Election meaningless unless we change for the better

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InsuranceGuy
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Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by InsuranceGuy » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:11 pm

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/colu ... 102179002/

A couple of quotes the resonated with me:

"My biggest fear isn’t who sits in the Oval Office come January; if the rest of us keep conducting ourselves the way we have been the last six months, it won’t make a difference."

"We've attacked one another over the simple act of wearing a mask. People have been shot. A security guard was killed. Over a mask? We die on the hill for that?"

"Well, here’s some breaking news: the struggle isn’t going away. It won’t magically disappear on Tuesday night. We will eventually have a freshly elected president, but he’ll be presiding over the same nation, the same people, the same Congress, the same media and the same disagreements."

"A common refrain has been, 'If Trump goes away, we’ll all go back to being nicer.' That’s naïve, like a 5-year-old pointing to his kid brother and saying, 'He started it!'"

"No matter who wins the White House, half the country will view it as Armageddon and vow to fight the oppressors."

"The truth is, our future won’t be determined by who we choose to lead us this week. It will be determined by how we act after we do."

"If the winners gloat and the losers threaten, we won’t be any better than we’ve been the last six months. And does anyone really want the country of the last six months to be the country of the next four years?"

Enjoy!
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by boglerdude » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:03 am

Media sides with Biden. It'll go back to what it was like under Obama
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by doodle » Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:09 am

As I posted in toxic Media, I believe our population is being manipulated and intentionally confused by various interested parties. Some of them foreign state actors such as Russia and China that want to bring us to our knees but don't dare start a conventional war with us. Their plan is to sew seeds of discord within us to the point where we literally destroy ourselves from the inside.

Some of them are powerful corporate interests that benefit from keeping the population confused and afraid. The media in general is aware that fear based narratives and conflicts hold peoples attention. Whether this is on the right or the left it doesn't matter. Both sides have their narratives. They whip up opinion based stories to intentionally inflame their audiences emotions instead of remaining based in fact or maintaining boring journalistic integrity.

Currently I don't see any hope of us becoming civil towards one another when our passions are being constantly inflamed in this way. I think at this point, if something doesn't change we are going to tear this nation to pieces. That will be great news for Putin, Xi and any other autocrat that wants to operate as they please on the world stage without fear of repercussions.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by pp4me » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:43 pm

doodle wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:09 am
As I posted in toxic Media, I believe our population is being manipulated and intentionally confused by various interested parties. Some of them foreign state actors such as Russia and China that want to bring us to our knees but don't dare start a conventional war with us. Their plan is to sew seeds of discord within us to the point where we literally destroy ourselves from the inside.
Personally, I tend to think there is major manipulation but it is more "domestic" than "foreign". I'd say we have to wait to see hard evidence either way but then again I wonder if that is even possible. One side says "there is no evidence" and censors opposing voices while the other says "here's the evidence". We saw it with the Putin/Russia thing, the Hunter Biden thing, and now the election. I'm kind of getting your point that we need an authoritative voice of information that we can really trust but I think we are way beyond that and it isn't even possible.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by InsuranceGuy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:30 am

doodle wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:09 am
Currently I don't see any hope of us becoming civil towards one another when our passions are being constantly inflamed in this way. I think at this point, if something doesn't change we are going to tear this nation to pieces.
I have to agree that we are likely headed toward splitting the USA into 2-3 countries whether amicably or through a civil war the way things are going.
pp4me wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:43 pm
Personally, I tend to think there is major manipulation but it is more "domestic" than "foreign". I'd say we have to wait to see hard evidence either way but then again I wonder if that is even possible.
I'm inclined the believe that those within our borders who seek to retain power have just as much interest as any foreign entity.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by pp4me » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:37 pm

I think it is well within our capabilities to build a voting system that is as close to 100% reliable as it can be. I mean, we can and have sent people to the moon and right now we have a rover on Mars being remotely controlled at NASA. So how is it possible that we cannot do this?

The only answer I have is because it's politically impossible and this is because one side of the political spectrum fears accuracy in the data. To them, accuracy = voter suppression which I take to mean that it will not allow them to cheat. Why else would they oppose accuracy whenever Republicans suggest it - like even such a simple thing as requiring an ID to vote. Can't think of any other reasons myself but I'm open to suggestions.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Tortoise » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:44 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:37 pm
I think it is well within our capabilities to build a voting system that is as close to 100% reliable as it can be. I mean, we can and have sent people to the moon and right now we have a rover on Mars being remotely controlled at NASA. So how is it possible that we cannot do this?

The only answer I have is because it's politically impossible and this is because one side of the political spectrum fears accuracy in the data. To them, accuracy = voter suppression which I take to mean that it will not allow them to cheat. Why else would they oppose accuracy whenever Republicans suggest it - like even such a simple thing as requiring an ID to vote. Can't think of any other reasons myself but I'm open to suggestions.
I think the Dem push-back against voter IDs is mainly for the simple reason that it would reduce the number of likely Dem votes (illegal immigrants and people who are too lazy to go through the steps to obtain a voter ID). They claim it would "disenfranchise" them.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by pmward » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:58 pm

pp4me wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:37 pm
I think it is well within our capabilities to build a voting system that is as close to 100% reliable as it can be. I mean, we can and have sent people to the moon and right now we have a rover on Mars being remotely controlled at NASA. So how is it possible that we cannot do this?
This system is already here, it's called blockchain. The problem is that fairness and reduced fraud are really not what this is about. It's a facade that is hiding the true intent. If they really wanted fairness, full tracking, and full immutability they would institute blockchain and allow people to vote that way. But, as mentioned in the other thread, this would encourage the young (mostly liberal) voters to turn out in greater numbers, and that would actually work against them. Do they want fairness or to win? They want to win. They could give a shit about fairness. If there is fraud, there is fraud on both sides.
pp4me wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:37 pm
The only answer I have is because it's politically impossible and this is because one side of the political spectrum fears accuracy in the data. To them, accuracy = voter suppression which I take to mean that it will not allow them to cheat. Why else would they oppose accuracy whenever Republicans suggest it - like even such a simple thing as requiring an ID to vote. Can't think of any other reasons myself but I'm open to suggestions.
I have not seen this fear of voting accuracy. I have not seen anyone say that Trump is not in his rights to file suits. I have not seen anyone say that fraud is good or that an investigation should be avoided if there is question. But the fact is that the courts keep dismissing case after case for lack of evidence. It's a moot point. I don't think Trump actually holds any hope that he will win. It's all a show. It's a political tactic to help him keep his fist firmly around the Republican Party when he is out of office and to set up the narrative for his 2024 campaign.

Aside from that I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. I think the political divide we currently have is the single biggest threat to our country today. I think both sides have legitimate gripes and a legitimate reason to be unhappy. I actually think there are more similarities between the average conservative and average liberal than we give them credit for. They all feel powerless and manipulated. They all know something is not right in the division of wealth, prosperity, and power in our country. They all want to be free, to have a chance at the American dream. They all want to have a fair shake. They all want to feel accepted, valued, and free of repression. If we look at how much in common both sides have, and the real problem being that the low and middle class have been held down at the upper classes expense, well I think there is hope in that middle ground to eventually come to some bipartisan solutions that can actually make a difference and fix the real issues that are the root cause of this polarization.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by doodle » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:22 pm


They all know something is not right in the division of wealth, prosperity, and power in our country. They all want to be free, to have a chance at the American dream. They all want to have a fair shake. They all want to feel accepted, valued, and free of repression. If we look at how much in common both sides have, and the real problem being that the low and middle class have been held down at the upper classes expense, well I think there is hope in that middle ground to eventually come to some bipartisan solutions that can actually make a difference and fix the real issues that are the root cause of this polarization.
That is communist heresy on this board.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by Maddy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:37 pm


They all know something is not right in the division of wealth, prosperity, and power in our country. They all want to be free, to have a chance at the American dream. They all want to have a fair shake. They all want to feel accepted, valued, and free of repression. If we look at how much in common both sides have, and the real problem being that the low and middle class have been held down at the upper classes expense, well I think there is hope in that middle ground to eventually come to some bipartisan solutions that can actually make a difference and fix the real issues that are the root cause of this polarization.
Who could disagree with that? Which leads me to ask why the Progressive Left is lining up behind the very worst of the oppressors.

Maybe because what they really want is a seat at the table?
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:11 pm

onward
Aside from that I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. I think the political divide we currently have is the single biggest threat to our country today. I think both sides have legitimate gripes and a legitimate reason to be unhappy. I actually think there are more similarities between the average conservative and average liberal than we give them credit for. They all feel powerless and manipulated. They all know something is not right in the division of wealth, prosperity, and power in our country. They all want to be free, to have a chance at the American dream. They all want to have a fair shake. They all want to feel accepted, valued, and free of repression. If we look at how much in common both sides have, and the real problem being that the low and middle class have been held down at the upper classes expense, well I think there is hope in that middle ground to eventually come to some bipartisan solutions that can actually make a difference and fix the real issues that are the root cause of this polarization.
I really don’t know any conservatives who feel like that. Basically they take responsibility for their lives and want to be left in peace. The pursuit of happiness as it was put famously.
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Re: Election meaningless unless we change for the better

Post by pmward » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:23 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:11 pm
onward
Aside from that I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. I think the political divide we currently have is the single biggest threat to our country today. I think both sides have legitimate gripes and a legitimate reason to be unhappy. I actually think there are more similarities between the average conservative and average liberal than we give them credit for. They all feel powerless and manipulated. They all know something is not right in the division of wealth, prosperity, and power in our country. They all want to be free, to have a chance at the American dream. They all want to have a fair shake. They all want to feel accepted, valued, and free of repression. If we look at how much in common both sides have, and the real problem being that the low and middle class have been held down at the upper classes expense, well I think there is hope in that middle ground to eventually come to some bipartisan solutions that can actually make a difference and fix the real issues that are the root cause of this polarization.
I really don’t know any conservatives who feel like that. Basically they take responsibility for their lives and want to be left in peace. The pursuit of happiness as it was put famously.
What about all the conservatives that fret over immigrants taking their jobs? That fret about taxes? That fret about a push for diversity that might not favor them? Both sides feel this way, it just comes out in a different manner.
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