BYND

A place to talk about speculative investing ideas for the optional Variable Portfolio

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anato
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Re: BYND

Post by anato » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:56 pm

A couple of years back I spent an interesting night at a dinner party listening to a micro-biology researcher who'd been studying gut bacteria for years (first time I heard about poop transplant), and that turns out to be pretty much as important as what you eat to influence how much fat you store, by working on this or that nutrient and help your body metabolize it.
So there are people who can eat bacon&eggs 5 times a day and be as lean as a stick, and people who get overweight just by looking at a beer.

The poop transplant was particularly interesting: lean people who got poop from fat donors started putting up weight, keeping the same diet, and viceversa. He then went wild talking about future applications in which they could analyze a stool sample and come out with a personalized diet for anybody.

So that's another big argument for just finding whichever diet works for you (or your gut bacteria), with enough of all nutrients, and just be happy with it :)
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm

anato wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:56 pm
A couple of years back I spent an interesting night at a dinner party listening to a micro-biology researcher who'd been studying gut bacteria for years (first time I heard about poop transplant), and that turns out to be pretty much as important as what you eat to influence how much fat you store, by working on this or that nutrient and help your body metabolize it.
So there are people who can eat bacon&eggs 5 times a day and be as lean as a stick, and people who get overweight just by looking at a beer.

The poop transplant was particularly interesting: lean people who got poop from fat donors started putting up weight, keeping the same diet, and viceversa. He then went wild talking about future applications in which they could analyze a stool sample and come out with a personalized diet for anybody.

So that's another big argument for just finding whichever diet works for you (or your gut bacteria), with enough of all nutrients, and just be happy with it :)
There is indeed a lot interesting in that as well. The effects of antibiotics on gut health particularly. People don't realize that your gut bacteria manufacture a lot of the hormones that regulate your body. So yeah, if those get out of whack all kinds of nasty side effects can happen that effect every system in the body. Most people don't need to go to the extreme of a transplant though, simply eating more vegetables (veggies are a "pre-biotic") and not taking antibiotics unless it's absolutely necessary is good enough for most people. Aside from that, eating some fermented foods like yogurt, sauerkraut, bubbies pickles, etc can definitely help as well. I'm not so sure I would recommend the over the counter lab created probiotics though. They are way over priced and not as strong as healthier natural bacteria in fermented foods. 2 tbsp of home fermented sauerkraut which costs 10 cents contain more probiotics than an entire 30 day supply bottle of even the most potent probiotic blends out there that can cost anywhere from $30-100. So there's no need to get crazy here either. Just simply eat more veggies, occasionally eat some fermented foods, and avoid antibiotics unless you have an actual infection that warrants them.
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Re: BYND

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:43 pm

pmward wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Aside from that, eating some fermented foods like yogurt, sauerkraut, bubbies pickles, etc can definitely help as well.
+1 on Bubbies sauerkraut and pickles. If the only sauerkraut you've had is the pasteurized, non-refrigerated stuff found on grocery store shelves, you're missing out. It's not cheap considering it's just cabbage, water and salt but it sure is tasty. I used to love their bread & butter pickles too but my local store no longer sells them.
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:33 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:43 pm
pmward wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Aside from that, eating some fermented foods like yogurt, sauerkraut, bubbies pickles, etc can definitely help as well.
+1 on Bubbies sauerkraut and pickles. If the only sauerkraut you've had is the pasteurized, non-refrigerated stuff found on grocery store shelves, you're missing out. It's not cheap considering it's just cabbage, water and salt but it sure is tasty. I used to love their bread & butter pickles too but my local store no longer sells them.
Yes I'm polish so I grew up with my grandma, who lived on a farm, always making home fermented sauerkraut and pickles with freshly picked vegetables. It was a staple in her house and I loved it so every time I would go visit she would send me home with jars of the stuff. So I was spoiled growing up and as such I've never liked the grocery store stuff. All it is is cabbage or cucumbers in vinegar. It's a completely different thing. Bubbies, while still not as good as my grandma's, do pass the pollack test, haha.
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:27 am

I love sauerkraut as well. Polish grandmother, but she’s not the source.

Short squeeze - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/beyond-m ... 27573.html
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Re: BYND

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:05 pm

For people who are thinking meatless is the right choice, from market-ticker.org:
------------------------------------------
You gotta be kidding me.

Beyond Meat is, basically, pea protein (ok) and both coconut and canola oils.

Let's start with the pea protein. It's a complete protein (meaning all nine essential amino acids are in it) however one is deficient -- present, but very low (methionine.) Therefore it should not be your only protein source; that imbalance can be significant over time. If you're attempting to use this product as a meat replacement and otherwise eschew meat, that could be very bad news. If it's coupled with other meat sources, not so much, but then why use this garbage at all? Ok, enough with the pea protein since in general it's mostly-ok.

Canola oil, on the other hand, while not nearly as nasty as corn oil is still a vegetable oil product. The primary concern for all vegetable oils is that they are full of PUFA -- polyunsaturated fatty acids. There are two primary ones; Omega-3 and Omega-6.

Omega 3 is generally good and 6 bad. However, absolute quantity matters. Omega 6 tends to be very high in western diets, and it's implicated in inflammation and other systemic problems -- including metabolic disease (e.g. diabetes and related issues.) Never mind that the Omega 3 from plant sources -- including canola -- is almost-always worthless as it's ALA, which is nearly-impossible for the body to convert into DHA and EPA. The latter two are beneficial in your diet but are not found in vegetable sources; the former is not harmful but also not beneficial. So you get the Omega 6 without the benefit of the Omega 3. Meh.

As I have said repeatedly the amount of PUFAs you should ingest "neat", that is, not from consumption of actual raw vegetable sources, is zero.

Coconut oil is of course from a nut, not a vegetable. It has a lot of saturated fat in it, but you won't find me on the bandwagon that says that's bad. The evidence says the opposite. The bigger problem with all vegetable and nut oils is that they get materially worse when heated, and of course nobody heats the meat in a burger say, on a grill -- right?

Then there's "yeast extract"; the better name for this is MSG, but we don't want to call it that. Why not? Because plenty of people avoid MSG. I'm not on that particular bandwagon but some are, and guess what -- it's in there.

Then there's carrageenan. I'm not sold on the science here, but this is again one of those why **** with that sort of ingredient. It's used as a thickener and preservative and is widely found in processed foods. The problem? It's linked to all sorts of intestinal issues, some of them very nasty (like colon cancer!)

The issue is that when the substance (which is found in red seaweed) is processed with acids it degrades and the degraded form is a known problem. In fact the degraded form cannot be used in foods for this reason. Guess what's in your stomach? Uh huh -- powerful acids. While this stuff has been used as a food additive for a long time so have hydrogenated vegetable oils and we know what the science says on that after decades of lying about the "health benefits" of such oils.

Want to eat a chemistry set? Be my guest.

Hard pass here; I'll take the cow thank you very little.
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:38 pm

(Corto)Want to eat a chemistry set?
Nah, just want to hold the stock, though I do partake
now and then to give the cows a break.
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Re: BYND

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:17 am

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Re: BYND

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:38 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:17 am
More on Keto:

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... rformance/
I saw that, what a dumb fucking idea. ::)

SOCOM's science and technology director isn't even right about it.
The diet works to deprive the body of glucose needed for energy and forces it to burn stored fats instead.
Not exactly. You burn the fat you eat. If you don't eat enough, THEN you burn bodyfat. The same thing happens when you don't eat enough of a high carb diet too; people have been losing fat eating oatmeal and rice since forever.
For the keto nutritional plan to be successful, it has to be followed strictly, and that includes after-hours and weekends. Even a service member on leave would possibly face a restricted diet because it simply takes too long for the body to readjust and function in the ketosis stage after a weekend of dietary backsliding and binging on pizza, burritos, and beers.
No it doesn't. She's literally describing the Anabolic Diet, one of several cyclical ketogenic diets that bodybuilders have used for decades to lose fat. Testing positive for ketones is irrelevant to anything except being able to say "I'm in ketosis." In addition, the longer you do a keto diet, the quicker you get back into ketosis (you test positive for ketones quicker). But again, testing positive on a keto strip doesn't mean anything meaningful, unless you're epileptic, so who cares.
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Re: BYND

Post by sophie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:26 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:00 am
My argument is with the 50 years of demonizing certain foods (sat fat, eggs, meat) and pushing low fat, higher in sugar and carb substitutes. I think (maybe??) we can all agree that was a mistake that has had decades-long ramifications for the health of people in this country.

Can we agree that too much sugar is bad? Forces the overproduction of insulin which makes your body want to store it as fat? And that any carb consumed eventually becomes sugar in the body? Higher carb consumption by typical sedentary Americans leads to more diabetes?

If you can agree with this, the issues I have is how on earth can this clip I show below be happening? There is a disconnect somewhere and I don't know if it is malicious or ill-informed or what.

https://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php ... diabetics/

(clip deleted - examples of hospital diabetic diets with 50-75mg carbohydrates per day including a lot of simple sugars.)
The diabetic diet examples you posted strike me as insane too!! My uncle recently went into the hospital for reasons unrelated to his diabetes, and we could not figure out why his blood glucose levels, normally perfectly stable at home, were suddenly in the 300s. Guess I now know why. I am also amazed that dietary science has lagged current research so badly, remaining focused on low fat with no real concern about sugar apart from the empty calories issue.

Agree with what you state above except for the bolded statement. It matters a lot if there is fiber present along with the carbohydrates. White rice, fruit juice, white bread, and breakfast cereals are metabolized pretty much exactly like sugar. Brown rice. whole fruits and vegetables, and high fiber breads I'd expect to metabolize slowly enough that the calories can be used to power the Kreb cycle or be stored as glycogen - assuming you don't eat a huge amount of them.

I know quite a few people in my medical field who have tried keto for weight loss, and it really does work but you have to put a lot of effort into calculating daily carbohydrates. I'm thinking of trying it for a few months myself to knock off a few unwanted pounds, but I would definitely not want to eat that way consistently. For me anyway the diet doesn't include enough fiber so a supplement is needed, and that's not optimal from my POV.

Fiber, "prebiotics", and the gut microbiome are an interesting new area that also will need to be integrated into dietary recommendations eventually.
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:38 am

You all keep faking me out. I keep getting notifications for this thread, thinking someone has something to say about BYND. Grrr
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:05 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:56 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:38 am
You all keep faking me out. I keep getting notifications for this thread, thinking someone has something to say about BYND. Grrr
Here you go: I had my second round of the Bburgers last weekend, and although good, I'm definitely sticking to Aldi's organic grass-fed beef burgers. From freezer to grill without thawing, cooks in minutes and delicious. Or their packaged 93/7 ground turkey also makes a tasty burger.
Good to know, and I think we have an Aldi's somewhere around here, but it's privately owned! 😩 Some German family. Like Trader Joe's.
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Re: BYND

Post by sophie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:01 pm
I've been trying to drop 5 lbs from my middle for months. South Beach Diet, etc work for week, but too hard to stick to and the weight loss is temporary. The solution I found is playing pickleball for 2-3 hours, 4-5 days a week. I have always exercised daily, but not for that many hours. I'm sure long distance jogging would do the same. Semi-retirement is awesome!
Retirement as a weight loss technique? Sounds great!

Sorry about your derailed thread dualstow!
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:10 am

I’ll live. O0
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Re: BYND

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:18 pm

ochotona wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:07 pm
Argentines think chicken is not meat
I may consider moving there... at least for Lent.
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Re: BYND

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:23 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:01 pm
sophie wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:26 am
I know quite a few people in my medical field who have tried keto for weight loss, and it really does work but you have to put a lot of effort into calculating daily carbohydrates. I'm thinking of trying it for a few months myself to knock off a few unwanted pounds, but I would definitely not want to eat that way consistently. For me anyway the diet doesn't include enough fiber so a supplement is needed, and that's not optimal from my POV.
I've been trying to drop 5 lbs from my middle for months. South Beach Diet, etc work for week, but too hard to stick to and the weight loss is temporary. The solution I found is playing pickleball for 2-3 hours, 4-5 days a week. I have always exercised daily, but not for that many hours. I'm sure long distance jogging would do the same. Semi-retirement is awesome!
Very cool. I'm a pickleball guy also. Been playing for 5 years or so. Fantastic game/sport for people of all ages and athletic abilities. Takes about 10 minutes to learn, but I've come to realize that I will never master it, so there's always more to learn.
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Re: BYND

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:14 pm

One guy, who I play pickleball with, played #2 on a state university tennis team, then played some low-level pro tennis, and then many years of 5.5 level tennis. He pretty much plays only pickleball now. He's always telling me how much nicer pickleball people are than many tennis people.

I started playing pickleball tournaments a couple years ago, which is a lot of fun if you like competition. I have a three-day tournament later this week. It's going to be a pickleball-palooza, probably play tournament matches all day and then friendly games late into the night. I'm so blessed to have a loving wife who lets me go off on these outings once in a while with nary a complaint.
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:11 am

I'm out. Sold my shares a few minutes ago.

I am very curious about how the earnings report will go tonight but now, as with pickleball, I am just a spectator.
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Re: BYND

Post by boglerdude » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:32 pm

Sorry forgot to post this earlier

3 hours remaining, on the Left Coast: Free Beyond Burgers at Carls Jr, Thursday 8/15: https://www.reddit.com/r/Albuquerque/co ... mous_star/
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Re: BYND

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:15 am

What, they couldn't sell 'em all? ;D
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Re: BYND

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:51 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:43 pm
Finally found Beyond Burgers at the grocery today, and grilled a couple up for the GF and myself. They were delicious, albeit pricey at $12/lb.
An item I'd never prior been aware of. And, in reading prior posts up until now I was getting interested. But definitely NOT at that price!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: BYND

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:55 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:00 am
So if meat production is ruining the planet, and farming is ruining the planet, what is the solution (besides the obvious population control, which isn't happening any time soon in third world areas) ?
There is a negative correlation between increasing income and family size. With the rate of increasing incomes through out the world, total population will eventually plateau and will not continue to increase at historical rates (which I believe is already on a continual decline in the rate of increases).

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: BYND

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:57 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:43 am
Tortoise wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:11 pm
Well, for what it’s worth, I was practically raised on soy-based meat substitutes (for religious reasons), yet a blood test a few years ago indicated my testosterone level was actually above average.

Sample size of one. 8)
As an aside, testosterone levels and test results can fluctuate quite a bit. You'd probably need a series of tests over a period of time to establish a range. But obviously not worthwhile unless there are issues.
When I brought up the testosterone issue with my doctor he replied that there are no established agreed upon standards for good or bad testosterone levels. Agree? Disagree?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: BYND

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:58 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 am
[there is nothing wrong with eating bread or pasta. They are perfectly healthy foods.
I think that is the one point I'd dispute. If your body can handle it in moderation, sure. If you are a type 2 diabetic and cut carbs out, as far as everything I have read and researched, your blood sugar will be fine. It's only when you add carbs that it becomes an issue. Does that make them 100% bad, no. But moderating them has benefits.

In any event, it should be abundantly clear that something is wrong with either the type or quantity of food when you look at typical Americans and their body size over the past 30 years.
Your last paragraph IS the truth!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: BYND

Post by vnatale » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:58 pm
pmward wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:31 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:38 pm
pmward wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 am
The law of thermodynamics cannot be manipulated, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is energy in vs energy out (i.e. calories and exercise).
Similarly, the your body decides whether to burn or store calories depending on what its target weight is. Some foods (carbs) make your body want to store more. Other foods make it want to store less. For weight purposes anyway, we should be finding out ways to tell our bodies not to want to store as much, and the best way to do that seems to be limiting intake of carbohydrates.
Do you have a scholarly source for this claim? If you look in the actual research you will find this all to be false. Foods do not store more or less aside from their caloric value. If anything, fats store more than carbs because fats can be stored as is. The chemistry involved in turning a carb into a lipid to be stored burns quite a bit of the calories. It's a super inefficient process. Fats are not better than carbs. Even with what I wrote above, carbs are not better than fats. It's all relative to the diet as a whole, the individuals metabolism, the total calories consumed, and the total calories burned.
Have you read http://garytaubes.com/works/books/good- ... -calories/

and his follow-on book Why We Get Fat? I did a long time ago, cannot quote anything directly, sorry.

There is quite a lot of science that (I'm simplifying here) would show if you put two people in a room for a month and fed one 5000 calories a day from carbs, and one 5000 a day from fats and protein that at the end of the month there will be a significant difference in health and weight between the two.

I understand this is a religious argument for a lot of people, and I have my own views that many may not agree with. You can search on any of low fat/high fat/lo carb/high carb diets and will find adherents to all styles.

--Saturated fat is fine
--Cholesterol is not to be worried about
--I will never take a statin
--I limit carbs where I can
--The standard American diet is built on BS
Regarding your last sentence....could I entice you into agreeing with my statement that a large portion of the American diet is based upon our huge food industry getting our beloved representatives to pass laws (and, doing things like creating a USDA food pyramid) which is in their financial interests and NOT our health interests?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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