Which Assets in Roth IRA?

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Tyler
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by Tyler » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am

ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am
Oh yeah any IRA is good for gold because you avoid the Collectibles Tax.
I've always thought "collectibles tax" is a misnomer, as it implies a separate tax on top of what you'd normally owe. However, gains from gold are taxed as ordinary income at whatever tax bracket you fall in but with preferential treatment that the tax is capped at 28%. You also have control over when and how much you need to sell. Compare that to bond interest that is also taxed as ordinary income but with no such cap and no choice but to pay it every year.

In any case, I've personally come to the conclusion that the simplicity, predictability, and flexibility of just having separate complete portfolios in each account more than makes up for any theoretical tax savings from over-thinking where to store every last penny. But obviously YMMV.
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by boglerdude » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:16 am

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ochotona
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by ochotona » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:28 am

Desert wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:57 am
boglerdude wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:16 am
Achieva 4% 5 year IRA CD

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewto ... ?p=4063141
And 4.2% for $75,000+
If we get a 5% CD, I'm selling all of my stocks.
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by ochotona » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:25 pm

I bought an 11% ? CD from Imperial Savings and Loan in California back in the day.
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:59 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:41 pm
Right now my Roth is 5% cash, 22% TSM, and 73% long bonds.

I haven't contributed to it in a long time, but when I did I was putting money into lagging assets, so that's how that came about.
Is there any other conclusion that from the last time you contributed until you wrote the above that long bonds had to have greatly outperformed TSM?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:01 pm

ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am
Oh yeah any IRA is good for gold because you avoid the Collectibles Tax.

I have physical gold in a Roth... GoldStar Trust Company, Canyon TX. Only works for near $100k otherwise fees eat you up.
Still doing this and recommending this?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:04 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:59 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:41 pm
Right now my Roth is 5% cash, 22% TSM, and 73% long bonds.

I haven't contributed to it in a long time, but when I did I was putting money into lagging assets, so that's how that came about.
Is there any other conclusion that from the last time you contributed until you wrote the above that long bonds had to have greatly outperformed TSM?

Vinny
Stocks did better, I started with a higher % of long bonds in the Roth.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by vnatale » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:56 pm

KevinW wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:15 pm
There are two schools of thought, either "one big PP spread among all accounts" or "one separate 4x25 in each account."

When I started out I did "one big PP" but later changed to "separate 4x25". Both approaches work fine and have their merits, so I think this is really a personal preference thing.

Benefits of "one big PP":
- when you have a mix of taxable and tax-advantaged accounts, you can optimize the sheltering benefit by putting less tax-efficient assets in the sheltered accounts
- or, you can put the assets with the best growth prospects (stocks) in Roth accounts to maximize the size of your Roth
- likely involves fewer individual holdings, so fewer transactions to deal with or pay fees on
- you can work around inflexible accounts, such as 401k's with no gold vehicle
- this is what Harry Browne suggested

Benefits of "separate 4x25":
- conceptually simpler
- rebalancing can be done on an account-by-account basis, so does not involve any portfolio-wide optimization, which is easier for you, and more straightforward if someone else had to do it on your behalf
- asset-positioning decisions do not involve predicting the future (which is impossible per PP philosophy), or influence from government programs
- moreover, minimizes regret in the event that your asset-positioning scheme backfires (e.g. stocks underperform in your holding period, leaving your Roth smaller than it could've been)
- no "seismic shift" rebalancing events when one asset gets too big/small to fit in one of your accounts so you need to move everything else around at once
- likewise no "seismic shift" when you rollover accounts or change employers

Personally I was persuaded by the "minimize-regret" argument to separate out the accounts. But I think this can really go either way.
Another gem worth resurrecting....

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by vnatale » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:00 pm

Tyler wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am


I've always thought "collectibles tax" is a misnomer, as it implies a separate tax on top of what you'd normally owe.
Why should I be not surprised that "gem" creator Tyler also uses words precisely and correctly??!!

MISNOMER!

I am putting you all on notice. Pay attention the next times you hear someone say this word. More times than not they use it incorrectly. They say it when they mean "misconception". These people are not only sports related people (generally not the most intellectual or highly educated in our society) but, at first shocking to me, the highly educated also!


Vinny
Last edited by vnatale on Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by Mark Leavy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:05 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:00 pm
Tyler wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am


I've always thought "collectibles tax" is a misnomer, as it implies a separate tax on top of what you'd normally owe.
Why should I be not surprised that "gem" creator Tyler also uses words precisely and correctly??!!

MISNOMER!

I am putting you all on notice. Pay attention the next times you hear someone say this word. More times than not they use it incorrectly. They say it when they mean "misconception". These people are only not sports related people (generally not the most intellectual or highly educated in our society) but, at first shocking to me, the highly educated also!


Vinny
Ah, Vinny. The grammar, punctuation, typos and misuse of parenthetical clauses in this post are downright painful.
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vnatale
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Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:27 pm

Tyler wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:09 am

ochotona wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:59 am

Oh yeah any IRA is good for gold because you avoid the Collectibles Tax.


I've always thought "collectibles tax" is a misnomer, as it implies a separate tax on top of what you'd normally owe. However, gains from gold are taxed as ordinary income at whatever tax bracket you fall in but with preferential treatment that the tax is capped at 28%. You also have control over when and how much you need to sell. Compare that to bond interest that is also taxed as ordinary income but with no such cap and no choice but to pay it every year.

In any case, I've personally come to the conclusion that the simplicity, predictability, and flexibility of just having separate complete portfolios in each account more than makes up for any theoretical tax savings from over-thinking where to store every last penny. But obviously YMMV.


I think that this is something I could live with and would achieve the proper balance for me for doing something that makes sense and ending the endless research / thinking I would continue to do to come up with that ever elusive optimal solution.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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