters seem to have NO logical answer.

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Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by InsuranceGuy » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:47 pm

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Last edited by InsuranceGuy on Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:40 am

Simonjester wrote: statistical annalists ?
https://thenationalpulse.com/news/stats ... me-scheme/
Just curious who this non Partisan author of the study is ..Dr. Louis Anthony Cox Jr....judging by the first thing I pulled up it doesn't seem like maybe he is so non Partisan...and a lot of scientists seem to question his adherence to science....so that makes me question his latest "scientific" analysis of the election results.

"The Trump administration’s reliance on industry-funded environmental specialists is again coming under fire, this time by researchers who say that Louis Anthony “Tony” Cox Jr., who leads a key Environmental Protection Agency advisory board on air pollution, is a “fringe” scientist and ideologue pushing policies detrimental to public health.

In a paper published Thursday in the journal Science, two air pollution scientists say that Cox is ignoring consensus viewpoints on the effects of smog and particulate pollution.

The scientists, Gretchen Goldman of the Union of Concerned Scientists and Francesca Dominici of Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health, suggest that Cox risks upending “the time-tested and scientifically backed” process that has led to nationwide improvements in air quality and better protection of people’s health."
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 am

Simonjester wrote: ignoring consensus viewpoints

damn that's just so unscientific.... ::)
Flat earthers ignore consensus viewpoints as well.

Ignoring his science....the intro states this is a non Partisan study...that is obviously a lie.....not a good way to start off building trust in the rest of what you have to say.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:25 am

Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:58 am
Simonjester wrote: ignoring consensus viewpoints

damn that's just so unscientific.... ::)
Flat earthers ignore consensus viewpoints as well.

Ignoring his science....the intro states this is a non Partisan study...that is obviously a lie.....not a good way to start off building trust in the rest of what you have to say.
so did the round earthers .. before we figured out out wasn't flat...
There was never a time in recorded history where any intelligent people thought the earth was flat....only in the information age of conspiracy do people with access to photos from space come to these head scratching conclusions. Trump and his ilk seem to have a similar penchant to question the laws of gravity.
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Re: Florida 2000

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:00 am

Simonjester wrote: missing the point... ...how science actually works...

nice throw in of a random trump bash though...
... good grief..
this political shit is making me convinced humanity is doomed to eternal stupidity..
My bashing of Trump is completely apolitical and well deserved.

I don't have an issue with science, I have an issue with people like John Droz (co-author of linked study) of trying to pass bullshit political propaganda off as nonpartisan scientific analysis. It's the same bullshit duplicitous deceptive behavior that Trump continuously engages in. There is nothing remotely scientific about trying to manipulate science to fit into your preconceived political agenda.
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