Talmud Portfolio

A place to talk about speculative investing ideas for the optional Variable Portfolio

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Bean
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by Bean » Tue May 06, 2014 10:18 pm

Pointedstick wrote: 1/3 land
1/3 owned business
1/3 permanent portfolio
^ This is what I was thinking and at the end the day will probably be where I settle.  I firmly believe in owning productive land, being an entrepreneur, and the permanent portfolio.  So might as well do all 3.
“Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business and a third let him keep by him in reserve.� ~Talmud
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by hedgehog » Wed May 07, 2014 3:40 am

Bean wrote: “Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business and a third let him keep by him in reserve.”?
Really interesting.

I wonder how the Bible or Quran portfolio looked like.
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WildAboutHarry
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by WildAboutHarry » Wed May 07, 2014 4:56 am

[quote=dualstow]P.S. Watch out for false Talmud statements proliferating on the web, propagated by people like Jeff Rense and white power groups.[/quote]

Examples?
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute.  The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"  James Madison
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by barrett » Wed May 07, 2014 7:55 am

There is attributed to Jesus in the  Bible:
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
That would seem to argue against any kind of asset allocation.
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by Xan » Wed May 07, 2014 9:27 am

barrett wrote: There is attributed to Jesus in the  Bible:
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
That would seem to argue against any kind of asset allocation.
Fortunately the complete context is:
Matthew 19 24-26 wrote:And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
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dualstow
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by dualstow » Wed May 07, 2014 9:45 am

WildAboutHarry wrote:
dualstow wrote:P.S. Watch out for false Talmud statements proliferating on the web, propagated by people like Jeff Rense and white power groups.
Examples?
Oh, that it's ok to lie to/ cheat / kill gentiles. Things like that. You can start at note#99 on the wikipedia Talmud entry, but it's very searchable. You could try stormfront via google, if you dare.
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by clacy » Wed May 07, 2014 3:48 pm

RyeWhiskey wrote: Casual observation: I believe the Talmud Portfolio is to be taken more literally than most assume when they speak about recreating it with ETFs. And actual Talmud Portfolio would be 1/3 in land which produces returns (such as timber, farmland, rentals, etc...), 1/3 in business (which could be stocks but would generally be an actual business which you own), and 1/3 in reserves (which would be cash, gold, or guaranteed fixed-income).

To modify this into 1/3 TSM, 1/3 REITs, 1/3 bonds is to turn it into a 2/3 equity, 1/3 fixed-income portfolio which is a far cry from what was conceived of in the time of the actual scripture. That said, I think any simple and commonsense plan which is employed at low-cost will probably serve the average person best. If you can stick with it then go for it.
I don't necessarily agree with this.  There is no right answer as we are all different and have different skill sets, but actual business ownership is not for everyone.  Not everyone makes a great entrepreneur and for those that aren't capable of successfully running a business, it certainly makes sense to me that it's more beneficial to farm that portion out to those that are (or have the desire, etc).  So for most, IMO stocks represent a better chance of being successful at that part of the Talmud portfolio.

(Keep in mind, I am a business owner/operator, so I have a lot of experience with running a successful business).

Same for the real estate portion.  Not everyone has the desire or skill sets to be a land lord.  I personally have been a land lord and realized that I didn't want to get phone calls in the middle of the night or have to try to "fix" plumbing issues, etc.  Why not let those that are more proficient, or can more easily reduce costs by "scaling up" take care of that part of the portfolio?
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by RyeWhiskey » Wed May 07, 2014 9:48 pm

clacy wrote:
RyeWhiskey wrote: Casual observation: I believe the Talmud Portfolio is to be taken more literally than most assume when they speak about recreating it with ETFs. And actual Talmud Portfolio would be 1/3 in land which produces returns (such as timber, farmland, rentals, etc...), 1/3 in business (which could be stocks but would generally be an actual business which you own), and 1/3 in reserves (which would be cash, gold, or guaranteed fixed-income).

To modify this into 1/3 TSM, 1/3 REITs, 1/3 bonds is to turn it into a 2/3 equity, 1/3 fixed-income portfolio which is a far cry from what was conceived of in the time of the actual scripture. That said, I think any simple and commonsense plan which is employed at low-cost will probably serve the average person best. If you can stick with it then go for it.
I don't necessarily agree with this.  There is no right answer as we are all different and have different skill sets, but actual business ownership is not for everyone.  Not everyone makes a great entrepreneur and for those that aren't capable of successfully running a business, it certainly makes sense to me that it's more beneficial to farm that portion out to those that are (or have the desire, etc).  So for most, IMO stocks represent a better chance of being successful at that part of the Talmud portfolio.

(Keep in mind, I am a business owner/operator, so I have a lot of experience with running a successful business).

Same for the real estate portion.  Not everyone has the desire or skill sets to be a land lord.  I personally have been a land lord and realized that I didn't want to get phone calls in the middle of the night or have to try to "fix" plumbing issues, etc.  Why not let those that are more proficient, or can more easily reduce costs by "scaling up" take care of that part of the portfolio?
I never said I had a problem with people going for a 1/3 equties, 1/3 REITs, 1/3 cash/bond portfolio. In fact, I think that if someone chose this and stuck with it for the duration they'd probably do quite well. My point was simply that the Talmud portfolio, as outlined as briefly as it was when it was recorded, was mostly likely not referring to such a setup and was much more likely to be referencing a 'hard asset' allocation involving actual productive land, a business, and cash reserves.

It is certain that this portfolio is not applicable to many, if not most, people these days. Most don't have the initial capital to purchase land, let alone fund a business venture. And this isn't even to touch on what you were talking about regarding people's disposition and interests. So the portfolio as I perceive it was meant to be is not really feasible and our common interpretation these days would probably involve the three ETF setup.
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by dualstow » Thu May 08, 2014 6:45 am

RyeWhiskey wrote: My point was simply that the Talmud portfolio, as outlined as briefly as it was when it was recorded, was mostly likely not referring to such a setup and was much more likely to be referencing a 'hard asset' allocation involving actual productive land, a business, and cash reserves.
But only because that's all there was back then, right? That's all that existed.
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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WildAboutHarry
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by WildAboutHarry » Fri May 09, 2014 4:34 am

barrett wrote: There is attributed to Jesus in the  Bible:
"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
That would seem to argue against any kind of asset allocation.
There was a Harvard Lampoon parody of Time Magazine many (many) years ago that included a parody article describing (as I recall through the cobwebs of many decades) how the rich had begun hiring people to bludgeon camels so the camels could pass through the eye of a needle :)
It is the settled policy of America, that as peace is better than war, war is better than tribute.  The United States, while they wish for war with no nation, will buy peace with none"  James Madison
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dualstow
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by dualstow » Fri May 09, 2014 1:41 pm

Heh heh. There's always a loophole.
The guy in the latest gold commercials pronounces it “goad.” They couldn’t find someone who pronounces the “L”?
I do identify with Fredo. My brother is the smart one.
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Re: Talmud Portfolio

Post by k9 » Fri May 16, 2014 2:52 am

As for me, that would be :
  • land : rental real estate, farms, etc. directly owned
  • businesses : dividend-producing foreign stocks directly owned
  • reserves : 50% gold, 50% local currency (saving accounts, very short term bonds, actual cash, ...)
That would mean 50% physical 50% financial, but also 50% local 50% foreign.

I'm more and more thinking about implementing such a thing for myself, to overcome what I consider (minor) defaults of the PP for a non-US citizen (mainly, the fact that bonds can't be printed out by the nation to pay national debt here, and the fact that a collapse of my money value doesn't imply an equivalent surge in gold prices).
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