The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

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vnatale
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The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by vnatale » Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:02 am

https://newrepublic.com/article/176854/ ... rain-drain


SMART MOVES
The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

As conservative states wage total culture war, college-educated workers—physicians, teachers, professors, and more—are packing their bags.




Meanwhile, with the sole exception of Texas, red states are bleeding college graduates. It’s happening even in relatively prosperous Florida. And much as Republicans may scorn Joe (and Jane) College, they need them to deliver their babies, to teach their children, to pay taxes—college grads pay more than twice as much in taxes—and to provide a host of other services that only people with undergraduate or graduate degrees are able to provide. Red states should be welcoming Kate and Caroline and Tyler and Delana. Instead, they’re driving them away, and that’s already costing them dearly.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Fri Dec 01, 2023 11:59 am

Both of my daughters left Texas recently. They can't really get 100% comprehensive gynecological care here. Ectopic pregnancy? Fetus going to inevitably die? We're sorry. Come back when you're septic and your internal organs are failing. Then we'll talk.

One of them at least wants to have kids, but I'm glad she went to a place (PNW) where trying to have my grandkids won't cost her her life. Texas already had an extremely high maternal mortality rate, this cuts across income levels and races. It's going to get worse.

As some of you know, my wife has cancer. She's not childbearing age... but if she were, and if she were pregnant... here in Texas she would be refused her lifesaving chemo, which would be expected to induce a miscarriage. How effing insane is that?

This has nothing really to do with whether you think elective abortion is ethical or not. What is happening in Red State is the government is "playing doctor" in a poorly thought out way that even endangers the lives of women who WANT kids, or cancer patients. Providers are so afraid they will be prosecuted and sued and even jailed for the difficult OB/GYN cases that they're sitting on their hands, or leaving as well.

Who would want to do an OB/GYN residency in Houston as compared to Chicago? Pretend training, simulations, watching movies, reading papers? That's no substitute for difficult clinical cases. Red State trained OB/GYNS will mostly only be hired by Red State practices. There will be two-tiers of training.

There are places in Red State small towns where ALL the OB/GYNs have left. Zero care for any women. Ideology has run them off, kind of like Afghanistan offers little or no care for women. It's shameful. That compounds the problems small towns already had with hospitals closing with another kind of problem.

The complete 100% irony... if you get an infection from a dead fetus is left hanging around, assuming you live, you might end up sterile. How's that pro-life?

Pro-health is pro-life, and grey-haired male legislators are not doctors and cannot make health care decisions.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:25 pm

Very sorry to hear about your wife.
I also didn’t know you had more than one daughter.
RIP Flaco 🦉 :'(
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:44 pm

One thing about Texas... most of the knowledge workers are NOT from Texas, even in the oilpatch. The modern Oil & Gas industry is very high tech. At least half of us immigrated to Texas for money and jobs. Texas does a pretty bad job of educating its native sons and daughters when you get right down to it. So the stakes are pretty high if the State can't retain the non-native workers and families. It's not like there's a rich creamy nougat center of native Texan STEM graduate students deep in the heart of Texas.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by boglerdude » Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

Any other Texans want to confirm?

Whats the motivation behind the pro-life folks. Are they really church goers? As a libertarian I dont get it but I want to at least empathize/understand

edit1 for some content: HWFO is a decent blog. https://hwfo.substack.com/p/newsoms-per-capita-shuffle
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:46 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:25 pm
Very sorry to hear about your wife.
I also didn’t know you had more than one daughter.
ochotona, I too am very sad to hear about your wife. Best wishes and blessings to you and your family that you find some satisfactory solutions to the issues.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:33 pm

Thank you for your sentiments. I appreciate it very much.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:08 am

Here it comes... Texas AG wants to prosecute the couple after a judge granted their emergency request for an abortion based on medical necessity.

Paxton wants to play doctor with women's lives. What a complete turd.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ag-ke ... r-AA1laBtk
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by vnatale » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am

ochotona wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:08 am

Here it comes... Texas AG wants to prosecute the couple after a judge granted their emergency request for an abortion based on medical necessity.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ag-ke ... r-AA1laBtk


Is he setting himself up to be a future Texas governor candidate?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:22 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
ochotona wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:08 am
Here it comes... Texas AG wants to prosecute the couple after a judge granted their emergency request for an abortion based on medical necessity.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ag-ke ... r-AA1laBtk
Is he setting himself up to be a future Texas governor candidate?
Probably, or run for US President.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:57 am

Are you a fan of Richard Wright at all, Ocho?
Although he’s a bit too far left for me on some issues I really liked his book on Texas. I’ll have to reborrow it someday.
RIP Flaco 🦉 :'(
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:37 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:57 am
Are you a fan of Richard Wright at all, Ocho?
Although he’s a bit too far left for me on some issues I really liked his book on Texas. I’ll have to reborrow it someday.
I don't know about Wright
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by dualstow » Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:16 pm

Oh, I messed up. His first name is Lawrence
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/354 ... save-texas
RIP Flaco 🦉 :'(
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by joypog » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:32 am

boglerdude wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm
Any other Texans want to confirm?

Whats the motivation behind the pro-life folks. Are they really church goers? As a libertarian I dont get it but I want to at least empathize/understand
I lived in Houston for 9 years, but left in 2013 only to move closer to family. As a big metro, Houston leaned blue, but not crazy so like the coasts, which is a bit of a sweet spot for my politics. I also loved living there and for lifestyle would happily move back.

It's easy to talk tough about moving out due to their politics since I'm already out...but I'm not sure I would actually to uproot my life just over this one issue. However, as much as I love Houston, I would not consider moving back, due to the insane politics in Texa around obgyn healthcare. Given the crazy story going on in the Texas courts, fuck that, I'm staying out.

As for pro-life folks...I grew up in a conservative church, so I grok their vibe that any life post-conception is precious and the cancellation of such life is MURDER. The congregation were all great folks so I have fond memories of them all even though I've been non-religious for twenty years. However, I still follow news about evangelicals and I sense that the last decade of culture wars has amped up the anger, fear, and callousness which has spilled out into their politics. IIRC a lot of self-identified evangelicals now don't attend church regularly, so it's becoming a quasi-religious movement that has the hard edge of conservative politics but without the softening balm of Jesus talk.

Tim Alberta just wrote a book about it, and of course Russell Moore and David French - all guys who are still conservative politically and religiously but equally taken aback at what's going on. From a slightly less politically conservative direction you can check out the Holy Post Podcast (with Phil Vischer of Veggie Tales fame). They are all wrestling with wtf is happening....
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:55 am

joypog wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:32 am
but without the softening balm of Jesus talk.
The words of Jesus are in red in my New King James bible, and he never talked about abortion! He he did hang out with prostitutes, whom He forgave.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by joypog » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:11 am

ochotona wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:55 am
joypog wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:32 am
but without the softening balm of Jesus talk.
The words of Jesus are in red in my New King James bible, and he never talked about abortion! He he did hang out with prostitutes, whom He forgave.
Russel Moore talks about pastors getting complaints about spouting socialist propaganda after quoting those red letter texts from the pulpit.

I suspect a non-zero portion of the political evangelicals would take umbrage at the Beatitudes, but not having gone to church in 20 years, that might be my left leaning stereotypes coming through.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:29 am

For those who need context:

The Beatitudes

The text of St. Matthew runs as follows:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)

SOUNDS "WOKE" TO ME!
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by vnatale » Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:53 am

joypog wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:11 am



I suspect a non-zero portion of the political evangelicals would take umbrage at the Beatitudes, but not having gone to church in 20 years, that might be my left leaning stereotypes coming through.


Way too many evangelicals completely destroyed their witness by voting for and supporting Trump, strictly because the ends justified the means.

Trump represents not a single shred of the ideal Christian person. To the contrary he represents the complete opposite of what all pastors exhort their congregants to be.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by joypog » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:04 am

ochotona wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:29 am
The text of St. Matthew runs as follows:
Thanks! Always good to reread the Beatitudes!

vnatale wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:53 am
joypog wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:11 am
I suspect a non-zero portion of the political evangelicals would take umbrage at the Beatitudes, but not having gone to church in 20 years, that might be my left leaning stereotypes coming through.
Way too many evangelicals completely destroyed their witness by voting for and supporting Trump, strictly because the ends justified the means.

Trump represents not a single shred of the ideal Christian person. To the contrary he represents the complete opposite of what all pastors exhort their congregants to be.
To be fair to evangelicals, I don't fault them for voting for Trump. Their pro-life position is strong enough where if you believe it's a genocide of the unborn I could see it being the deciding factor for their vote.

However, I cannot excuse their full throated support of Trump. It's a huge difference between "It is a tragic decision between Trump and Clinton, but as citizens we have a duty to vote for the less worse option, and we pray that God will give us a better choice in four years." to "Fuck the libtards, y'all thought we were soft, eat this Trump penis!"

I believe 2016 was more the former, but it quickly morphed into the latter. I hope they wake up with the 2024 primaries....which would be to their benefit both morally and politically - it would start them on the path of restoring their witness and I can't see how either Haley or DeSantis could lose to Biden.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by MarketIfTouched » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:20 am

The words of Jesus are in red in my New King James bible, and he never talked about abortion!
He didn't have to. The issue was settled thousands of years earlier in Exodus 20: Thou shall not kill.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by MarketIfTouched » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:28 am

"*!#% the libtards, y'all thought we were soft, [redacted]!"
I don't know of a single person who voted for President Trump in 2020 who feels this way.

The peeps I know who voted for Trump were concerned about open borders, domestic oil production, entanglement in endless wars, and defunding local law enforcement.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by ochotona » Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:54 am

MarketIfTouched wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:20 am
He didn't have to. The issue was settled thousands of years earlier in Exodus 20: Thou shall not kill.
I'm very glad you brought this up, because coming back to the present day, which are the parties more likely to cause death in the case of pregnant women with difficult pregnancies (Google on "placenta previa", "placental abruption", "eclampsia"):

1. Legislators, Jurists, and an Attorney General which are all hell-bent on enforcing a "Thou Shalt Not" law based on an arbitrary time limit?

or

2. A Medical Doctor, in consultation with the patient and family?

Because this is exactly the current situation with the Cox family in Texas. The woman is facing a possible emergency hysterectomy. This isn't exactly like lancing a boil.

Everyone agrees in "Thou Shalt Not Kill". The problem is, in real life, patients and families are faced with all kinds of complicated issues where life and death interface, and this is not just abortion. It's also the end of life... euthanasia.

There is a Red State case coming where someone will be denied CHEMOTHERAPY because it will kill the fetus. It's only a matter of time.
Last edited by ochotona on Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by joypog » Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:03 am

MarketIfTouched wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:28 am
"*!#% the libtards, y'all thought we were soft, [redacted]!"
I don't know of a single person who voted for President Trump in 2020 who feels this way.
And I aside from that dude in Iowa, I've heard no white evangelical leader bemoan the god awful option of Trump. But anecdata will only go so far and it will soon a moot point.

White evangelicals will soon get to help pick the GOP candidate in a few months. Unlike November, they've got options. We'll find out soon enough if ill character means anything to them. Let's hope pre-election polls are totally off like they were in 2016.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by vnatale » Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:27 pm

From the recent Tired of Winning book (I'm about to start Cheney's book who is also no Trump fan):

Reading the indictment and watching the public reaction from Republican leaders, one individual who had served at a high level in the Trump White House pulled out his computer and wrote down his thoughts. A few days later he shared what he had written with me.

“He lacks any shred of human decency, humility or caring,” the former White House official wrote of the man he had served for more than a year. “He is morally bankrupt, breathtakingly dishonest, lethally incompetent, and stunningly ignorant of virtually anything related to governing, history, geography, human events or world affairs. He is a traitor and a malignancy in our nation and represents a clear and present danger to our democracy and the rule of law.”

Those words were written by a person who had served Trump in a critical role in the West Wing. This person was not a high-profile public figure and has not openly criticized Trump. The individual shared his thoughts with me, but has chosen to remain anonymous—in large part to shield himself and, especially, his family from the vengeance Trump and his allies have directed at others who have turned on Trump.


I can find no excuse for the Evangelicals to vote for such a truly vile, incompetent person.

As I said the witness of the Evangelicals has been severely harmed. We are revealed by our actions, not what we say we believe.
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Re: The Red State Brain Drain Isn’t Coming. It’s Happening Right Now.

Post by jalanlong » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:29 pm

ochotona wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:44 pm
One thing about Texas... most of the knowledge workers are NOT from Texas, even in the oilpatch. The modern Oil & Gas industry is very high tech. At least half of us immigrated to Texas for money and jobs. Texas does a pretty bad job of educating its native sons and daughters when you get right down to it. So the stakes are pretty high if the State can't retain the non-native workers and families. It's not like there's a rich creamy nougat center of native Texan STEM graduate students deep in the heart of Texas.
My Alma Mater, the University of Texas at Dallas, would beg to differ. They specialize in STEM majors and are one of the largest Computer Science departments in the nation. Compared to all US colleges that offer Computer Science majors, they rank 5th in the area of software engineering, 11th in artificial intelligence, and 6th in real-time systems. And only 7% come from out of state so most came from the Texas school system.
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