I think it’s time to move into crypto

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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:04 pm

vincent_c wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:45 pm
bitcoininthevp wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:14 pm
I dont hold much USD.
So what do you use in instead of the cash portion in your PP?
I dont have a PP at the moment as I own no stocks or treasuries. I have gold and cash positions and a bitcoin position.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:51 am

Like all markets, human psychology is a huge factor in pricing. I would not be surprised if ETH outperforms in the next day, week, year. For example:

- ETH is down against BTC 27% in the last month
- ETH is up against BTC 27% in the last 3 months
- ETH is down against BTC 5% in the last 6 months
- ETH is up against BTC 25% in the last 1 year
- ETH is down against BTC 9% in the last 2 years

But I just dont see the value in ETH so I have not invested:

- There is no supply cap
- There is not even consensus in the ETH community about what the current supply of ETH is currently
- Monetary policy changes often
- It is not immutable money (ETH "leaders" have rolled back the chain for transactions they didn’t "like")
- I dont find value in, or use, any of software on top of ETH
- ETH isnt even cheaper for basic transactions than BTC
- ETH trying to be a "world computer" vs just being money (BTC) causes huge scaling issues which affect decentralization (hint: crypto value proposition is entirely based on decentralization)
- Because ETH is competing on features in an open source software world, cheaper competitors can appear relatively easily, and have

If you want to have some crypto VP or playground, I think you should go for it as a consumption value and not as a production value.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:20 pm

vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:25 am
This is key, investing in any economy using its token/currency to measure performance requires a belief in the long term for that economy. This is why at the same time I am hedging in DOT, ADA, ATOM, and other smart contract protocols.
What smart contracts do you actively use on any of these platforms, other than securing your coins or buying other coins, say?
vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:25 am
What would you say if I suggested that having exposure to ETH provides you with a better risk adjusted way to invest in the Blockchain economy agnostic to whether you believe in ETH versus investing BTC alone.

If you believe in BTC, BTC's value is dependent on the blockchain economy as a whole and vice versa. Don't you agree?
This might be the crux of the disagreement. I dont believe in some "blockchain economy". I believe blockchain has one use case so far: money. And the best version of blockchain money that we have is Bitcoin.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:36 pm

vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:46 pm
If BTC has no use as a collateral asset, then it's usefulness as a store of value is limited.
There is no requirement that bitcoin can only be used on blockchains. Bitcoin is acting as collateral to get USD loans for example (Unchained Capital). It is also used as collateral for trading/exchanges.

Also, to be clear, there are smart contracting capabilities on Bitcoin. Multisignature and Lightning Network are smart contracts on Bitcoin, for example.
vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:46 pm
Either way, you can't deny the existence of a rapidly growing blockchain industry/economy, can you?
Of course other blockchains exist and "something" is happening on them. But I really just see people talking about valuing the required tokens to power the network instead of how much value they are deriving from the network and its capabilities. Because value IS the use case of Bitcoin (money), the same criticism doesn’t really apply to Bitcoin.

Look at coinmarketcap.com from 2013.
Image

Now look at it from 2017.
Image

I was around the space during these times. And there were promises of what those coins would do. There were people like you evangelizing. There were price bubbles in all sort of coins, etc. Now most of them are gone for all intents and purposes.

Now look at https://coinmarketcap.com/ today. A whole new class of maybes, promises, could-bes.

I dont want to state unequivocally that all altcoins will die and there is zero value ever for anyone. But I hope this opens your, and others, eyes to the altcoin world and lure.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:16 pm

It doesn’t seem that you are really listening to my points, tbh.

I've illustrated how in the past there have been coins and evangelists of those coins. And then those coins disappear/go to zero.

You respond by ignoring that and continue evangelizing.

It seems your point comes to liking the idea of some version of a market cap weighted crypto index fund.

You should see how such an investment worked out historically. I believe https://www.shrimpy.io/backtest had something like this, but not anymore. Maybe some other service does.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:48 pm

vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:46 pm
bitcoininthevp wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:16 pm
It doesn’t seem that you are really listening to my points, tbh.
I hear what you're saying but perhaps we're not listening to each other.

I think what you're saying is basically, even if there are coins where the tokenomics reward token holders like equity holders, the entire sector is in a bubble right now so their current price (regardless of indexed or not) is no where near what their fair value should be.
I didn’t say tokenomics, relate it to equity holders, say anything about a sector or a bubble, didn’t state anything about fair value.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by Arthur Boe Nansa » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am

I've been following this site passively with no intention of contributing, but the recent discussions of Bitcoin have given me a particular itch that I couldn't help but scratch. Bitcoininthevp has been a great resource, but there are some things that I feel need to be addressed, so I will do that.

A disclaimer now and one i will add again at the end, to cover all bases: I am not a fan of what BTC has turned into. I will explain what that means briefly in the post, but it shouldn't matter much because this post is about looking at the crypto landscape from a macro perspective. Any project I mention is more to highlight the pros/cons of different use-cases rather than an endorsement or set in stone financial advice. And one more thing- Bitcoininthevp, if you feel anything i've said is unfair, feel free to call me out on it. ;)

Let's dive in:
I've illustrated how in the past there have been coins and evangelists of those coins. And then those coins disappear/go to zero.

This is a great way to keep expectations in check, but a terrible way to assess the merits of a financial asset/use case. When light-bulbs were first being created some overheated, gave little light, weren't reliable etc. Would you say: "Many early revisions weren't good enough, stick to the "original" Electric Arc Lamp"?

Bitcoin (BTC) was and is revolutionary. It will always be considered the first mover and the start of a new technology, but to hold it as the only viable option is short sighted and frankly, just wrong.

For technical reasons way beyond the scope of this post, I do not believe Bitcoin (BTC) is a long term solution. "Digital gold" and "new monetary network" are buzzwords that sound great, but aren't realistic. B-vp is right that most projects are either scams or will die a slow death, but that doesn't make the claim "so just buy Bitcoin (BTC)" any more sound.
Because value IS the use case of Bitcoin (money), the same criticism doesn’t really apply to Bitcoin.
What does this mean? You've assigned it value, but not given it value. The difference between the two cannot be overstated. Bitcoin (BTC) ISN'T money, not even a monetary network. No matter how many times people try to claim it is. Why? Because people don't use it. They speculate with it. And no serious metric or technological advance has given any reassurance that this will change in the near future. The best example of this is the flexible narrative of Bitcoin (BTC).

Some talking points and their rebuttals:
"It's digital gold!" --- "This hasn't been proven yet. But even if we were to believe it, why wouldn't you hold both? Surely if you're so infatuated with a digital version of something, you'd also hold the physical, time tested thing in (nearly) the same regard?" Some Bitcoin (BTC) holders do hold gold as well, but the vast majority hold next to none of it, or have never even been interested in gold to begin with. That's strange for a group so obsessed with a slightly more fungible, digital version of the same "asset type."

"It's a monetary network!" --- "Monetary how? Who is pricing anything in BTC? How often do you "exchange" it rather than only "accumulate" it? Isn't the point of money to...transact?

"BTC is a hedge!" --- "This is a way to sound smart without actually saying anything. It's an attempt to wrap up the first two points in some grand theory without any evidence or sound explanation."

"Lightening Network will solve high fee issues." --- "It hasn't and it won't. Structurally, the technology has its weak points. It's also pretty cumbersome to use. And other projects can incorporate the same technology more effectively on their own chains, so what stops people from using those other projects?"

"Use other solutions" --- "Ah yes, custodial solutions. Which are what Bitcoin was supposed to give an alternative to."

"Well if you want 'money', use paypal. It's cheaper and easier. If you don't get what Bitcoin (BTC) is, I don't have time to explain it to you. Have Fun Staying Poor!" --- "Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash system"?

"What altcoin are you trying to promote?! You're just a scammer." --- "Maybe i'm looking for something that...has utility?"

The list goes on...
As you can see, the "point" of Bitcoin (BTC) is pretty confusing. It's meant to only be held and accumulated. But it's a monetary network. But it has high fees (which some ludicrously claim is a feature and not a bug). But it has scaling solutions. But even if those scaling solutions aren't very good and aren't being used it doesn't matter because it's only meant to be held and accumulated, so use paypal/something else...

The reason why BTC has managed to remain so strong is because of it's ossification. To remain competitive but keep its stability in the free-market crypto environment, it changed narrative rather than capability. It has just enough talking points backed by first-mover network effect to remain the standard. But it won't stay that way unless there are some serious developments to scale its use case. Until that happens, people are assigning it value, not giving it value.

You may be asking yourself at this point: "Okay, so maybe Bitcoin (BTC) isn't the best option. What's the best crypto project? Also, why do you keep calling it "(BTC)" and not just Bitcoin?

Great questions, i'll start with the second one.
Because some believe that Bitcoin needs to scale appropriately to have real value. In 2017, Bitcoin Cash (BCH) "forked" from the original Bitcoin (BTC) to increase the blocksize and remain a potential candidate for peer-to-peer electronic cash. It can still technically be considered Bitcoin because its blockchain originates from the same genesis block of Satoshi Nakamoto. There are other forked projects (some of them have been mentioned in this thread), but I don't think they have the same value proposition as BCH, all things considered.

"Great, so you're saying I should go with Bitcoin Cash (BCH)?"

NO. I am saying you should try and understand the pros and cons of different projects and their ability to provide value to you and society. Truth be told, between BTC and BCH, I think BCH can do it better. Does that mean it will? No. Does that mean it will be the most financially prosperous crypto or be the definitive monetary network? Double-no.

The point is to understand what you're trying to "get out" of a project by assessing how serious it is (track record - past), how in demand it is (use-case - present) and how relevant it will be (value - future).

Back to the first question; what's the best crypto project?
Answer: No one knows. If you want a PP inspired style portfolio, try and find 4-6 projects that are large (preferably time tested, though even 10 years is chips in a technological revolution like crypto), and offer different use cases to balance "risk". I'll try and outline different "spheres of progress":

1. "Sound money" - BTC/BCH/Dash/ZCash/Monero
2. Financial/contract-based "base layer" - Ethereum/Cosmos/Cardano/Polkadot
3. Interoperability/"Global coverage" - Avalanche, dfinity, Fantom, Solana

This is a very rough way of segmenting them so don't take this strictly, it's just an off hand way to provide a bit of clarity to different use-cases as a way of (trying) to diversify risk. I'm not endorsing any and there are also many other worthwhile projects, this is just to give the general idea.
Finally, you can tweak based on your comfort.

In this sense, you can decide to hold:
20% BTC
20% BCH
20% ETH
20% Cosmos (ATOM)
20% Avalanche (AVAX)

Or overweight BTC and ETH, etc.

Always remember that it's still the very early stages. Technologies can change, developments can change, teams can change, etc.
Marketing (both good and bad) is still more of an influence in crypto today than people are willing to admit.
Don't fall for hype, narratives, promotions, or pipe dreams.
Assume your holding will go to zero.

Stay unemotional, but be excited of what's in store for the future. Good luck to all!

A disclaimer now and one i will add again at the end, to cover all bases: I am not a fan of what BTC has turned into. I will explain what that means briefly in the post, but it shouldn't matter much because this post is about looking at the crypto landscape from a macro perspective. Any project I mention is more to highlight the pros/cons of different use-cases rather than an endorsement or set in stone financial advice. And one more thing- Bitcoininthevp, if you feel anything i've said is unfair, feel free to call me out on it. ;)
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:32 am

Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
I've been following this site passively with no intention of contributing, but the recent discussions of Bitcoin have given me a particular itch that I couldn't help but scratch. Bitcoininthevp has been a great resource, but there are some things that I feel need to be addressed, so I will do that.

A disclaimer now and one i will add again at the end, to cover all bases: I am not a fan of what BTC has turned into. I will explain what that means briefly in the post, but it shouldn't matter much because this post is about looking at the crypto landscape from a macro perspective. Any project I mention is more to highlight the pros/cons of different use-cases rather than an endorsement or set in stone financial advice. And one more thing- Bitcoininthevp, if you feel anything i've said is unfair, feel free to call me out on it. ;)
Glad I could... provoke you to join us :)
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
I've illustrated how in the past there have been coins and evangelists of those coins. And then those coins disappear/go to zero.

This is a great way to keep expectations in check, but a terrible way to assess the merits of a financial asset/use case. When light-bulbs were first being created some overheated, gave little light, weren't reliable etc. Would you say: "Many early revisions weren't good enough, stick to the "original" Electric Arc Lamp"?


I see vincent_c as somewhat new to the space and, yes, my intent was to shed my historical experiences light on his outlook.
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
Bitcoin (BTC) was and is revolutionary. It will always be considered the first mover and the start of a new technology, but to hold it as the only viable option is short sighted and frankly, just wrong.

For technical reasons way beyond the scope of this post, I do not believe Bitcoin (BTC) is a long term solution. "Digital gold" and "new monetary network" are buzzwords that sound great, but aren't realistic. B-vp is right that most projects are either scams or will die a slow death, but that doesn't make the claim "so just buy Bitcoin (BTC)" any more sound.
Ill reiterate, my opinion is there isnt a use case other than money that is proven to me as a good long term investment.

Im also (barely) open to the idea that a new crypto could come along and be a better money than BTC. As Harry said in one of his speeches, ~"and if one does come along, I guarantee ILL be in line before YOU will!".
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
Because value IS the use case of Bitcoin (money), the same criticism doesn’t really apply to Bitcoin.
What does this mean? You've assigned it value, but not given it value. The difference between the two cannot be overstated.
All value is subjective as individuals. Bitcoin is trying to be money, so its perceived money-like properties give it monetary value for those looking for such value. Essentially, high price is the point of bitcoin as its trying to become money and the monetizing process is measured in $.
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
Bitcoin (BTC) ISN'T money, not even a monetary network. No matter how many times people try to claim it is. Why? Because people don't use it. They speculate with it. And no serious metric or technological advance has given any reassurance that this will change in the near future. The best example of this is the flexible narrative of Bitcoin (BTC).

Some talking points and their rebuttals:
"It's digital gold!" --- "This hasn't been proven yet. But even if we were to believe it, why wouldn't you hold both? Surely if you're so infatuated with a digital version of something, you'd also hold the physical, time tested thing in (nearly) the same regard?" Some Bitcoin (BTC) holders do hold gold as well, but the vast majority hold next to none of it, or have never even been interested in gold to begin with. That's strange for a group so obsessed with a slightly more fungible, digital version of the same "asset type."

"It's a monetary network!" --- "Monetary how? Who is pricing anything in BTC? How often do you "exchange" it rather than only "accumulate" it? Isn't the point of money to...transact?

"BTC is a hedge!" --- "This is a way to sound smart without actually saying anything. It's an attempt to wrap up the first two points in some grand theory without any evidence or sound explanation."

"Lightening Network will solve high fee issues." --- "It hasn't and it won't. Structurally, the technology has its weak points. It's also pretty cumbersome to use. And other projects can incorporate the same technology more effectively on their own chains, so what stops people from using those other projects?"

"Use other solutions" --- "Ah yes, custodial solutions. Which are what Bitcoin was supposed to give an alternative to."

"Well if you want 'money', use paypal. It's cheaper and easier. If you don't get what Bitcoin (BTC) is, I don't have time to explain it to you. Have Fun Staying Poor!" --- "Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be a "peer-to-peer electronic cash system"?

"What altcoin are you trying to promote?! You're just a scammer." --- "Maybe i'm looking for something that...has utility?"

The list goes on...
As you can see, the "point" of Bitcoin (BTC) is pretty confusing. It's meant to only be held and accumulated. But it's a monetary network. But it has high fees (which some ludicrously claim is a feature and not a bug). But it has scaling solutions. But even if those scaling solutions aren't very good and aren't being used it doesn't matter because it's only meant to be held and accumulated, so use paypal/something else...
I think two perspectives can address these points:

1. Everything has tradeoffs and Bitcoin is no exception.

The Bitcoin community has prioritized hard money characteristics above all. That also means prioritizing decentralization. It means innovating slowly and changing very little. That means DE- prioritizing onchain payment capabilities (higher fees/lower capacity). It means you cant play tetris on it.

"it has high fees (which some ludicrously claim is a feature and not a bug)" If you believe decentralization is the whole point of crypto, then having ways of sustaining the security of the network isnt really that ludicrous. Since the miner block subsidy (release of new coins) fades away some day, transaction fees need to fill the gap to secure the network. Transaction fees are needed because a hard cap on coins was chosen. Maybe there is some innovative way to skirt this and there are lots of hypothetical discussions here, but I hope we dont get too lost in this as its really be done to death (in 2017 BCH fork).

Lightning and other payment layers on Bitcoin are all promising but need a lot of work.

Yet from my vantage point, Bitcoin is still best positioned to become money. Which leads to...

2. An investment in Bitcoin is largely a speculation on Bitcoin becoming money.

This doesn’t mean Bitcoin is the unit of account out of the gates. It means monetization of an asset takes time and is a gradient, not binary. Ill keep posting this chart as the type of mental model Im talking about:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11918&start=25#p223442
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
The reason why BTC has managed to remain so strong is because of it's ossification. To remain competitive but keep its stability in the free-market crypto environment, it changed narrative rather than capability. It has just enough talking points backed by first-mover network effect to remain the standard. But it won't stay that way unless there are some serious developments to scale its use case. Until that happens, people are assigning it value, not giving it value.
I dont think personification of Bitcoin is a valuable way to position it. Some in the Bitcoin community are more hard money/conservative and some are more payments/innovative. The community split over this in 2017, so "Bitcoin" narrative sounds a bit different perhaps since the payments people left the community to a large degree.
Arthur Boe Nansa wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 am
You may be asking yourself at this point: "Okay, so maybe Bitcoin (BTC) isn't the best option. What's the best crypto project? Also, why do you keep calling it "(BTC)" and not just Bitcoin?

Great questions, i'll start with the second one.
Because some believe that Bitcoin needs to scale appropriately to have real value. In 2017, Bitcoin Cash (BCH) "forked" from the original Bitcoin (BTC) to increase the blocksize and remain a potential candidate for peer-to-peer electronic cash. It can still technically be considered Bitcoin because its blockchain originates from the same genesis block of Satoshi Nakamoto. There are other forked projects (some of them have been mentioned in this thread), but I don't think they have the same value proposition as BCH, all things considered.

"Great, so you're saying I should go with Bitcoin Cash (BCH)?"

NO. I am saying you should try and understand the pros and cons of different projects and their ability to provide value to you and society. Truth be told, between BTC and BCH, I think BCH can do it better. Does that mean it will? No. Does that mean it will be the most financially prosperous crypto or be the definitive monetary network? Double-no.

The point is to understand what you're trying to "get out" of a project by assessing how serious it is (track record - past), how in demand it is (use-case - present) and how relevant it will be (value - future).
This is fair.

I obviously dont agree that BCH is better and the market hasn’t agreed (yet?) either from a pricing perspective but I understand your stance here.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:50 am

vincent_c wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:43 am
bitcoininthevp wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:32 am
I see vincent_c as somewhat new to the space and, yes, my intent was to shed my historical experiences light on his outlook.
This is not a fair statement for a couple reasons.

Regardless of how long someone has been in a space, can you focus on the arguments rather than anything personal?

Regarding my outlook, I'm trying to advocate a purely agnostic approach which is inline with PP principles.

Can we shift the discussion to identifying what is the best agnostic approach to having crypto exposure?
Sorry, no offense. We are all new at some point.

I believe an agnostic approach to crypto investing is traditional models of indexed investing. Market cap weighted index of the top 10 coins could be one?
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:50 am

Came across this. Not sure if it’s useful on your quest.

https://www.visionhill.com/indices
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by bitcoininthevp » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:49 pm

bitcoininthevp wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:36 pm
vincent_c wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:46 pm
If BTC has no use as a collateral asset, then it's usefulness as a store of value is limited.
There is no requirement that bitcoin can only be used on blockchains. Bitcoin is acting as collateral to get USD loans for example (Unchained Capital). It is also used as collateral for trading/exchanges.
Interesting document on 'Banking on Bitcoin: BTC as Collateral':
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ateral.pdf
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by glennds » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:50 pm

bitcoininthevp wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:32 am


All value is subjective as individuals. Bitcoin is trying to be money, so its perceived money-like properties give it monetary value for those looking for such value. Essentially, high price is the point of bitcoin as its trying to become money and the monetizing process is measured in $.
Does it give you any pause that the IRS has designated BTC as "property" thus really complicating the ability to use it as a medium of exchange? Basically every transaction will have built in gain or loss which would need to be accounted and reported. To truly function like money, this could not be the case.

Of course this is not to say all the other strengths as a store of value or a speculative asset are not present. But as a medium of exchange, the IRS is a barrier at the moment.
Thoughts?
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by doodle » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:01 pm

glennds wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:50 pm
bitcoininthevp wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:32 am


All value is subjective as individuals. Bitcoin is trying to be money, so its perceived money-like properties give it monetary value for those looking for such value. Essentially, high price is the point of bitcoin as its trying to become money and the monetizing process is measured in $.
Does it give you any pause that the IRS has designated BTC as "property" thus really complicating the ability to use it as a medium of exchange? Basically every transaction will have built in gain or loss which would need to be accounted and reported. To truly function like money, this could not be the case.

Of course this is not to say all the other strengths as a store of value or a speculative asset are not present. But as a medium of exchange, the IRS is a barrier at the moment.
Thoughts?
What other option do they have? I mean, they can't denominate it as money and undermine their own existence. Sooner or later I think two options are going to present themselves to central bankers and politicians....we can either choose the frying pan or the fire. There isn't any easy way out of this debt hole we've dug ourselves into. We either live within our means and suffer the deflationary consequences...which would have been a lot easier a few bubbles ago prior to the notion that we need bailouts everytime people behave unwisely.... or keep the money printer going and eventually destroy our monetary system, government and make everyone miserable. Personally, the former although painful...sounds like the better option.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by vnatale » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:58 pm

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Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by whatchamacallit » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:21 pm

I sold all my gbtc on Friday. I made 30% or so profit.

With everything except btc going up last week something definitely felt broken with it.

It just felt like dogecoin run up could cause all of them to crash.

I don't know when I will get back in. Still hate the stuff but would love the profits.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by whatchamacallit » Mon May 10, 2021 9:28 pm

Bubble getting bigger. I saw someone offer crypto classes on nextdoor which is a neighbor hood social media site.

That must mean all the old housewives will be trading crypto soon.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 pm

About once a week now, a bartender will bring up crypto.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by I Shrugged » Tue May 11, 2021 8:24 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 pm
About once a week now, a bartender will bring up crypto.
Yeah that's a sign of something.

One good result of crypto mania is that way more people know what fiat currency is and why it matters.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by I Shrugged » Tue May 11, 2021 8:26 am

whatchamacallit wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:28 pm
Bubble getting bigger. I saw someone offer crypto classes on nextdoor which is a neighbor hood social media site.

That must mean all the old housewives will be trading crypto soon.
The fact that people have to take classes to try to understand it, argues against its success. If you think about the IQ bell curve in either the USA or the world, there are a lot of people in the left half. Can you see them using Bitcoin in anything like its present format? So is Bitcoin racist, elitist, or both? :)
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 16, 2021 3:48 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 8:24 am
Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 pm
About once a week now, a bartender will bring up crypto.
Yeah that's a sign of something.

One good result of crypto mania is that way more people know what fiat currency is and why it matters.
I only ever have 1-2% of my assets in fiat, but something tells me fiat will always be around somewhere long after these cryptos have gone the way of the dodo. What are we up to now, 10,000 different crypto coins?

I agree though that crypto has woken up lots of people, particularly the young to the problems of fiat. I hope it leads somewhere good. I hope it does NOT lead to a renewal of faith in fiat should all this crypto hit a price that matches its intrinsic value.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by whatchamacallit » Sun May 16, 2021 5:30 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 3:48 pm


I only ever have 1-2% of my assets in fiat, but something tells me fiat will always be around somewhere long after these cryptos have gone the way of the dodo. What are we up to now, 10,000 different crypto coins?
Now that sounds interesting. Only 1-2% in fiat?

No cash or bonds? Just gold and stocks? Or also crypto?
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by l82start » Sun May 16, 2021 6:13 pm

i saw this in a circle k store yesterday....

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-Government 2020+ - a BANANA REPUBLIC - if you can keep it

-Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by I Shrugged » Sun May 16, 2021 7:36 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 3:48 pm

What are we up to now, 10,000 different crypto coins?

They smell like tulips to me.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 16, 2021 7:53 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 5:30 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 3:48 pm


I only ever have 1-2% of my assets in fiat, but something tells me fiat will always be around somewhere long after these cryptos have gone the way of the dodo. What are we up to now, 10,000 different crypto coins?
Now that sounds interesting. Only 1-2% in fiat?

No cash or bonds? Just gold and stocks? Or also crypto?
Gold, silver, platinum, and stocks. And a lil cash. Most stocks international or oil or mining. I still think gold and international stocks are undervalued so i keep buying. If they were overvalued by my metrics I'd consider some bonds but at these interest rates sheeesh.
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Re: I think it’s time to move into crypto

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed May 19, 2021 8:25 am

doodle wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:01 pm
glennds wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:50 pm
bitcoininthevp wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:32 am


All value is subjective as individuals. Bitcoin is trying to be money, so its perceived money-like properties give it monetary value for those looking for such value. Essentially, high price is the point of bitcoin as its trying to become money and the monetizing process is measured in $.
Does it give you any pause that the IRS has designated BTC as "property" thus really complicating the ability to use it as a medium of exchange? Basically every transaction will have built in gain or loss which would need to be accounted and reported. To truly function like money, this could not be the case.

Of course this is not to say all the other strengths as a store of value or a speculative asset are not present. But as a medium of exchange, the IRS is a barrier at the moment.
Thoughts?
What other option do they have? I mean, they can't denominate it as money and undermine their own existence. Sooner or later I think two options are going to present themselves to central bankers and politicians....we can either choose the frying pan or the fire. There isn't any easy way out of this debt hole we've dug ourselves into. We either live within our means and suffer the deflationary consequences...which would have been a lot easier a few bubbles ago prior to the notion that we need bailouts everytime people behave unwisely.... or keep the money printer going and eventually destroy our monetary system, government and make everyone miserable. Personally, the former although painful...sounds like the better option.
that's not going to happen when you have scheming politicians whose first priority is themselves. **Democracy**
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