Futures DAYTRADING

[frugal]

Hello,

which is the best online broker to trade S&P or Nasdaq FUTURES?

Still Interactive brokers?

I would like to find one that one tick variation pays all the expenses...

Please help.

Thank you!

[Pointedstick]

Are you sure doing that will really actually make you happy or enrich you?

[goodasgold]

Well, Frugal, you are free to change your plans and follow any investment plan you like.

But wouldn't time spent in Portugal's casinos be a more pleasant form of "daytrading" than dealing with a broker? In Las Vegas, the casinos even give free drinks to the heavy bettors.

[Kbg]

Interesting cost question on futures and paying for costs with a tick...I've been with IB for years and you can certainly cover your cost of trade if you bought the bid and sold the ask with the two futures you mentioned. But of course if you bought the ask and sold the bid (what normally occurs) you are out the commission and the spread.

[frugal]

Are you sure doing that will really actually make you happy or enrich you?

still wanting to trade for living

easy?

No, but possible.

Well, Frugal, you are free to change your plans and follow any investment plan you like.

But wouldn't time spent in Portugal's casinos be a more pleasant form of "daytrading" than dealing with a broker? In Las Vegas, the casinos even give free drinks to the heavy bettors.

Hi, nobody in the world is daytrading to live and earn money?

In US I think there are plenty of daytraders winning.

Interesting cost question on futures and paying for costs with a tick...I've been with IB for years and you can certainly cover your cost of trade if you bought the bid and sold the ask with the two futures you mentioned. But of course if you bought the ask and sold the bid (what normally occurs) you are out the commission and the spread.

Hello,

so to win we need 2 ticks of difference. That's why scalping is hard.

IB is still the best broker in US?







Thank you all.

[Pointedstick]

Are you sure doing that will really actually make you happy or enrich you?

still wanting to trade for living

Why, out of curiosity?

[frugal]

Are you sure doing that will really actually make you happy or enrich you?

still wanting to trade for living

Why, out of curiosity?

4hours per day work

part time job and enjoy other things in life

Hug

[Pointedstick]

You think successful day-traders work at it only 4 hours a day?

If your goal is more time, I suggest early retirement extreme and a very high savings rate.

[Mark Leavy]

You think successful day-traders work at it only 4 hours a day?

If your goal is more time, I suggest early retirement extreme and a very high savings rate.

You're a good man, PS.

I confess that I am not.

I do enjoy watching a slow motion train wreck, both for the entertainment and for the educational experience.  While sorely tempted to subtly encourage frugal in his quest for the glamour and wealth of a futures daytrader - I just couldn't quite do it.  But, I admit, my altruism did not go so far as to try and talk him off the ledge.  The potential for edutainment is just soo high...

Glad you're here, PS.

[Pointedstick]

Heh, thanks Mark. I wish I could say that I thought it was having an effect...

[dualstow]

I think Medium Tex once said he felt like he was in a Star Trek fan forum with a [never-ending] thread on how to go about asking a girl out.

[frugal]

Hello all,

I still didn't find the edge to win on futures daytrading ES / NQ ... but many traders in your country did.

Maybe you know some professional daytraders.


I am still trying to find the path.


Regards!

[clacy]

Frugal, no one is just going to hand you an edge in day trading (or short term trading).  That just doesn't happen.  I know two people that have made a lot of money trading futures/forex.  One is in his late 30's and trades forex for a living.  I have no idea how much he makes, but it's enough to afford him a very nice lifestyle in an expensive city.  I have no idea what kind of "edge" he has.

The other was a distant relative, who has since passed, but he farmed and traded ag futures and left a large estate, north of $10mm.  Most of the money he made was via trading vs farming.

He was an old timer and didn't day trade or trade electronically.  He farmed in a small town and called or visited in person his broker to place trades.  I guess you could say that his farming experience was his edge.  Unfortunately when I knew him, I was much younger and not interested in trading/investing at the time.

When you get an edge that gives you a great living in 4 hours a day, please let me know how to do it 

[frugal]

Frugal, no one is just going to hand you an edge in day trading (or short term trading).  That just doesn't happen.  I know two people that have made a lot of money trading futures/forex.  One is in his late 30's and trades forex for a living.  I have no idea how much he makes, but it's enough to afford him a very nice lifestyle in an expensive city.  I have no idea what kind of "edge" he has.

The other was a distant relative, who has since passed, but he farmed and traded ag futures and left a large estate, north of $10mm.  Most of the money he made was via trading vs farming.

He was an old timer and didn't day trade or trade electronically.  He farmed in a small town and called or visited in person his broker to place trades.  I guess you could say that his farming experience was his edge.  Unfortunately when I knew him, I was much younger and not interested in trading/investing at the time.

When you get an edge that gives you a great living in 4 hours a day, please let me know how to do it 

thank you for your post

in fact I was searching a technical analysis approach to win over the market

on the beginning I thought TA would help me trading for a living but now I found it extremely difficult.

I don't have any friend living from the market.

[Tyler]

My brother-in-law day trades options for a living.  He's been pretty successful with it, and only recently has stopped trying to convince me to join him.  He would always tell me how easy, hands-off, and low-risk it is (for "smart people like you and me"), up until he came to visit for a few days last year and was freaking out when the market went against him and he lost a very large sum of money.  I never bit because I know I don't have the personality for it.

FWIW, prior to the options trading he was heavy into online poker as a profit-making venture, also believing he had an edge.  I'm convinced that addictive personalities combined with a bit of narcissism are a requirement for both.

So my best advice is to be honest with yourself about your motivations.  And if you do choose to go that route, only use a small amount of segregated VP money and don't get cocky. 

EDIT: I should clarify I really do respect my BILs trading skills and don't mean to belittle his livelihood.  Who am I to argue with his success -- I just don't think it's for me.  I actually share the addictive personality gene, although I'm far too smart and handsome to fall into the narcissism trap. 

[frugal]

yes

I agree that it is so difficult

money managment and build a system are so hard

[Pointedstick]

yes

I agree that it is so difficult

money managment and build a system are so hard

Really? Seems pretty straightforward to me:

1. Work really hard so you're earning a lot
2. Get really good at spending less than you earn so eventually you're saving 70% of your income
3. Invest the difference in the PP
4. Do this for 10 years
5. Achieve financial independence

Alternatively, substitute 50% for 70% and 25 years for 10 years.

[frugal]

yes

I agree that it is so difficult

money managment and build a system are so hard

Really? Seems pretty straightforward to me:

1. Work really hard so you're earning a lot
2. Get really good at spending less than you earn so eventually you're saving 70% of your income
3. Invest the difference in the PP
4. Do this for 10 years
5. Achieve financial independence

Alternatively, substitute 50% for 70% and 25 years for 10 years.

PS,

your words are always very smart.

Some points:

a) With childrens is not easy to save 70% . We, as fathers, want to give them the best things.

b) PP is a great investment but I still like the thinking of trading by the CHART

c) Financial independence is good but we always have to have a part time job

Regards

[Pointedstick]

PS,

your words are always very smart.

Some points:

a) With childrens is not easy to save 70% . We, as fathers, want to give them the best things.

I am a father who saves more than 70% of his income. Kids aren't really all that expensive. And the greatest things you can give them are free: time and love. Time becomes even more abundant once you're financially independent, too.

b) PP is a great investment but I still like the thinking of trading by the CHART

Then I suggest you think of it as an expensive hobby: something you spend money on because it gives you pleasure. And if it doesn't actually give you pleasure, they you shouldn't do it. And like all expensive hobbies, they make it harder for you to achieve financial independence.

c) Financial independence is good but we always have to have a part time job

If you needed a part-time job, you wouldn't be financially independent, would you?

Gotta think outside the box a bit!

[frugal]

Hello PS,

can you post your expenses during a MONTH please.

Regards

[Pointedstick]

Rough average basic monthly expenses:

Food $450
Health insurance + copays $350
Property taxes $100
Home improvement: $100
Air travel $100
Utilities $75
Car expenses: $75
Internet $50
Kid stuff $50
Homeowner's insurance $50
Home supplies and such: $50
Shopping & entertainment $50

[Pointedstick]

Cell phone - Mine is provided by my job, wife's is $10/mo; so small I guess it's included elsewhere.
Clothes - $0: I wear rags and get cheap stuff from used clothes stores or "clothes in bulk" websites when they get too many holes in them.
Gifts - most of that falls under "kid stuff."
Haircut - $0: I do my own with a trimmer, and my wife gets her hair cut professionally infrequently enough that it's easily encompassed by another category
Life insurance - through my employer; negligible. It's like $5 a month or something.
Pet care - included in food. My dog is really healthy and hasn't needed to see a vet in years.

[Pointedstick]

That makes sense.  You guys are seriously frugal.  Every one of your expenses is amazingly low.  I'm guessing you seldom, if ever, go to a restaurant, movie, etc.  You must have married a woman with similar goals, or she would have lost her mind by now! 

Anyway, thanks for sharing the details; it's pretty inspiring.

Yeah, she's the same crazy way as me! We pretty much get all of our entertainment from Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, video games, and board games. We probably go out to a restaurant maybe once a month, but that's mostly because of our two-year-old. One of the many ways in which the expense of a kid reduces other expenses you're no longer able to have!

[Pointedstick]

Tell me about it! I feel like my two-year-old is already eating me out of house and home. The amount of food he can shovel into his pie hole even at his current age is truly astonishing. Costco has been a real help. For example, we now buy eggs in bulk, which saves a ton of money, since my family's daily egg intake is about 2+ per person per day. Basically everything we used to buy one of, we now buy five of, for the nice Costco price of the equivalent of only 3 of them purchased individually.

[Kshartle]

Hello,

which is the best online broker to trade S&P or Nasdaq FUTURES?

Still Interactive brokers?

I would like to find one that one tick variation pays all the expenses...

Please help.

Thank you!

http://yourtradingcoach.com/

Frugal,

I think this is the place to go to learn to be a trader.

There is no trick. You need to learn what moves the markets, what moves the price. You need to see the point on the chart where the probabilities are on your side, the risk is low and the potential reward is high. You must pull the trigger, let go of all fear, admit when you are wrong and get out, recognize when you are right and let it run.

Sounds easy. It probably takes years. It's not a question of intellingence, it's emotional control.

The markets move based on human decision making. Human decision making is not random. The markets are not random. Even the 1 minute charts, when you back away, look like the daily charts, the weekly charts, the monthly charts. You can't tell the difference.

Read the book "Trading in the Zone".

Digest everything you can from this site.

Forget about the Holy Grail. If it exists, no one will show it to you. You must become a trader in my opinion. That is the holy grail.

My goal for 2015 is to become a trader. It's a chance for creative expression, the opportunity to grow as a person as well as secure yourself financially no matter what. It's a chance to free yourself from the whims of the central banks and politicians and make a living anywhere you want.

Maybe it won't turn out to be what I want to do with my life or maybe I will fail but I am certain I'll be better off for trying.