Signing Off - Peace, Out

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Kbg
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Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Kbg » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:10 am

I decided to post this here as the VP section has been my home.

I’ve been a part of the board since 2014 and have tried to be a positive value added poster with some glaring exceptions which in my book is a personal fail. Unfortunately a lot of the internet has turned into a cesspool which I try not to add to. At the end of the day I’m here for financial discussions and there just isn’t much high quality financial discussion going on anymore. I’m finding myself getting sucked more and more into the political stuff and frankly I got better stuff to do with my life.

So I think I’m going to sign off. It’s been fun and I wish all of the newbies and regulars nothing but high CAGRs.

Peace, out.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:28 am

i am about as anti politics as you can get . but on the forums posters have a hard time separating the two .

quite frankly , i never gave a shit about politics since at the end of the day all i do is play the cards i am dealt regardless of who is in power .

for my 40 years i worked , every day i got up , put my pants on and went to work . i was responsible for everything good or bad in my life . if you never told me we changed those in charge my daily life would never know the difference .

except for getting drafted at the height of vietnam , i can say no party ever made much of a difference in my daily life . i pretty much tune the politics out , it is all bullshit .
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l82start
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by l82start » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:46 am

it would be a shame to loose you, i hope this is more forum vacation than final goodby... :'(
election season is a tough time to avoid politics, as much as i enjoy the philosophical political discussions, the world has gone mad.. i cant say i blame you for needing to build a clearer divide between what is going on and what really matters in your life...
-Government 2020+ - a BANANA REPUBLIC - if you can keep it

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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by GT » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:47 am

Kbg wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:10 am
I decided to post this here as the VP section has been my home.

I’ve been a part of the board since 2014 and have tried to be a positive value added poster with some glaring exceptions which in my book is a personal fail. Unfortunately a lot of the internet has turned into a cesspool which I try not to add to. At the end of the day I’m here for financial discussions and there just isn’t much high quality financial discussion going on anymore. I’m finding myself getting sucked more and more into the political stuff and frankly I got better stuff to do with my life.

So I think I’m going to sign off. It’s been fun and I wish all of the newbies and regulars nothing but high CAGRs.

Peace, out.
Kbg - I see your point - the election will be over in a few days but the drama of politics will drag on forever.

As a group have we thought of making a Political off topic section - That way we can still have our normal off topic discussions without any politics - and a section for politics?

The HB is a boring set up -25x25x25x25 - rebalance - We need a place for off topic items - we don't want heavy moderation so maybe we self moderate by only talking politics in the politics section
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Xan » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:00 am

KBG, totally understand, but maybe take just a few days off before leaving forever? The election will be over soon. Surely we're at peak politics right now.
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sophie
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:07 am

Yes, KGB really a shame if you truly have signed off.

There aren't many financial discussions because the past ones have been so extensive there just isn't much left to talk about. Harry Browne's philosophy and approach could be revisited though, and perhaps you could start up some threads on this if you like. I have started to avoid a lot of the financial threads because they're mainly about active rather than passive investing, which is fundamentally not of interest to me.

2020 has been a near perfect storm of politics, and many issues are foremost in all our minds compared to our set-it-and-forget-it portfolios. It's not surprising that these discussions have dominated. I've enjoyed them all the same and sorry if you haven't.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Tyler » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:33 am

Just want to say I value your contributions, KBG.

Take a break, be happy, and check back in after the election. Politics wears me out, too, and hopefully things will calm down by then.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:23 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:07 am
KGB
8)
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
ahhrunforthehills
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:06 pm

@KBG

+1

I, probably like you, only really come to this website anymore to see if one of a handful of posters has contributed anything new and of interest.

It used to be pretty cerebral for investments. Years ago, the vibe seemed fairly unbiased in presenting information and more truth-seeking. People didn't mind being proved wrong. IMHO, now I watch a lot of people just talk in circles hoping to confirm their own biases (both in political and investing).

I don't think it has anything to do with current politics. I think the current politics has just made it more noticeable.

However, I think this might have to do with a demographic shift of the internet as a whole. Forums have become a bit antiquated for many people. Certainly, this must have some type of an impact on who the average frequent forum poster is.

Many people in forums nowadays appear to be primarily looking for friends or be a part of a community. I think this is a large shift from a decade ago when people were primarily just seeking information.

Unfortunately, in our current world... when you are seeking information, you have to spend hours and hours sifting through people's self-affirming posts to find anything of value. Instead of seeing data you get to see superiority complexes.

Anyways... here is my financial go-to that I use instead. Maybe it can help you as well...

1. Find some financial youtube channels that you really enjoy.
2. Type the name of that youtube channel at https://ytcomment.kmcat.uk/#
3. In the results, click "Search all Videos"
4. Type in the topic you are interested in. For example: "Negative Interest Rates"

I find that this provides me with EXACTLY what I am looking for. It gives me both confirming opinions and contrasting opinions. Often times, I will also get to see the perspective from the youtube content creator. All of the answers are generally short and to the point (and the # of "Likes" helps to skip over the BS). Since you are outside of the Youtube ecosystem, you do not have sneaky AI trying to suck you in to watch another video. It is simply uber-efficient from a time/value standpoint.

In fact, every now and then I will see a comment from someone who is really insightful. I can then start searching for other posts made by that individual.

I found infinitely more perspective about specific financial topics using this tool then ever would have been possible from a single forum. However, I do use this forum to give me ideas on what to search for :)

This forum, bogleheads, etc. = macro concept ideas
Youtube comment search tool = perspectives
Google = analysis

I also enjoy the comment sections on FIRE websites like earlyretirement.now, etc. These seem more aligned to in-depth discussions on passive investing.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:34 pm

I totally understand the sentiment coming from the OP. I am also always slightly confused, too.

If you want more investment discussion then simply post more and read more of the investment threads. Try to contribute some interesting ideas. I happen to be cooking up a new VP idea right now.

I'm sick of all the political threads too, so I simply don't read or contribute to them. If you simply don't read or post in them they're effectively not even there.

I guess I'm just not on the same level in terms of understanding what the problem really is.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Smith1776
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:42 pm

Perhaps the one thing the Knuckleheads forum got right was banning political discussions.

We should perhaps consider this policy for our forum. Alternatively, maybe we can have a separate forum section entirely dedicated to politics.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:54 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:42 pm
Perhaps the one thing the Knuckleheads forum got right was banning political discussions.

We should perhaps consider this policy for our forum. Alternatively, maybe we can have a separate forum section entirely dedicated to politics.
I think like you do. Really, the only thing that's annoying is tech making a new thread every time he watches a new video, but that's not even that bad. We used to keep most of the political stuff corralled in really long threads that were easily avoided if you didn't want to be bombarded. But sometimes you do see an interesting link or read a good point or argument in the debates, so I like it.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Smith1776
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:09 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:00 am
...
Paging Xan.

I think we need to take action. As Kriegs put it, doing something to corral the flood of political discussion I think is called for. A separate forum section? A policy of posting political material in a dedicated thread or two? (One for election stuff and another for general politics?)

Multiple people over the past few months have lamented the political bent on the forum and have either expressed wanting to leave or have actually left. Not good for our community. Hmmmmm.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Tortoise
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Tortoise » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:27 pm

Banning political discussions on this forum would run counter to the philosophy of freedom that Harry Browne, the creator of the Permanent Portfolio, embraced. Although not all of this forum's members align with Harry Browne's philosophy, I think most of us do.

Presumably we're all adults here. Those who don't enjoy the political discussions here should be -- and indeed are -- free to ignore them. Many forum members have done just that.

I agree with the others who have suggested creating a "Political Discussions" sub-forum. It's potentially a good compromise that would allow political discussions here to continue while possibly making it easier for forum members to avoid them (especially if Xan could find a way to let members exclude all "Political Discussions" threads from search results like "New posts"/"Unread posts"/etc.). The main drawback to that approach is that it would create more work for the moderators; they'd need to occasionally move/fork non-political threads into "Political Discussions" if they get derailed into politics.

Regarding the dearth of investing discussions recently, it seems to be a cyclical thing. Just wait until there's a year or two where traditional stock/bond portfolios have a big decline and the PP has a big gain. New members will flood in, and investing discussions will flourish once again.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by pp4me » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:40 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:27 pm
I agree with the others who have suggested creating a "Political Discussions" sub-forum. It's potentially a good compromise that would allow political discussions here to continue while possibly making it easier for forum members to avoid them (especially if Xan could find a way to let members exclude all "Political Discussions" threads from search results like "New posts"/"Unread posts"/etc.). The main drawback to that approach is that it would create more work for the moderators; they'd need to occasionally move/fork non-political threads into "Political Discussions" if they get derailed into politics.
They can speak for themselves but that sounds like way too much work for the moderators to me. Even topics that start out non-political often go in that direction - like the Coronavirus General Discussion.

IMO if you want a safe space with no political discussions and only financial/consumer issues there is already a forum for that called Bogleheads.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Xan » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:59 pm

I think it's worth a try.

I've created a Politics subforum inside of Other. And there's now a "Non-political" group which anybody can join. To join that group:
* Click the little "person" icon at the upper right under the search bar
* Click the "Usergroups" tab
* Scroll down to the "Non-Memberships" section and click the radio button (under the "Select" header) corresponding to "Non-political"
* Click the "Submit" button down towards the bottom-right.

Joining the group will prevent you from getting notifications related to posts in the Politics subforum, and will prevent threads in that subforum from showing up in your New Posts. You can still visit that subforum and participate however you like. And of course you can leave the Non-political group any time.

I don't think it has to be perfect to be very useful. In other words, if there's talk of politics in the Coronavirus discussion, that isn't the end of the world. It's still useful to have the explicitly political threads over in their own section.

I've moved a few of the latest active threads to the new Politics section. Let's see how it goes.
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l82start
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by l82start » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:01 pm

i don't think banning is a option that would be in keeping with the forums ethos, splitting threads were things get off topic makes sense,
i would encourage news article posters to consolidate if they are planning to post news links, having them all in one place would clean things up a bit..
back fixing the existing news story posts would likely create more mess than it resolves, but maybe going forward...
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-Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by ahhrunforthehills » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:06 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:40 pm
if you want a safe space with no political discussions and only financial/consumer issues there is already a forum for that called Bogleheads.
Whoa. The OP did not say that he was leaving because there were political discussions. He said:

"At the end of the day I’m here for financial discussions and there just isn’t much high quality financial discussion going on anymore"

To be fair, it is pretty hard to argue with his statement. If you can't find financial topics to talk about in this environment... sheesh. The reality is that the majority of people here would rather talk politics than financials (which is fine). This no longer meets the OPs needs.

Why change anything?
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by vnatale » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:12 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:06 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:40 pm
if you want a safe space with no political discussions and only financial/consumer issues there is already a forum for that called Bogleheads.
Whoa. The OP did not say that he was leaving because there were political discussions. He said:

"At the end of the day I’m here for financial discussions and there just isn’t much high quality financial discussion going on anymore"

To be fair, it is pretty hard to argue with his statement. If you can't find financial topics to talk about in this environment... sheesh. The reality is that the majority of people here would rather talk politics than financials (which is fine). This no longer meets the OPs needs.

Why change anything?
I second this...

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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l82start
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by l82start » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:14 pm

agreed i wouldn't change fundamental aspects of the forum ... a little thread clean up now and then is not a bad thing..
-Government 2020+ - a BANANA REPUBLIC - if you can keep it

-Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Xan » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:16 pm

I'm hoping the new section is not a fundamental change. It's along the lines of "a little thread cleanup" in that it's a new area for a big topic to live.

The new group gives people the option to not be bothered by the discussions that take place there, if they want to. Nothing is banned or forbidden.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:21 pm

ahhrunforthehills wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:06 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:40 pm
if you want a safe space with no political discussions and only financial/consumer issues there is already a forum for that called Bogleheads.
Whoa. The OP did not say that he was leaving because there were political discussions. He said:

"At the end of the day I’m here for financial discussions and there just isn’t much high quality financial discussion going on anymore"

To be fair, it is pretty hard to argue with his statement. If you can't find financial topics to talk about in this environment... sheesh. The reality is that the majority of people here would rather talk politics than financials (which is fine). This no longer meets the OPs needs.

Why change anything?
Absolutely fair enough. I just think that KBG's post was really just a final straw on the camel's back regarding the general tenor towards politics around here. You make a very good point though.
I still find the James Rickards portfolio fascinating.
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:18 pm

One of the issues that several of us have had is the explosion of "microthreads" that make the forum much harder to navigate. Two people in particular have been driving this.

May I respectfully suggest that thoughts that fall under the heading of an existing thread be posted on that thread instead of being made its own microtopic? Otherwise, by all means start a new thread but make it more general. For example, given the number of Tim Pool videos that have been posted, make a "Tim Pool video" thread and post it there.

Totally agree with the new "Politics" section. I disagree that financial topics are the only legitimate discourse on the forum. Harry Browne's philosophy of investing was very much bound up with his libertarian philosophy, and that has in the past attracted many libertarians to this forum. Which I hope continues. For example, I happen to enjoy libertarian-focused discussions far more than VP discussions - I'm 100% uninterested in those and I basically never touch anything in the VP section. Similarly, someone who loves gambling with stocks will want to post frequently in the VP section but may be uninterested in the political threads. What's wrong with that?
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by l82start » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:51 pm

sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:18 pm
One of the issues that several of us have had is the explosion of "microthreads" that make the forum much harder to navigate. Two people in particular have been driving this.

May I respectfully suggest that thoughts that fall under the heading of an existing thread be posted on that thread instead of being made its own microtopic? Otherwise, by all means start a new thread but make it more general. For example, given the number of Tim Pool videos that have been posted, make a "Tim Pool video" thread and post it there.

Totally agree with the new "Politics" section. I disagree that financial topics are the only legitimate discourse on the forum. Harry Browne's philosophy of investing was very much bound up with his libertarian philosophy, and that has in the past attracted many libertarians to this forum. Which I hope continues. For example, I happen to enjoy libertarian-focused discussions far more than VP discussions - I'm 100% uninterested in those and I basically never touch anything in the VP section. Similarly, someone who loves gambling with stocks will want to post frequently in the VP section but may be uninterested in the political threads. What's wrong with that?
WELL SAID!
-Government 2020+ - a BANANA REPUBLIC - if you can keep it

-Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Signing Off - Peace, Out

Post by Maddy » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:27 pm

What's NOT political (or at least politicized) these days? Is discussion of coronavirus political? (Hint: If you lean left, no; if you lean right, yes.) Is it so abnormal that people want to engage in political discussion three days from the most important election in the nation's history? Isn't the obvious antidote to a paucity of discussion on non-political topics the starting non-political topics? Is the demonstrated interest in political themes something that needs to be controlled? Does the answer to the immediately preceding question depend upon your politics?
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