BYND

A place to talk about speculative investing ideas for the optional Variable Portfolio

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Xan
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Re: BYND

Post by Xan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:06 pm

pmward wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:57 pm
body fat change is a derivative of whether or not there is a net surplus or deficit of calories.
You're begging the question again. Is body fat change a DERIVATIVE of there being a surplus of calories, or is there a surplus of calories (which then get burned during daily activity) depending whether the body already has enough calories to reach its target weight?

Would you say that your body temperature is a derivative of whether or not you've absorbed more heat than you've put out over the course of the day?
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:19 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:06 pm
pmward wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:57 pm
body fat change is a derivative of whether or not there is a net surplus or deficit of calories.
You're begging the question again. Is body fat change a DERIVATIVE of there being a surplus of calories, or is there a surplus of calories (which then get burned during daily activity) depending whether the body already has enough calories to reach its target weight?

Would you say that your body temperature is a derivative of whether or not you've absorbed more heat than you've put out over the course of the day?
You're alluding to metabolism, and yes metabolism does have an obvious part to play. Some people's bodies will burn extra calories through thermogenesis and other metabolic functions better than others. Your body burns calories to generate body heat in thermogenesis. So if you "absorb more heat" by eating more calories than your body uses then your body will store those calories as fat. At the end of the day the calories are still being burned in these metabolic processes so it doesn't change the equation any. And if you weight the same person every day, and measure everything they eat, and compare the results you can find a good ballpark of what their maintenance calories are and then tailor a diet so that they lose weight based on that number. Obviously, human beings are a living organism and we are not static, things are always changing so yesterdays metabolism is not todays metabolism; activity levels change, people in a surplus tend to fidget more than people in a deficit (which burns calories), immune system changes amounts burned based on how active it needs to be, etc, etc so it's very complex. But at the end of the day, the amount of calories consumed minus the amount of calories burned (regardless how those calories are burned) equals the calories stored.
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Re: BYND

Post by pugchief » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:19 pm

I think we have discussed this topic before. I think everyone's body is different and perhaps responds better to certain types of food. But I tend to agree with pmward here, and nutrition used to be my hobby. Corto, you have met me IRL and know that I am not overweight. I eat tons of carbs, mostly whole grains, but plenty of refined stuff, too. As long as I maintain my activity level and don't consume too many total calories, it doesn't seem to matter*. If I cut out carbs, I feel like crap.


*The exception seems to be craft beer. It definitely makes my midsection grow, so I only allow myself an occasional treat of IPA.
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:29 pm

pugchief wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:19 pm
I think we have discussed this topic before. I think everyone's body is different and perhaps responds better to certain types of food. But I tend to agree with pmward here, and nutrition used to be my hobby. Corto, you have met me IRL and know that I am not overweight. I eat tons of carbs, mostly whole grains, but plenty of refined stuff, too. As long as I maintain my activity level and don't consume too many total calories, it doesn't seem to matter*. If I cut out carbs, I feel like crap.


*The exception seems to be craft beer. It definitely makes my midsection grow, so I only allow myself an occasional treat of IPA.
Yeah, I'm the same. I eat a healthy balanced diet with a decent amount of carbs and am on the leaner side. I also "feel like crap" if I eat too little carbs, but I live a very active lifestyle and that probably has a lot to do with it. Carbs = life when you're active, haha. I've also lost weight purposefully before on a high carb diet just to prove it could be done in a debate with a friend, haha. But I do agree that different people "feel better" when they eat more or less of certain foods. And that's cool. Like I said above, I have nothing against the keto diet if it fits someones lifestyle. I only have something against the people who say it's superior to other diet solutions from a weight loss perspective. If someone feels better when they eat low carb, or if that fits their lifestyle or palate, or if they just generally can comply with the diet better than other solutions: have at it, imo. I'm all for anything that works for someone.

The problem comes in where a lot of people these days think the only way to lose weight is to eat low or no carb. Then they try, feel like crap, relapse, and repeat that process over and over getting nowhere in the process. Not to mention the mental guilt and shame that it breeds if someone fails to comply with their carb restrictions can cause some unhealthy mental side effects. This especially considering that when someone has not eaten carbs in awhile their muscles are depleted of glycogen. When they binge on carbs they will have a spike on the scale the next day because of extra glycogen storage in the muscles. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, glycogen is a good thing, but it sure feels punishing for the person at the time to see the scale go up 1-2lb overnight like that after "failing". Whereas, if they ate a different calorie equated diet that they could comply with they would have actually made real progress. I would argue the mental game is the most important variable in dieting and fitness. As fun as it is to debate these things, they are all secondary to that.
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Re: BYND

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:30 pm

I'm in the "find what works for you" camp. You need to eat sufficient protein, essential fatty acids, and vitamins/minerals, but outside of that you can make up the rest of your food however you want.
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Re: BYND

Post by boglerdude » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:33 am

> But at the end of the day, the amount of calories consumed minus the amount of calories burned (regardless how those calories are burned) equals the calories stored.

With some foods you excrete more calories. I try to eat mostly fiber and protein
https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011 ... -excretion

More on topic, Meatless Future or Vegan Delusions? The Beyond Meat Valuation
http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/201 ... sions.html
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Re: BYND

Post by dualstow » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:21 am

We knew this was coming as it’s been in the earliest BYND articles, but Tyson Foods is introducing its own meatless meat now.

They used to own a stake in either Impossible or Beyond, and sold it when they decided to develop their own product.

Tastes like chicken!
don’t the b-heads know that Pyrex just isn’t made by Corning anymore?
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Re: BYND

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:00 am

I think I was mentally going down a different track. I agree, eat what makes you feel good and doesn't metabolically screw you up or make you go to an unhealthy weight. I do like my carbs, but there's no doubt once I've gone through the 3-5 days of sluggishness starting one of my lo-carb attempts, I always have felt better from that point on. And as a byproduct, I have lost weight. But like a drug, I always get tempted off lo-carb.

My argument is with the 50 years of demonizing certain foods (sat fat, eggs, meat) and pushing low fat, higher in sugar and carb substitutes. I think (maybe??) we can all agree that was a mistake that has had decades-long ramifications for the health of people in this country.

Can we agree that too much sugar is bad? Forces the overproduction of insulin which makes your body want to store it as fat? And that any carb consumed eventually becomes sugar in the body? Higher carb consumption by typical sedentary Americans leads to more diabetes?

If you can agree with this, the issues I have is how on earth can this clip I show below be happening? There is a disconnect somewhere and I don't know if it is malicious or ill-informed or what.

https://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php ... diabetics/

A clip:

Image
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:44 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:00 am
I think I was mentally going down a different track. I agree, eat what makes you feel good and doesn't metabolically screw you up or make you go to an unhealthy weight. I do like my carbs, but there's no doubt once I've gone through the 3-5 days of sluggishness starting one of my lo-carb attempts, I always have felt better from that point on. And as a byproduct, I have lost weight. But like a drug, I always get tempted off lo-carb.

My argument is with the 50 years of demonizing certain foods (sat fat, eggs, meat) and pushing low fat, higher in sugar and carb substitutes. I think (maybe??) we can all agree that was a mistake that has had decades-long ramifications for the health of people in this country.

Can we agree that too much sugar is bad? Forces the overproduction of insulin which makes your body want to store it as fat? And that any carb consumed eventually becomes sugar in the body? Higher carb consumption by typical sedentary Americans leads to more diabetes?

If you can agree with this, the issues I have is how on earth can this clip I show below be happening? There is a disconnect somewhere and I don't know if it is malicious or ill-informed or what.
Yes I do mostly agree with all the above. I could nitpick a couple things from a technical aspect (like the storing fat thing, as even if the body stores energy as fat temporarily it still gets burned through activity and metabolic processes so the rule of calories in - calories out = net storage at the end of the day still applies) but on the whole I agree with the general sentiment. The American diet is high calorie, high fat (especially saturated fats), high simple sugar, lots of liquid calories, low micro nutritional content, low fiber, low variation, lots of processed foods, lots of man made chemicals, lots of booze, etc. There's a whole lot of room for improvement for the average American. I am definitely in support of anything that gets someone to make dietary improvements. Joining the keto cult may provide the motivation for some to improve their diet, or at least put some conscious thought into what they are putting in their body, and that's definitely a very good thing. So while it's not my personal diet of choice, and when I help family or friends out with diet plans I don't recommend keto to them unless they are already gung ho about it, I think it does have a place. I just take issue with some of the misinformation that bloggers, businesses, and the media put out about it in the name of generating revenue.
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Re: BYND

Post by anato » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:56 pm

A couple of years back I spent an interesting night at a dinner party listening to a micro-biology researcher who'd been studying gut bacteria for years (first time I heard about poop transplant), and that turns out to be pretty much as important as what you eat to influence how much fat you store, by working on this or that nutrient and help your body metabolize it.
So there are people who can eat bacon&eggs 5 times a day and be as lean as a stick, and people who get overweight just by looking at a beer.

The poop transplant was particularly interesting: lean people who got poop from fat donors started putting up weight, keeping the same diet, and viceversa. He then went wild talking about future applications in which they could analyze a stool sample and come out with a personalized diet for anybody.

So that's another big argument for just finding whichever diet works for you (or your gut bacteria), with enough of all nutrients, and just be happy with it :)
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Re: BYND

Post by pmward » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm

anato wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:56 pm
A couple of years back I spent an interesting night at a dinner party listening to a micro-biology researcher who'd been studying gut bacteria for years (first time I heard about poop transplant), and that turns out to be pretty much as important as what you eat to influence how much fat you store, by working on this or that nutrient and help your body metabolize it.
So there are people who can eat bacon&eggs 5 times a day and be as lean as a stick, and people who get overweight just by looking at a beer.

The poop transplant was particularly interesting: lean people who got poop from fat donors started putting up weight, keeping the same diet, and viceversa. He then went wild talking about future applications in which they could analyze a stool sample and come out with a personalized diet for anybody.

So that's another big argument for just finding whichever diet works for you (or your gut bacteria), with enough of all nutrients, and just be happy with it :)
There is indeed a lot interesting in that as well. The effects of antibiotics on gut health particularly. People don't realize that your gut bacteria manufacture a lot of the hormones that regulate your body. So yeah, if those get out of whack all kinds of nasty side effects can happen that effect every system in the body. Most people don't need to go to the extreme of a transplant though, simply eating more vegetables (veggies are a "pre-biotic") and not taking antibiotics unless it's absolutely necessary is good enough for most people. Aside from that, eating some fermented foods like yogurt, sauerkraut, bubbies pickles, etc can definitely help as well. I'm not so sure I would recommend the over the counter lab created probiotics though. They are way over priced and not as strong as healthier natural bacteria in fermented foods. 2 tbsp of home fermented sauerkraut which costs 10 cents contain more probiotics than an entire 30 day supply bottle of even the most potent probiotic blends out there that can cost anywhere from $30-100. So there's no need to get crazy here either. Just simply eat more veggies, occasionally eat some fermented foods, and avoid antibiotics unless you have an actual infection that warrants them.
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Re: BYND

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:43 pm

pmward wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:10 pm
Aside from that, eating some fermented foods like yogurt, sauerkraut, bubbies pickles, etc can definitely help as well.
+1 on Bubbies sauerkraut and pickles. If the only sauerkraut you've had is the pasteurized, non-refrigerated stuff found on grocery store shelves, you're missing out. It's not cheap considering it's just cabbage, water and salt but it sure is tasty. I used to love their bread & butter pickles too but my local store no longer sells them.
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