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A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:13 am
by Kevin K.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:51 pm
by Kriegsspiel
It looks like Ben took down the article. I'm a bit behind on the Animal Spirits podcasts so I don't know if they've talked about it yet, but the ones with the guy from BlockFI are always pretty interesting. The one where they talked about 3 Arrows was cool inside-baseball stuff, I assume he knows about FTX and Binance too.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:47 pm
by boglerdude
well, heres a working article https://marginalrevolution.com/marginal ... h-sbf.html

Tyler's newsletter is good clickbait. I might have to route it to a "later" folder, to get more productive

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:30 pm
by Kevin K.
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:51 pm
It looks like Ben took down the article. I'm a bit behind on the Animal Spirits podcasts so I don't know if they've talked about it yet, but the ones with the guy from BlockFI are always pretty interesting. The one where they talked about 3 Arrows was cool inside-baseball stuff, I assume he knows about FTX and Binance too.
The Ben Carlson article is back up. Well worth the read IMHO.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:07 pm
by Kriegsspiel
The founder of crypto exchange FTX went from being worth $16 billion to being worth $0 (probably less than $0) in the span of a day.
That'll sting a bit.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:14 am
by Desert
He couldn't have a more perfect name, Sam Bankman-Fried.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:43 am
by Kevin K.
Desert wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:14 am
He couldn't have a more perfect name, Sam Bankman-Fried.
True, although Sam Ponzi-Madoff would also have worked. ;D

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:55 am
by joypog
Patrick Boyle and Coffeezilla have both published great explainers on the FTX blowup.

Coffeezilla also calls out financial youtubers that advertised for FTX.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:58 am
by I Shrugged
There are so many things working against crypto that it almost has to fail, at least in this early phase. That's been my approach to it.
If it ever becomes relatively stable and useful, then I'm interested. I have never felt the FOMO need to make money on it on the way up.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:46 am
by Kevin K.
Image

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:20 am
by Jack Jones
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:58 am
There are so many things working against crypto that it almost has to fail, at least in this early phase. That's been my approach to it.
If it ever becomes relatively stable and useful, then I'm interested. I have never felt the FOMO need to make money on it on the way up.
I'm of the opinion that Bitcoin is our only hope at taking power back from the elites in Washington. Control of the money is too much power. Bitcoin is an engineering solution to the political ills of our times. We need more engineers in politics. The world is too complex for the usual sorts of con-men that we elect.

I want to do my part in making this happen. An intransigent minority is all it takes.

Regarding failure, the blocks continue to be mined, so from that perspective seems like business as usual. However, some mining companies will have trouble continuing to operate at this price.
Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.17.56 AM.png
Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.17.56 AM.png (532.82 KiB) Viewed 593 times
The dip in hashrate was when China banned Bitcoin mining.

Interesting, looks like the feds are hodling now:

https://news.bitcoin.com/the-us-governm ... cs-supply/

Regarding Scam Bankrupt-Fraud: he is simply the next in a long line of apes posturing in front of Satoshi's obelisk:
Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.44.33 AM.png
Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.44.33 AM.png (1.65 MiB) Viewed 581 times
I'm sorry to those who lost money with him, but the point of crypto is self-custody, IMO.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:34 pm
by vnatale
Kevin K. wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:46 am
Image


Good one!!!

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm
by I Shrugged
Jack Jones wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:20 am
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:58 am
There are so many things working against crypto that it almost has to fail, at least in this early phase. That's been my approach to it.
If it ever becomes relatively stable and useful, then I'm interested. I have never felt the FOMO need to make money on it on the way up.
I'm of the opinion that Bitcoin is our only hope at taking power back from the elites in Washington. Control of the money is too much power. Bitcoin is an engineering solution to the political ills of our times. We need more engineers in politics. The world is too complex for the usual sorts of con-men that we elect.

I want to do my part in making this happen. An intransigent minority is all it takes.

Regarding failure, the blocks continue to be mined, so from that perspective seems like business as usual. However, some mining companies will have trouble continuing to operate at this price.

Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.17.56 AM.png

The dip in hashrate was when China banned Bitcoin mining.

Interesting, looks like the feds are hodling now:

https://news.bitcoin.com/the-us-governm ... cs-supply/

Regarding Scam Bankrupt-Fraud: he is simply the next in a long line of apes posturing in front of Satoshi's obelisk:

Screen Shot 2022-11-14 at 11.44.33 AM.png

I'm sorry to those who lost money with him, but the point of crypto is self-custody, IMO.

I hope it works.

The electricity usage is a problem.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:18 pm
by Kbg
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm
I'm of the opinion that Bitcoin is our only hope at taking power back from the elites in Washington. Control of the money is too much power. Bitcoin is an engineering solution to the political ills of our times. We need more engineers in politics. The world is too complex for the usual sorts of con-men that we elect.
For the exact reason you mention, not going to happen. Money is power. Controlling it is more power.

Which brings me to the engineer part...I'm not from an engineering background, but I am surrounded by them and manage a bunch (cue Dilbert Manager here :) ). Politics is primarily about understanding and reading large groups of people accurately and the continuum of power which sloshes back and forth between various groups. Assuming you have the requisite observational skill, then you can ride and shape these forces. There are exceptions of course, but generally technical people aren't that good at these skills as they are a bit counter to their training and background.

Broad brush paint stroke, I know...but in the modern world generally it is legal types and business people who dominate the field because their background and training lend them to the applicable skill set for politics. If you can't read people well you will not do well in senior positions of any kind.

Update...edited the quote wrong. Looks like it was from Jack.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:12 pm
by vnatale
From a daily newsletter on baseball (and other things) that I daily read ...

FTXsplosion



Last week I had an item about the crypto exchange FTX � which paid Majorr League Baseball a bunch of money to put its logo on umpire jerseys � going belly up. Things really got out of hhand over the weekend, though.

On Friday the company’s CEO and founder Sam Bankman-Fried resigned and FTX filed for bankruptcy. On Saturday, the company revealed it was investigating “unauthorized transactions” worth hundreds of millions of dollars and that it had moved all of its funds into offline storage. There were reports that Bankman-Fried “accidentally” transferred money into accounts he controlled just before the shit hit the fan and reports that he was searching for countries that don’t have extradition treaties with the United States. I’d say that the fact that he based his company in the Bahamas should’ve tipped someone off that the operation wasn’t on the square to begin with but people tend not to pay attention to things that are making a lot of people rich until the moment after they stop making people rich.

People in the crypto/Silicon Valley/business press world were super impressed with Bankman-Fried before all of this went sideways. He talked a big game about altruism and how the crypto world should be better-regulated and everything. It seems pretty obvious now that that was all a screen for what appears to have been a Ponzi scheme. Anyone who has read “The Big Con” or watched “The Sting” knows, however, that the more on-the-level a scammer appears and the more he acts as though he doesn’t want easy money, the more successful a scammer he can be. The real game is not taking money from people. It’s about creating a situation in which people not only want to give you their money but they basically demand that you take it. That’s what seemed to happen with FTX. I tip my fedora to the guy for making it work as long as he did.

I do have some special disdain for Major League Baseball and other sports properties which took FTX’s money with, apparently, no vetting whatsoever. Baseball had the ump deal. The NBA had FTX naming the Miami Heat’s arena. Before FTX got that deal a porn company wanted to pay for naming rights but the Heat said no because it was too unseemly.

The Sports Industrial Complex cares about nothing but money. Preferably up-front money. Very little else matters.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:29 pm
by Kriegsspiel
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:51 pm
I'm a bit behind on the Animal Spirits podcasts so I don't know if they've talked about it yet, but the ones with the guy from BlockFI are always pretty interesting. The one where they talked about 3 Arrows was cool inside-baseball stuff, I assume he knows about FTX and Binance too.
WSJ wrote:Cryptocurrency lender BlockFi Inc. is preparing a potential bankruptcy filing after halting withdrawals of customer deposits and acknowledging it has “significant exposure” to bankrupt exchange FTX, people familiar with the matter said. link
There you go.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:43 pm
by Kbg
IDK...crypto to me seemed a no-brainer "not a good idea." Little if anything, on close inspection, made sense or was likely to be sustainable.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:29 am
by boglerdude
What are the best ways for those fleeing Ukraine or China to move wealth

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:31 am
by dualstow
Crypto isn’t dead. There’s contagion now, but maybe this will wipe out the sillier coins and shore up bitcoin.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:05 am
by joypog
boglerdude wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:29 am
What are the best ways for those fleeing Ukraine or China to move wealth
1) Stay alive.
2) Stay healthy.

Everything else is tertiary.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:28 pm
by Jack Jones
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm
I hope it works.

The electricity usage is a problem.
The electricity usage is what makes it fair and scarce. How else do you fairly distribute the money over time? Anyone can get paid to do the work to secure the network. It's similar to how gold has been fairly distributed over the centuries, people doing the work to dig it up.

In fact, the electricity usage is a feature. It allows us to monetize energy that is in difficult to reach places.

Re: A history lesson for our crypto trolls

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 pm
by I Shrugged
Jack Jones wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:28 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:00 pm
I hope it works.

The electricity usage is a problem.
The electricity usage is what makes it fair and scarce. How else do you fairly distribute the money over time? Anyone can get paid to do the work to secure the network. It's similar to how gold has been fairly distributed over the centuries, people doing the work to dig it up.

In fact, the electricity usage is a feature. It allows us to monetize energy that is in difficult to reach places.

I get it, but at this point in time, it’s a problem.