Bitcoin giveaway! :)

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moda0306
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:25 pm

Kshartle wrote:
moda0306 wrote: There is no monopoly.  You just think there is because you're in the U.S. and you feel like you have no options because other parties don't want your bitcoins for payment.
It is monopoly money. It has no real value just like monopoly and they have a monopoly on the printing of it.

And you are forced to accept it as payment of debts here, so there's another monopoly.

BTW- I've never owned a bitcoin and will never own one. :)
The banks can essentially "print money" by showing an income-producing asset and/or credit worthy borrower to back it.  There is no real reserve requirement.

Those deposits can be used as "final means of payment," even though they're not base money.  Further, other things CAN be used as money... most people just would rather not take them as payment.  The only way the government can force the issue is if an issue goes to court, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me to have one standard means of payment in judgments, rather than having someone required to deliver hours of a service that another person doesn't want done from said service provider. 
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kshartle » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:34 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Kshartle wrote:
moda0306 wrote: There is no monopoly.  You just think there is because you're in the U.S. and you feel like you have no options because other parties don't want your bitcoins for payment.
It is monopoly money. It has no real value just like monopoly and they have a monopoly on the printing of it.

And you are forced to accept it as payment of debts here, so there's another monopoly.

BTW- I've never owned a bitcoin and will never own one. :)
The banks can essentially "print money" by showing an income-producing asset and/or credit worthy borrower to back it.  There is no real reserve requirement.

Those deposits can be used as "final means of payment," even though they're not base money.  Further, other things CAN be used as money... most people just would rather not take them as payment.  The only way the government can force the issue is if an issue goes to court, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me to have one standard means of payment in judgments, rather than having someone required to deliver hours of a service that another person doesn't want done from said service provider.
Moda.......you can use gold as money sure....but you must record your purchase as a sale of your gold in dollar terms and record the dollar price you paid for it....even you traded something else for it. That way you can pay your taxes on the gain if you have one.

The same goes for anything else you would use as money here. Nothing else is practical save the USD.

The point is....if you want to operate economically without the fear that you are breaking the law.....the USD is what you will use here. Come on man. Any other option will increase your costs dramatically and serve no purpose.

People don't use the USD because they like it. Why do you think they use the Pound in the UK? Why do they use the Euro in Europe?

What do the banks have to do with anything? Ok, they can print money too. Does that mean the US government doesn't have a monopoly? Ummmm, it gives the banks the right.

This is like saying McDonalds doesn't have a monopoly on the right to the use of the Hamburgler because it has franchisees.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:48 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
moda0306 wrote: If the printed money is being used to spend on "safety hammocks," how is that helping the rich?
It's basically vote-buying, along with divisive social wedge issues. In these ways, the rich and powerful can get poor and disadvantaged people to continue voting for them despite the fact that after their election, they will usually turn around and screw those very people, secure in the knowledge that political ignorance will shield them from most of the blowback and they can engage in further divisiveness and vote buying to regain any lost votes from their plutocratic policies.

I mean, we are talking about the American government here, right?
What do you mean by "screw them?"  SS?  Medicare?  Public education?  Or moreso stuff like wars and fractional-reserve banking?
I could write a whole book on this (oh wait ::) ), but yes, most of those services are indeed screwing poor people. When the government provides ostensibly "free" (not really free) services that are discriminatory and of terrible quality, it not only hurts the people who rely on them but it also acts as a huge disincentive for the market to provide better solutions because they're fighting the massive subsidy of the service being "free." Public education falls right into this category.

Medicare does too and additionally screws people by skewing payment such that doctors have to charge more to non-medicare patients, starting and contributing to the death spiral of rising prices or both care and insurance, which (again) hurts poor people the most.

This is of course to say nothing of the drug war which disproportionately kills and imprisons poor black and hispanic people, and foreign wars which are fought predominately by poor people who are most susceptible to the propaganda they're fed by public schools and most benefited by the meager financial incentives dangled in front of them.
Last edited by Pointedstick on Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:00 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: It's basically vote-buying, along with divisive social wedge issues. In these ways, the rich and powerful can get poor and disadvantaged people to continue voting for them despite the fact that after their election, they will usually turn around and screw those very people, secure in the knowledge that political ignorance will shield them from most of the blowback and they can engage in further divisiveness and vote buying to regain any lost votes from their plutocratic policies.

I mean, we are talking about the American government here, right?
What do you mean by "screw them?"  SS?  Medicare?  Public education?  Or moreso stuff like wars and fractional-reserve banking?
I could write a whole book on this (oh wait ::) ), but yes, most of those services are indeed screwing poor people. When the government provides ostensibly "free" (not really free) services that are discriminatory and of terrible quality, it not only hurts the people who rely on them but it also acts as a huge disincentive for the market to provide better solutions because they're fighting the massive subsidy of the service being "free."

Medicare screws people by skewing payment such that doctors have to charge more to non-medicare patients, starting and contributing to the death spiral of rising prices or both care and insurance, which (again) hurts poor people the most.

This is of course to say nothing of the drug war which disproportionately kills and imprisons poor black and hispanic people, and foreign wars which are fought predominately by poor people who are most susceptible to the propaganda they're fed by public schools and most benefited by the meager financial incentives dangled in front of them.
Well I hope your book has evidence that Medicare makes healthcare more expensive, and that the services such as SS, snap benefits, etc are of "terrible quality" compared to what the market would/does provide.

This is stuff conservatives say all the time but I see no real evidence of it.  SS is a lot more reliable than most annuity salesmen out there, for example.

Most of this is because of informational asymmetry. 

Lastly, propaganda is pushed by schooling in general... by no means is this limited to public schooling.


And further, how can one "buy votes?" I am offered nothing for voting.  It costs me money, as does it most others.  For that money, I get a 1-in-several-million chance at affecting an election to my benefit.  It seems that's a nasty value proposition.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:09 pm

moda0306 wrote: Well I hope your book has evidence that Medicare makes healthcare more expensive, and that the services such as SS, snap benefits, etc are of "terrible quality" compared to what the market would/does provide.

This is stuff conservatives say all the time but I see no real evidence of it.  SS is a lot more reliable than most annuity salesmen out there, for example.

Most of this is because of informational asymmetry.
…which is true of every industry and every person. Information asymmetry is a BS excuse for government programs, IMHO, because, as usual, is assumes that the present condition will continue forever and therefore makes this true by eliminating everyone's incentive to improve. If there's informational asymmetry in the retirement product market, SS is basically giving up on the possibility of people ever being smarter and more informed about the options for their financial futures and better, more comprehensible products to exist, thereby reducing the reasons for it these things to happen.

moda0306 wrote: Lastly, propaganda is pushed by schooling in general... by no means is this limited to public schooling.
Sure. But I hope you'll agree with me that some forms of propaganda are more damaging than others. Being taught to believe that mass murder can be a good thing is probably a worse form of propaganda than being brainwashed into buying new clothes, no?

moda0306 wrote: And further, how can one "buy votes?" I am offered nothing for voting.  It costs me money, as does it most others.  For that money, I get a 1-in-several-million chance at affecting an election to my benefit.  It seems that's a nasty value proposition.
You're looking at it too rationally. Most people don't think this way. They're who I'm talking about.
Simonjester wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
moda0306 wrote: Lastly, propaganda is pushed by schooling in general... by no means is this limited to public schooling.
Sure. But I hope you'll agree with me that some forms of propaganda are more damaging than others. Being taught to believe that mass murder can be a good thing is probably a worse form of propaganda than being brainwashed into buying new clothes, no?
even if the public education system (or any other) were 100% propaganda free, they still FAIL because they have stopped teaching critical thinking. A public that cant think will never know the difference between good information and bad , be able to separate the wheat from the chafe or avoid being manipulated by the emotional arguments over the rational ones, and if you cant do that you fall prey to being easily manipulated in both the political arena and as a consumer of products in the market place..

no matter how much lip service the public education system pays to critical thinking it provides none, at least in the world of private education you have a small few that still do really teach..
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Pointedstick wrote:
moda0306 wrote: Well I hope your book has evidence that Medicare makes healthcare more expensive, and that the services such as SS, snap benefits, etc are of "terrible quality" compared to what the market would/does provide.

This is stuff conservatives say all the time but I see no real evidence of it.  SS is a lot more reliable than most annuity salesmen out there, for example.

Most of this is because of informational asymmetry.
…which is true of every industry and every person. Information asymmetry is a BS excuse for government programs, IMHO, because, as usual, is assumes that the present condition will continue forever and therefore makes this true by eliminating everyone's incentive to improve. If there's informational asymmetry in the retirement product market, SS is basically giving up on the possibility of people ever being smarter and more informed about the options for their financial futures and better, more comprehensible products to exist, thereby reducing the reasons for it these things to happen.

moda0306 wrote: Lastly, propaganda is pushed by schooling in general... by no means is this limited to public schooling.
Sure. But I hope you'll agree with me that some forms of propaganda are more damaging than others. Being taught to believe that mass murder can be a good thing is probably a worse form of propaganda than being brainwashed into buying new clothes, no?

moda0306 wrote: And further, how can one "buy votes?" I am offered nothing for voting.  It costs me money, as does it most others.  For that money, I get a 1-in-several-million chance at affecting an election to my benefit.  It seems that's a nasty value proposition.
You're looking at it too rationally. Most people don't think this way. They're who I'm talking about.
So poor liberals are too stupid to realize their votes are being bought, but wealthy conservatives/libertarians are voting their true conscience?

Maybe our opinions on "what is right" is simply colored by our socioeconomic position, and both rich and poor alike tend to vote in alignment with their best interest, with reasonable understanding that their voting is mostly on principle.


Regarding different forms of propaganda, I'd agree that the extremes you mention are an example of one propaganda being much worse than another.  I'm not sure I ever heard mass-murder being advocated for in the public school I went to, though.  War was obviously discussed, if that's what you mean, but I'd be surprised if all the private schools and home-schooled kids out there, but for a few examples, are teaching that all U.S. involvements in war have been essentially "mass murder."



Informational asymmetry makes economic transactions more difficult in varying degrees.  Especially when it comes to the risk of something uncertain happening (the business owner KNOWS he needs to hire an engineer to work daily on the assembly line, even though it's too complex for him to understand... it's more difficult for him to engage private healthcare with any degree of being able to measure cost/benefit).  Me picking my favorite flavor of ice cream is VERY different than someone picking their favorite insurance policy (filled with hundreds (if not thousands) of different procedures that may-or-may-not be covered)), or someone who just had a stroke picking which surgical procedure he'd like from Med-Ebay.com.

I'm not saying that any time someone is confused by something the government should step in, but the worse it is the more it's going to look like an area that the market is failing to use the profit motive to generate superior service, because the profit motive is too busy motivating the more educated party to trick the other... and maybe government will be able to improve the overall situation for most people.

But of course, any intrusion in medicine is to turn the poor into dependent lemmings and the uber-rich into... even richer... somehow.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:37 pm

I still don't understand how the super-rich benefit from deficits that are just paid to the poor.

Which implies that the super poor are just lemming boobs, the super rich are somehow unfairly scheming the whole system (even though they pay (gasp) the vast majority of the federal income taxes (the only tax that seems to matter when we discuss who's paying them)), and everyone in between is just being steamrolled.

I've got an idea... if being super-rich is unattainable, and the safety hammock is so generous (though it is simultaneously collectively screwing poor people (but not as much as upper-middle class... but not the super rich just the kinda rich  ::))), why not just live off of it?
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kshartle » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:17 pm

moda0306 wrote: I've got an idea... if being super-rich is unattainable, and the safety hammock is so generous (though it is simultaneously collectively screwing poor people (but not as much as upper-middle class... but not the super rich just the kinda rich  ::))), why not just live off of it?
Millions would agree with you. For millions it is the best option unfortunately.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:18 pm

Kshartle wrote:
moda0306 wrote: I've got an idea... if being super-rich is unattainable, and the safety hammock is so generous (though it is simultaneously collectively screwing poor people (but not as much as upper-middle class... but not the super rich just the kinda rich  ::))), why not just live off of it?
Millions would agree with you. For millions it is the best option unfortunately.
Maybe we're missing out.  Let's quit our jobs and jump in the hammock!
"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kshartle » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:09 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Kshartle wrote:
moda0306 wrote: I've got an idea... if being super-rich is unattainable, and the safety hammock is so generous (though it is simultaneously collectively screwing poor people (but not as much as upper-middle class... but not the super rich just the kinda rich  ::))), why not just live off of it?
Millions would agree with you. For millions it is the best option unfortunately.
Maybe we're missing out.  Let's quit our jobs and jump in the hammock!
I'm a subcontractor. My contract ends in Nov. They keep asking me come onboard but I'm actually looking forward to the unemployment and significant tax break next year when I start up again mid-year. I think between unemployment and lower taxes I'd be better off working 6 months on 6 months off.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by moda0306 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:29 pm

Can you collect on unemployment if you're not laid off and aren't actively searching for work?
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kshartle » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:01 pm

moda0306 wrote: Can you collect on unemployment if you're not laid off and aren't actively searching for work?
Yes. I'll be unemployed, but not fired and pretending to look for work. That's the exact criteria.

You don't have to look for work. I was on unemployment when I left the Army 12 years ago. You just click a button online every two weeks saying you looked for work and they send you a check.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by HB Reader » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:51 pm

Well, .... so much for Bitcoin issues. 
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kshartle » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:53 am

HB Reader wrote: Well, .... so much for Bitcoin issues.
Anything new going on with them? Price seems to be bouncing between $600-$700. I saw the alleged creator is denying that he had anything to do with them and that Bitcoin exchange CEO...umm....committed suicide. Any thoughts on any of that?
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by HB Reader » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:25 am

Kshartle wrote:
HB Reader wrote: Well, .... so much for Bitcoin issues.
Anything new going on with them? Price seems to be bouncing between $600-$700. I saw the alleged creator is denying that he had anything to do with them and that Bitcoin exchange CEO...umm....committed suicide. Any thoughts on any of that?
Yeah, the price seems to be bumping along just a little above $600.

I don't think the outing of Satoshi Nakamoto (if Newsweek is indeed correct), the failure of Mt Gox, or the CEO suicide (of which I know next to nothing) will have much longer term impact one way or another on BTC.  I suspect it will eventually either succeed or fail for substantive reasons that are more directly related to its viability.

As I mentioned before, why anyone would have left any large BTC balances at Mt Gox is puzzling.  Some of the primary attractions of BTC are that you can transfer it quickly and easily and store it safely at home.  It was clear many months ago that Mt Gox had problems.

Here is a Washington Post article on BTC from Sunday's edition:   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by dkalder » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:52 pm

The volatility of this "currency" is worse than that of tech stocks ...
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Austen Heller » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:48 pm

Has anyone been spending their bitcoins?  I saw a show last night with Morgan Spurlock, called Inside Man, in which he attempts to live on bitcoins for a while.  It was on Netflix, season 3.

It was surprising how many places are starting to accept bitcoins.  The show got me fired up to use my bitcoins, and maybe even buy some more.  Marc was so generous in giving us a little bit to try it out, thanks again!
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by dualstow » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:19 pm

That really was generous of Marc, especially since he was optimistic about their rise in value.
I haven't spent mine, but I think of this thread every time the topic of bitcoins come up.

And, just least week I was going through an old folder and came upon a printout of my long password for my fraction of a bitcoin.
Feels like the end of the everything rally.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by bitcoininthevp » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:37 pm

The show got me fired up to use my bitcoins, and maybe even buy some more.
Ive routinely gotten 20%+ off purchases on amazon using purse.io. Check it out.

Coinbase has a bitcoin debit card (Visa) that lets you spend your bitcoin pretty much anywhere. You can read more about it here https://blog.coinbase.com/2015/11/20/in ... hift-card/
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by dragoncar » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:22 pm

This is worth like fitty bucks $2k!!! now. Nice giveaway, hopefully you're rolling in so much dough you don't need it back!

Don't lose your wallets, people.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by frugal » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:31 am

bitcoininthevp wrote:
The show got me fired up to use my bitcoins, and maybe even buy some more.
Ive routinely gotten 20%+ off purchases on amazon using purse.io. Check it out.

Coinbase has a bitcoin debit card (Visa) that lets you spend your bitcoin pretty much anywhere. You can read more about it here https://blog.coinbase.com/2015/11/20/in ... hift-card/
hi

the link doesn't work :-(
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by HappyMan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:16 am

Any bitcoins left for a giveaway? Wanna try.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by ochotona » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:44 am

ProShares has filed to offer Short Bitcoin ETF. Not sure of timing. Might be interesting to take the other side of the trade, but it could be like catching lightning in a jar.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 pm

ochotona wrote:ProShares has filed to offer Short Bitcoin ETF. Not sure of timing. Might be interesting to take the other side of the trade, but it could be like catching lightning in a jar.
If it is like the other derivative bitcoin products, they have daily swing limits at 20% or so and no actual bitcoin are involved.

Seems like it is just two guys flipping a coin to see who wins that day.
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Re: Bitcoin giveaway! :)

Post by Kbg » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:15 am

Actually...if you can stand the boredom and stress of sitting in front of a computer screen all day, volatility like Bitcoin is exhibiting right now can be easy money (but it’s not fun money).
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