I need a name for this portfolio

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Tyler
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by Tyler » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:47 pm

dualstow wrote: what really gets my attention is how different portfolios react to contributions. Usual disclaimer about data mining, backtesting, yadda yadda, but wow. It often works toward evening the score with wildly different portfolios. And I'm talking about a modest annual contribution, like $8,000 a year over the course of one's career.
Very true.

Imagine you have about $100k saved up and decide you really need to get serious about investing. So you research a dozen different portfolio options and agonize over a few basis points of expense ratios here and maybe even a full percent in average returns there. Well after all that, finding a way to save $8k a year (~$300/paycheck) will juice returns by a full 8% blowing your other efforts out of the water.

People really underrate the saving side of the investing equation.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:01 pm

Dualstow and Tyler,

Thanks so much.

I am one of the lucky people with a pension and 25 years worth of savings. So...

I can set up a portfolio with Fidelity. Thanks to Barrett: T bonds and several others here, I will plunk down $65,000 for the portfolio.

Since I have the pension, I can take chances. I can easily go with 25% in gold (HBPP) or 20% gold (Golden Butterfly).

Heck, this may buck the philosophy but I could splitthe$65,000 three ways and, with cash in the bank, I don' need that "cash" position right now. And yes, this has a bit of heresy.

Finally, I can contribute a little bit each year through 2020.

Thanks for your time.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:05 pm

bedraggled wrote:Since I have the pension, I can take chances. I can easily go with 25% in gold (HBPP) or 20% gold (Golden Butterfly)..
I think either of those is great, something you can really stick with, and the sticking may prove to be more crucial than the final choice of assets. I don't see it so much as taking chances as holding on to your hard-earned money and growing it steadily.

Now, I have a feeling mathjak wants to say something different so I'll just step out of the way... O0
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by mathjak107 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:09 pm

nope not at all . while i don't care for the pp , the gb since the election is in its prime time . i really like the gb for these uncertain times . while i was not happy last year with the gold and long term treasury's (which ended up a decent call) after the sell off after the election it was a good value .

i own TLT and GLD and GLD is my biggest gainer as of today .
Last edited by mathjak107 on Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dualstow
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:10 pm

mathjak107 wrote:nope not at all . while i don't care for the pp , the gb since the election is in its prime time . i really like the gb for these uncertain times .
Are you running a Golden Butterfly, jak?
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by mathjak107 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:12 pm

i have been test running one since the sell off with a substantial amount in it . these are the most uncertain times i ever remember .

the gb acts more like a growth oriented portfolio weighted for the odds markets will still be the lead horses .
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:22 pm

BTW, I turn 62 in April.

With the pension, I can be aggressive. I do like substantial gold in case of a Black Swan. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:33 pm

oh, younger than I thought then.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:36 pm

It' s just 'peachy' being over 60...but there is the pension.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:01 pm

bedraggled wrote:It' s just 'peachy' being over 60...
Sure beats the alternative, as they say.

I don't have a pension, but my wife and I are blessed with zero children, so that helps.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:10 pm

We have two adult offspring. My wife directed them to solid career paths. With there grad school loans paid and some savings they left with "Mom and Dad Savings Bank," I can now think of a portfolio.

Am I am heretic for putting aside the cash portion for now? There is some residual cash after the home sale. Things are cool.

This is a $65,000 start with a little more more in 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Thanks.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:13 pm

Don't you want the cash portion?
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:19 pm

I have some cash that I can call 'in the portfolio.' It is nearby. I want to jump in with both feet to start.

The Fidelity accounts are IRAs, therefore a bit restricted

And I am ok with a 4x25.

Now for your notions, please.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 pm

I have to leave my desk soon.
Go for the 4x25. Both feet, but with cash.
Anybody else?
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:30 pm

I do like the 25% gold portion of the 4x25. The GB at 20% appeals, too. And Fidelity will help with the 30 year T Bonds.

Time to get busy- this week.

Oh, I meant how much $$$ I have to invest in an IRAs. IRAs are a bit restrictive. Just an opinion.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:56 am

Desert wrote:
dualstow wrote: I don't have a pension, but my wife and I are blessed with zero children, so that helps.
;D spit out my afternoon tea on that one...

Child-free living; definitely cheaper.
;)
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by dualstow » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:51 pm

I'd like to construct a portfolio and call it "Thor's Hammer", featuring guaranteed returns (get it?)
Unfortunately, I don't think such a portfolio exists.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by ochotona » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:24 pm

bedraggled wrote:I do like the 25% gold portion of the 4x25. The GB at 20% appeals, too. And Fidelity will help with the 30 year T Bonds.

Time to get busy- this week.

Oh, I meant how much $$$ I have to invest in an IRAs. IRAs are a bit restrictive. Just an opinion.
Kevin, IRAs are more than a bit restrictive. Restrictions come in spades. You need to talk to a CPA or Enrolled Agent before you or at least read and fully understand the IRA rules at IRS.GOV before you put any money into an IRA.

You certainly can't throw $65k into a pair of IRAs in one year.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:14 pm

Ocho,

Good point. To clarify, We are not putting $65,000 in an IRA for 2016 and 2017. We are putting $6,500 sums into two traditional IRA accounts for the these two tax years: that's 2 accounts for 2 tax years @$6,500. The total deposits are $26,000. The total investment amount is approx. $65,000. I will probably add incrementally if there are a couple of downturns in 3 to 6 months. I would like to add more than an incremental amount if stocks sell-off 5-10%

VTI is a nice place to put 25% of thr stash.

Question: to avoid a collectibles tax on gold, while not buying an ETF, is IAU the place to put the gold portion? The postings on Sprott are effectively disuasive.

Thanks
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by ochotona » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:54 pm

bedraggled wrote:
Question: to avoid a collectibles tax on gold, while not buying an ETF, is IAU the place to put the gold portion? The postings on Sprott are effectively disuasive.

Thanks
You owe the collectibles tax on gold ETFs like IAU, GLD, and SGOL, just as if you held the metal itself. IAU is an ETF.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Ocho,

Continued thanks.

So, how can an investor avoid the collectibles tax?

Cheers.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by Jack Jones » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:33 pm

bedraggled wrote:Ocho,

Continued thanks.

So, how can an investor avoid the collectibles tax?

Cheers.
Buy gold with cash and don't tell anyone about it.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:41 pm

bedraggled wrote:Ocho,

Continued thanks.

So, how can an investor avoid the collectibles tax?

Cheers.
You would only pay the collectibles rate (28%) if your income tax bracket was 28% or above.

If your taxable income is less than 28%, you'd owe taxes on the gold's capital gains based on whatever your income tax bracket is. So 10%, 15%, or 25%.

To avoid it completely, you'd need to have no taxable income (staying under the standard deduction and personal exemption).
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by bedraggled » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:47 pm

Jack, Ocho, etc all,

Are there gold funds that avoid the collectibles tax? I believe PHYS is one but that will go to Sprott soon.

Yes, Jack, buying for cash may be the best idea.

SGOL is strongly touted. Should I just disregard the collectibles tax. More thoughts,please. (And I am having trouble spelling "collectible" or does it end "able"? I can't go to dictionary.com on this iPad).

Thanks.
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Re: I need a name for this portfolio

Post by ochotona » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:59 pm

bedraggled wrote:Jack, Ocho, etc all,

Are there gold funds that avoid the collectibles tax? I believe PHYS is one but that will go to Sprott soon.

Yes, Jack, buying for cash may be the best idea.

SGOL is strongly touted. Should I just disregard the collectibles tax. More thoughts,please. (And I am having trouble spelling "collectible" or does it end "able"? I can't go to dictionary.com on this iPad).

Thanks.
You "disregard" Federal taxes at your own legal peril. Everyone makes their own decisions in life, but tax evasion I would never recommend.

Why is SGOL better than IAU or GLD? It's more expensive. Who is "touting" it to you? What's their agenda? Yes, it trades commission free at Schwab. That's nice.

When you backtest the three, IAU comes out best; it has the lowest expense ratio. I don't know anything about PHYS. Any ETF that holds gold bullion will have the same taxation issue.

You can avoid collectibles taxation if you buy gold miners, like the GDX ETF, but GDX is very volatile and sometimes doesn't act the same as gold. They are 85% correlated, not 100%. But you still have capital gains taxes, of course. And dividends are taxed. And you have to be a sly fox to trade GDX.
I have traded GDX and have never lost money on it, knock on wood, but it made me sweat.

Honestly, unless you want to study and work to optimize your taxes, just buy IAU and put it into your IRA, and forget about the stupid collectibles tax. You're going to get yourself into legal problems, and those will cost more than you can imagine. I got audited, and it cost me thousands to clear my name. I was right, but I was out thousands.
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