The Lively HSA

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ochotona
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The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:10 pm

I have applied for a new HSA from Lively. Our company is changing to a high investment fee HSA (40 basis pts), so I'm going to transfer cash out of it to Lively every couple months. Looks really nice, broker is TD Ameritrade.
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ochotona
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:40 pm

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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:25 pm

Yes it's terrible to slowly bleed out cash.
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sophie
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:50 am

Looks like only a slight advantage to me - Lively doesn't require you to hold $5,000 in a ridiculously low interest cash account, but they also charge $2.50/month for the TDA account. The win is all about the potential earnings on the $5,000 exceeding the TDA fees.

Pugchief I'd be interested to know what the move from HSA Bank to Lively entails. If it means selling investments, transferring back to HSA Bank, waiting the usual ~2 months for the transfer, getting a new TDA account etc, then I would consider it not worth the bother.
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ochotona
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:59 am

sophie wrote:Looks like only a slight advantage to me - Lively doesn't require you to hold $5,000 in a ridiculously low interest cash account, but they also charge $2.50/month for the TDA account. The win is all about the potential earnings on the $5,000 exceeding the TDA fees.

Pugchief I'd be interested to know what the move from HSA Bank to Lively entails. If it means selling investments, transferring back to HSA Bank, waiting the usual ~2 months for the transfer, getting a new TDA account etc, then I would consider it not worth the bother.
I just downloaded the HSA Bank fee schedule, and they do nickel and dime you to death. Having to maintain a $5,000 balance to avoid investment and HSA fees really amount to about $8 per month equivalent charge. Nein Danke
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sophie
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:09 pm

Thanks MangoMan. Still worried about stashing my HSA money with a website startup...are you concerned at all about that?

Meanwhile though...I'd reflexively kept the $5K cash at HSA bank - even more, from back when it was $6000 and they were jacking it up every year to catch you on fees. definitely will rethink that. Their CS and clunky website both leave much to be desired which is more reason to jump ship.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:31 pm

sophie wrote:Thanks MangoMan. Still worried about stashing my HSA money with a website startup...are you concerned at all about that?
The financial institution behind Lively is Choice Financial, a member of FDIC, from what I glean from my transfer form. Then my investments will be at TDAmeritrade.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:43 pm

These HSA providers seem to cluster in MN, ND, and WI. Haven't seen any from TX.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by foglifter » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:00 am

I've moved my HSA from HSA Bank to Lively in January and can confirm all the positive feedback MangoMan shared. Lively is located in San Francisco and the phone/email support is excellent. They are working to make their already great website even more functional to simplify transfers that involve brokerage accounts. I won't repeat what MangoMan already said, just wanted to emphasize one point: for those moving from HSA Bank the process begins with TDA account opening, then you submit to Lively a TDA transfer form that includes the account titles for your HSA TDA account and the new Lively TDA account. TDA acts pretty quickly, I think within a few days my account positions were moved in-kind. Here's the crucial point: you start the core account transfer AFTER you have verified that the TDA account transfer had been completed. I guess otherwise HSA Bank will liquidate your TDA account and you won't be able to do an in-kind transfer.

Also, Lively deducts $2.50 monthly from my bank account, not from my Lively HSA account. So you can actually keep a zero balance at your HSA account.

So far I am pleased with the customer service and the website functionality. I think Lively got into HSA business at the right time as many people who use HSAs for investing and/or retirement savings probably amassed decent balances after 10+ years since HSAs were introduced and from the business perspective offering HSAs becomes profitable.

My payroll contributions go into my employer-based Optum Bank HSA. :( I wish I could have them sent directly to Lively but our payroll provider doesn't allow that. So the plan is to do a partial transfer to Lively once or twice a year. Optum said they only charge account closing fee, but the partial outbound transfers are free.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:37 pm

The funds came over fast from my old HSA. Moving the cash from Lively HSA to TD Ameritrade was an overnight process. Today I re-established my prior position. I'm glad I did all that. The $2.50 per month investment fee will come out of checking, not the HSA, which I prefer.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:22 pm

Just started the process to flip from HSA Bank to Lively. I am amazed at how easy and logical the process is, so far! Even if Lively's fees matched that of HSA Bank, it would still be worth it to make the move for the website & customer service alone.

Having forgotten foglifter's warning, I gave them the info for trustee to trustee transfer during the signup process. I guess it will be a bit of a race to do the TDA account in-kind transfer before HSA Bank gets around to liquidating my account. I suspect Lively will win the race - it's always been about a 2 month ordeal (including several phone calls) to move funds from my employer account at Optum to HSA Bank. I'm not sure which of those is more dysfunctional.

I'm wondering if saving the 1.45% medicare tax is worth having to deal with Optum, not to mention delaying HSA contributions when I could just put everything in at the beginning of the year and get a big jump on tax savings.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:11 pm

Thanks MangoMan. I haven't gotten to the the in-kind transfer form yet - need for them to finish account setup on their end. It's been very fast and efficient so far.

I wonder if HSA Bank has noticed where all these transfers are going. Lively is going to eat their lunch unless they lower their fees and improve customer service.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:34 pm

Please don't give up thousands of dollars in Medicare tax savings Sophie!
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:02 pm

ochotona wrote:Please don't give up thousands of dollars in Medicare tax savings Sophie!
Thousands? am I missing something? I thought Medicare tax on $4450 at my income level is $64.25 (1.45%). It should work out better to invest everything straight away in January, instead of waiting for a year to transfer over the money collected from 12 months of paycheck deductions. Which is enough of a PITA that it's actually worth paying $64 not to do it.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:02 pm

You're right what was I thinking?
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:51 am

The TDA funds just transferred to my new Lively investment account. It took about a week, but has handily beat the cash rollover from HSA Bank (not showed up yet and I don't expect it for another few weeks at least).

I've noticed trouble logging into Lively - it's very slow and a couple of times I wasn't able to get in at all. I wonder if their site is overwhelmed by all the transfers they're getting. Anyone else noticed this?
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:11 am

sophie wrote:The TDA funds just transferred to my new Lively investment account. It took about a week, but has handily beat the cash rollover from HSA Bank (not showed up yet and I don't expect it for another few weeks at least).

I've noticed trouble logging into Lively - it's very slow and a couple of times I wasn't able to get in at all. I wonder if their site is overwhelmed by all the transfers they're getting. Anyone else noticed this?
I noticed a little bit of lag last week, but right now, none at all.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:15 pm

The US government just lowered the 2018 HSA contribution limit by $50, because of chained CPI. Don't contribute as much as you thought you could, or else you will face a penalty.

https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/ ... limit.aspx
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am

Lively HSA / TD Ameritrade doesn't gave free gold ETFs, but it does trade for free DBA, the agricultural commodity ETF. That one has been pummeled into the mud. Might be bottoming.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:39 pm

As a public service announcement: DBA is not a substitute for gold.

Two of the three funds I hold at TD Ameritrade are not commission free (VTI and IAU). I trade rarely enough in the HSA that I don't worry too much about this - except it does make me less likely to want to split up new contributions into the 4 allocations; I'm choosing to buy the lagging asset instead so I only have to pay one fee instead of 3.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:14 pm

sophie wrote:As a public service announcement: DBA is not a substitute for gold.

Two of the three funds I hold at TD Ameritrade are not commission free (VTI and IAU). I trade rarely enough in the HSA that I don't worry too much about this - except it does make me less likely to want to split up new contributions into the 4 allocations; I'm choosing to buy the lagging asset instead so I only have to pay one fee instead of 3.
I understand it not being gold, it just seems like an interesting asset class. Crops are bountiful because of a multiyear string of good weather, and required energy inputs are cheap. Those conditions won't last forever.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:27 am

My DiscoverBenefits old HSA came over within two weeks. You might have to use the source custodian's forms, not Lively's forms. I had to do that.

I am now waiting for my final $600 to move over.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by sophie » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:44 am

My HSA Bank cash account funds came through last week. If you're also with HSA Bank you might want to call them. You started this before I did and it seems odd that yours is still held up - something must be wrong.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 pm

Money is sticky isn't it.
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Re: The Lively HSA

Post by ochotona » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Old HSA to Lively in 10 days.
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