Election meaningless unless we change for the better

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:23 pm

pmward wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:16 pm
"Low class" means poor, just like "upper class" means rich and "middle class" means average income. So if somebody leaves their kids toys out front, or if their kids misbehave in public... Does that mean they are poor? Does that mean they are criminals? Does that mean they are in a gang? Does that mean they are less valuable than someone who's kids pick up after themselves and behave in public?

Flip side: if someone's kids pick up after themselves and behave... does that mean those people have to be either "middle class" or "upper class"? Does that mean they are not criminals? Does that mean they are more valuable than someone who's kids don't pick up after themselves and don't behave in public?

We can judge an individual for having a messy yard, we can judge someone for having misbehaving kids, but we cannot assume that because of these things that all the other traits that fit the "low class" stereotype fit them. Moreover, we cannot look at someone that we think looks "low class" without any proof or knowledge of them as a person, and assume that all the above traits fit them.
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I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. Who knows whether that person will be wise or foolish? Yet they will have control over all the fruit of my toil into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. . . Nothing is better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by doodle » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Kbg » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:48 am

No no no he did not there was a wide spread conspiracy to deny him the election...really the gnomes are powerful. No way 75m votes beat 72m votes without a conspiracy.

7-5 is 2 and 7-2 is 5 so Trump won by a landslide.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am

doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)
I marvel at the creation - its beauty, its endurance, its complexity. I marvel that man can make complex things but is incapable of making even the simplest living organism - a blade of grass, a tree, an ant, an amoeba.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)

You are preaching ends justify means.

In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)

You are preaching ends justify means.

In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Please explain. I don’t understand how you get this ends vs means from me, or that I put my faith in any politicians. Thanks.
I marvel at the creation - its beauty, its endurance, its complexity. I marvel that man can make complex things but is incapable of making even the simplest living organism - a blade of grass, a tree, an ant, an amoeba.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by InsuranceGuy » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:16 pm

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Wait, are you talking about Biden or Trump? They are both documented liars and frankly anyone who things otherwise is drinking too much of the Kool-aid.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:59 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)
You are preaching ends justify means.

In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Please explain. I don’t understand how you get this ends vs means from me, or that I put my faith in any politicians. Thanks.
Quoting your from above: "And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition."

How else can that be interpreted that other than "the ends justify the means" and you support someone who is documented liar and whom you'd otherwise never trust?

No secret I have major problems with Trump, not the least that he seems to possess even one positive character trait we tend to prize in our leaders, coworkers, friends, family members.

I also have my problems with Biden, which is why I also did not vote for him. When severe problems develop with him and his administration I don't want to feel complicit.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by vnatale » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:01 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:16 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Wait, are you talking about Biden or Trump? They are both documented liars and frankly anyone who things otherwise is drinking too much of the Kool-aid.
Look back to another response I just made elsewhere.

Analogizing it to baseball players...in regards to telling lies.....Biden is ether a bench warmer or a fringe regular. Trump is sui generis. A First Ballot Hall of Famer. THE Babe Ruth of presidents AND all our country's politicians ever!

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:03 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:59 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)
You are preaching ends justify means.

In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Please explain. I don’t understand how you get this ends vs means from me, or that I put my faith in any politicians. Thanks.
Quoting your from above: "And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition."

How else can that be interpreted that other than "the ends justify the means" and you support someone who is documented liar and whom you'd otherwise never trust?

No secret I have major problems with Trump, not the least that he seems to possess even one positive character trait we tend to prize in our leaders, coworkers, friends, family members.

I also have my problems with Biden, which is why I also did not vote for him. When severe problems develop with him and his administration I don't want to feel complicit.

Vinny
Vinny, your answer to my question may answer it in your mind, but not in mine. I may have previously not been clear as to my thoughts, forgive me, and let me try again to explain my views:

1. President Trump is not my man, nor is former VP Biden. I think they both have serious character flaws (as do all of us) from what I hear them say and do; I do not know them personally so I guess you could say I'm basing my opinion on hearsay. I am not into moralism as a religion (or as some might say 'moralistic therapeutic deism') and I think that Christ-like behavior as defined in Scripture is a virtue even though no human lives up to that example.

2. No politician is 'my man'. I think they mostly all are self-serving and will do whatever they think will further their careers, or best line their pockets. I do think some are better than others.

3. I do not put my faith in man; I'm actually quite surprised you would gather that from all of my previous posting. Psalm 146:3 (ESV) Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.

4. I think the policies of the current Republican administration (flawed as they are since they are put forth by self-serving politicians and bureaucrats) are better for US citizens than the policies of the Democrats, particularly concerning the First, Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments. Life is not black and white, it is a huge spectrum from darkness to light. I think the R's policies bring and will keep the US closer to light than the D's in spite of all the things I do not like about the R's policies.

5. I think God puts our civil rulers in place for reasons we may not understand; I believe God rules over the civil realm as well as the spiritual realm. I think we should follow those rulers unless they conflict with clear Biblical teaching; in case of conflict we should, follow God, resist the civil rulers, and be ready to bear the consequences. In regard for how I'm told to live my life by our rulers, I think President Trump conflicts with Biblical teaching less than what I perceive former VP Biden does and would do, especially when it comes to matters of life, death, and freedom for the people who live in the United States.

6. I do not think ends justify the means (if you intend to say you think that I said favorable ends should and should be allowed to be pursued by unethical means - e.g. torture to obtain a confession). I think ends and means are both important. I think I am justified (made righteous) because of what Christ did on the cross - that is the only justification that is truly important.

Thus, I still fail to understand why you perceive I endorse "ends justify the means" re. President Trump and his policies, and secondly, why you perceive I put my faith somewhere other than in the Triune God.

Blessings and have a great day!
I marvel at the creation - its beauty, its endurance, its complexity. I marvel that man can make complex things but is incapable of making even the simplest living organism - a blade of grass, a tree, an ant, an amoeba.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:43 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:03 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:59 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm
vnatale wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:46 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:32 am
doodle wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:40 pm
So what do you all think about the Rudy G. Et al news conference today about election fraud? Only saw a couple of minutes of it after a friend called me. Seems like a really big deal.

Lol! The rambling incoherent monologue of an insane man. Only to be outdone by his last press conference from the parking lot of the four seasons landscaping company across from the dildo mart.

Face the facts, M. Your man lost to the worst candidate in our countrys history.
Well doodle, in spite of your aspersions, for the sake of my friends and our country, our children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, and whatever offspring they may produce, I sure hope you are correct. And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition. I do agree with you that former VP Biden is the probably the worst (I'll define that for you: most corrupt, lying, unprincipled, no backbone of his own) presidential candidate in our country's history; I truly feel sorry for the man on how he is being used by many people the party he represents.

God's blessings and have a marvelous day. :)
You are preaching ends justify means.

In what other areas in your life do you ever put your faith in anyone who is a documented liar and, therefore, completely untrustworthy?

From what I've gathered from you in this forum I strongly suspect that your answer would be...."No one else. There is always too much at stake to ever put trust in such a person."

Vinny
Please explain. I don’t understand how you get this ends vs means from me, or that I put my faith in any politicians. Thanks.
Quoting your from above: "And, FWIW, President Trump is not my man, but his policies are mostly policies I support and policies that I believe are far better for our country than his press and progressive opposition."

How else can that be interpreted that other than "the ends justify the means" and you support someone who is documented liar and whom you'd otherwise never trust?

No secret I have major problems with Trump, not the least that he seems to possess even one positive character trait we tend to prize in our leaders, coworkers, friends, family members.

I also have my problems with Biden, which is why I also did not vote for him. When severe problems develop with him and his administration I don't want to feel complicit.

Vinny
Vinny, your answer to my question may answer it in your mind, but not in mine. I may have previously not been clear as to my thoughts, forgive me, and let me try again to explain my views:

1. President Trump is not my man, nor is former VP Biden. I think they both have serious character flaws (as do all of us) from what I hear them say and do; I do not know them personally so I guess you could say I'm basing my opinion on hearsay. I am not into moralism as a religion (or as some might say 'moralistic therapeutic deism') and I think that Christ-like behavior as defined in Scripture is a virtue even though no human lives up to that example.

2. No politician is 'my man'. I think they mostly all are self-serving and will do whatever they think will further their careers, or best line their pockets. I do think some are better than others.

3. I do not put my faith in man; I'm actually quite surprised you would gather that from all of my previous posting. Psalm 146:3 (ESV) Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.

4. I think the policies of the current Republican administration (flawed as they are since they are put forth by self-serving politicians and bureaucrats) are better for US citizens than the policies of the Democrats, particularly concerning the First, Second, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments. Life is not black and white, it is a huge spectrum from darkness to light. I think the R's policies bring and will keep the US closer to light than the D's in spite of all the things I do not like about the R's policies.

5. I think God puts our civil rulers in place for reasons we may not understand; I believe God rules over the civil realm as well as the spiritual realm. I think we should follow those rulers unless they conflict with clear Biblical teaching; in case of conflict we should, follow God, resist the civil rulers, and be ready to bear the consequences. In regard for how I'm told to live my life by our rulers, I think President Trump conflicts with Biblical teaching less than what I perceive former VP Biden does and would do, especially when it comes to matters of life, death, and freedom for the people who live in the United States.

6. I do not think ends justify the means (if you intend to say you think that I said favorable ends should and should be allowed to be pursued by unethical means - e.g. torture to obtain a confession). I think ends and means are both important. I think I am justified (made righteous) because of what Christ did on the cross - that is the only justification that is truly important.

Thus, I still fail to understand why you perceive I endorse "ends justify the means" re. President Trump and his policies, and secondly, why you perceive I put my faith somewhere other than in the Triune God.

Blessings and have a great day!
Thanks you for taking the time to write all that you have. It clarifies much.

There are two parts to it. Your beliefs and how you apply your beliefs.

It is somewhat familiar to reading the Bible. There are the actual words and then there are both the interpretation of those words and the application of those interpretations.

My bottom line is that due to Trump possessing not one single character virtue he should be outright rejected as being president of our country. No matter how much his or his party's policies better align with the Bible. Common sense dictates that he has never been qualified to lead this country in any way. I just cannot get by that.

Vinny
"I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by doodle » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:53 am


5. I think God puts our civil rulers in place for reasons we may not understand; I believe God rules over the civil realm as well as the spiritual realm. I think we should follow those rulers unless they conflict with clear Biblical teaching; in case of conflict we should, follow God, resist the civil rulers, and be ready to bear the consequences. In regard for how I'm told to live my life by our rulers, I think President Trump conflicts with Biblical teaching less than what I perceive former VP Biden does and would do, especially when it comes to matters of life, death, and freedom for the people who live in the United States.

You're in the wrong country man. We fought a revolution to overthrow our shitty civil rulers...then we wrote a constitution that doesn't mention God at all.
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