Seven providers have their hooks in me

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ochotona
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Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:11 pm

I guess it's a good problem, but I have too many providers, and some are linked to work. When I stop working the Vanguard and HealthEquity will go away. I don't see how I could consolidate below five, because each one has unique features I like. I guess I'm asking the group if my thoughts about the feature uniqueness is incomplete.

Vanguard - company 401(k), no choice

HealthEquity - company HSA, no choice but I transfer all of the money every few months to: TD Ameritrade - trading home of the Lively HSA

Schwab - where all of my IRAs are currently, but I also like the global no-fee ATM, and I like to have an Amex card, so I have the Schwab Amex dumping cash rewards back into Schwab

Fidelity - brand new this week, doing new issue 90-day US Treasuries on auto-roll

GoldStar Trust Company - physical gold metal Roth IRA, stored at Delaware Depository

TreasuryDirect - I-Bonds, only way to own these. I won't hold paper, too hard to redeem. I don't have a banking relationship with anyone who will redeem paper bonds.

My wife looks at the list of providers and accounts, and it makes her dizzy.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by barrett » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:09 pm

ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:11 pm
TreasuryDirect - I-Bonds, only way to own these. I won't hold paper, too hard to redeem. I don't have a banking relationship with anyone who will redeem paper bonds.
I have redeemed paper I-Bonds quite a few times and at several different banks where I have nothing more than a checking account. Ocho, what have been the problems you have encountered?
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:04 pm

The AMEX Blue Cash card is my first and only credit card. What ones do you think are better?
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:12 pm

ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:11 pm
My wife looks at the list of providers and accounts, and it makes her dizzy.
Heresey alert.

I have abandoned the permanent portfolio partially because of this and partially because of quest to pay off mortgage.

I sold all gold at around $1330.

Goal is only 3 buckets. 401k, reward checking and ira

5 years of expenses in cash equivilants and then total stock market. This does not make me overly stock heavy at the moment.

I might reevaluate gold when net worth makes sense to buy overseas. For now I am fine with house as inflation hedge.

But now I can just train wife to hold amount of cash she is comfortable with and just keep piling into to total stock fund. Basically same as Warren Buffet's plan for his wife.

I am thankful for permanent portfolio because it kept me at least partially in stock market when I didn't want it at all.

Rewards credit cards also complicate things but will continue for now. Penny saved is penny earned. Mostly use 3 cards, Citi 2%, Chase and discover rotating 5%.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 pm

Exit fees:

$50 to transfer all assets out of a Schwab account. Multiply times number of accounts. Hundreds of Dollars. I wonder if Fidelity would pick those up for me.

Fidelity has high security token, like Schwab.

That fee free global ATM access at Schwab is really cool, though...

I think I'm going to to be at all the providers. The proportions may change.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by InsuranceGuy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:30 pm

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Last edited by InsuranceGuy on Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:51 am

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:46 am
ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 pm
Fidelity has high security token, like Schwab.
How exactly does that work? Is that different than 2 factor authentication? They email you a code every time you want to log in?
https://vip.symantec.com/

Or, Schwab will send you a little dongle which is completely divorced from your smartphone and China spying on it. I used to have the dongle, but kept losing it...
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:53 am

Maybe the key is... when I'm old and sick and ready to kick the bucket, consolidate for benefits of my heirs. At that point I won't care about global fee-free ATMs and credit cards. I'll be traveling to the mahogany yacht.

I'm realizing some of these providers capture our loyalty with little trinkets that maybe aren't worth that much in the grand scheme of things after all.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 am

If you know when you're gonna die, that might be a workable plan.
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ochotona
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:51 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 am
If you know when you're gonna die, that might be a workable plan.
Sometimes you do. Sometimes you're gunned down by a jealous husband.

Well, you know, there's a point, after age 80 for most healthy people, why you stop traveling, the mind gets less sharp, and you just know (at least the KIDS know) that Mom or Dad need to start simplifying things. Of course Mom and Dad may be in total denial. I don't think I'll be, since I'm thinking about it already.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by Xan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:07 pm

I would prefer to die peacefully in my sleep, like my uncle, and not screaming in terror like all his passengers.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:41 pm

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ochotona
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:08 pm

ochotona wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:51 am
MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:46 am
ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:26 pm
Fidelity has high security token, like Schwab.
How exactly does that work? Is that different than 2 factor authentication? They email you a code every time you want to log in?
https://vip.symantec.com/

Or, Schwab will send you a little dongle which is completely divorced from your smartphone and China spying on it. I used to have the dongle, but kept losing it...
Enabled on Fidelity today. Same phone app supplies expiring 6-digit codes for Schwab and Fidelity. Works like a champ!
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by dualstow » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:34 pm

For credit cards, see the boglehead threads or the points guy.
Lots of cards give 3% back on restaurants now. I also like the Fidelity visa (formerly amex) that offers 2% cash back on everything, provided you put the rewards in a taxable cash account at Fidelity.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by sophie » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:09 pm

Ochotona, I have the same situation as you. When I retire, I'm going to be able to consolidate a bit but will still be left with 403bs at TIAA-CREF and Vanguard, an HSA at Schwab, brokerage accounts at Vanguard and Fidelity, Treasury Direct, and Perth Mint. And a pile of gold Eagles. Yikes!!

I'll just have to leave a printed set of instructions and hope someone will figure out how to deal with all this. And hopefully the 403b's will either be converted into annuities or withdrawn/Roth converted before those instructions are needed.

BTW my goto credit cards are AmEx Blue Cash (6% groceries, 3% gas for those of you who buy that stuff) and Citi Double Cash (2%). Thinking about getting one of those Amazon cards for 5% cash back, pretty sweet deal. But, I'd have to figure out the right credit bureau to unfreeze.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by dualstow » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:49 pm

I love the Chase Amazon credit card even though the price of Prime is going up. 5% back on Whole Foods, but we don’t really shop there.

Edit: Sophie, sounds like you have the Preferred Blue Cash card, the one with a $95 fee. I have the original, with no fee. Not so great rewards, though, so I don’t use it anymore.
RIP Marcello Gandini
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by sophie » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:09 pm

Yup it's the one with the fee. They just raised that last year. It's still worth while. I end up netting about 4% cash back after the fee. You also get 3% at Macys which is nice since they now have online Zappos-like shopping (free returns and you get your clothes shopping done without ever having to see the inside of a dressing room - nice.)
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by dualstow » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:59 pm

Nice! I still like Macy’s and actually go there in person.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:44 pm

A new angle on Schwab vs Fidelity... ETF performance.

The trade-for-free iShares ETFs at Fidelity have a spread which is about half of the spread of the Schwab ETFs. For a big trade, like I would encounter running the GEM strategy, it could be more than $100.

The iShares equity ETFs and aggregate bond ETF perform better. The Schwab US Treasury ETFs perform better (but bigger spread). "Perform better" means I like how CAGR and Sortino Ratio manifest.

We are talking small differences here. If you have a $100,000 it's not a big deal. It matters more above $1,000,000. It could make sense to pay $5 and save on the spread difference.

Now I'm wondering which one sells actual T-Bonds more cheaply. I'll have to create some buy orders and compare them.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:57 am

I'm asking over on Bogleheads about spreads.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:05 am

I talked to Schwab, and they told me it is possible for an ETF order to fill at a fractional penny, between the bid and ask price if they are separated by a penny. But, it's not possible to predict when you are going to get that fraction of a penny price improvement; it's at the market maker's discretion. So the ETF.COM average spread is still an important statistic, though I might get lucky and catch a break, but you can't count on that.

Today as a test, I traded these no-commission ETFs at Schwab:

I sold 1 share SCHX, and tried to place a limit order at the bid, which failed, I increased it one penny to the ask, and it filled exactly at the ask. Market maker is Schwab.

Then I bought 2 shares SPTL, nothing happened until I put in the ask as the limit price, then it filled, but I got 1/2 penny discount off the ask. Woo-hoo! Market maker is State Street.

So I think this spread problem that Schwab ETFs has is still real... and that in the future, after I vacate my Schwab ETF positions because of Dual Momentum GEM popping into fixed income, I need to:

1. Pay $4.95 per trade and get IVV, VOO, or SPY instead of SCHX when GEM goes back to risk-on, or,
2. Migrate over to Fidelity (iShares for free) or Vanguard. I've been with Schwab for decades, so this is tough for me to consider doing

The Schwab trader did not think trying to trade 6300 shares of SCHX presented a problem. He saw orders for 2k and 3k shares whiz by him on his terminal as we spoke. I suggested maybe I could split my order into 2 or 3 parts, and he agreed with that. So I'm not in need of specialized trading services even for a $422,000 position.

I could split my accounts between Schwab and Fidelity. This is has been discussed here as a resiliency move (what if one of the firms got hacked?). I'd keep my buy-and-hold bond-prone accounts at Schwab, and my Dual Momentum actively-traded equity-prone accounts at Fidelity. That actually makes a lot of sense, now that I think about it.

Yes, Pugchief, the TD Ameritrade ETFs are kinda small, illiquid ETFs. I'll put up with them for my HSA, but I would not for my IRAs. But still way better than the choices at my employer's HSA.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by Mr Vacuum » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:32 pm

Fidelity has a refund-all-ATM fees debit card. I haven’t tested it outside the U.S. but it hasn’t let me down inside.
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Re: Seven providers have their hooks in me

Post by ochotona » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:53 pm

Mr Vacuum wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:32 pm
Fidelity has a refund-all-ATM fees debit card. I haven’t tested it outside the U.S. but it hasn’t let me down inside.
That's really common for online banks now. For me, the litmus test is offshore. I was reading the Fidelity website, and I think theirs will work that way, too.
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