Gyroscopic Investing

Dear friends,

I am not good convincing others.

Anyone of you, have already convinced a friend or parent to use HB-PP?

How shall I do it with saying, you have to read the book...

... the book is not in our language.

Thank you for your tips!

Show them PP performance on portfoliocharts.com, which can translate into any language. Esta disponivel em portugues

I would never try to convince anyone to use the HB-PP or any other portfolio. If things go wrong, I don't want to be responsible. I will tell people about the success I've had with it but I always give the warning that past performance does not predict future results if they are thinking about using it.

Refer them to Tyler's portfolio charts website and let them check it out for themselves. Then answer questions if they have any.

I agree with farjean. A person's retirement savings is about as sacrosanct as it gets and it has to be their decision.

In my time publishing portfolio data, I've had the opportunity to talk about investing with a bunch of different types of people. The experience has taught me a lot about how to effectively discuss money with others.

In general, trying to convince somebody to invest in a certain way is completely counter-productive. The moment you come across as a salesman, many rational people will immediately tune you out or start picking you apart. Just keep in mind that this reaction is a good thing! It helps protect people from getting scammed, which sadly is all too common in the financial industry. It's also important to realize that different people have different personalities, and pairing the wrong person to the wrong portfolio (like forcing someone who hates gold to invest in the PP) likely won't help them (or you) in the long run if they feel inclined to sell the first time gold drops while screaming "I told you so!"

In my experience, the best approach is to explain the benefits of simple, low-cost index investing and then point them to information that will help them select a strategy that resonates with them personally. That's basically in a nutshell why I made Portfolio Charts. One of the things I personally like to focus on is the idea of uncertainty and downside management, as losing money is a fear that everyone deals with but too few investing "experts" address particularly well. Help people understand how asset allocation can address their investing fears while still meeting their financial needs, and suddenly things like the PP make perfect sense.

But not everyone will see it the same way, and that's fine. Don't waste your life energy trying to convince people. Just openly share your perspective along with the evidence to back it up, and eventually you'll make a difference somewhere. And when you fail to convince in words, just lead by example. People do notice when someone has their financial act together, and once they eventually ask for your advice you'll be in a much better position to teach.

sophie wrote:Refer them to Tyler's portfolio charts website and let them check it out for themselves. Then answer questions if they have any.

I agree with farjean. A person's retirement savings is about as sacrosanct as it gets and it has to be their decision.

farjean2 wrote:I would never try to convince anyone to use the HB-PP or any other portfolio. If things go wrong, I don't want to be responsible. I will tell people about the success I've had with it but I always give the warning that past performance does not predict future results if they are thinking about using it.

Tyler wrote:In my time publishing portfolio data, I've had the opportunity to talk about investing with a bunch of different types of people. The experience has taught me a lot about how to effectively discuss money with others.

In general, trying to convince somebody to invest in a certain way is completely counter-productive. The moment you come across as a salesman, many rational people will immediately tune you out or start picking you apart. Just keep in mind that this reaction is a good thing! It helps protect people from getting scammed, which sadly is all too common in the financial industry. It's also important to realize that different people have different personalities, and pairing the wrong person to the wrong portfolio (like forcing someone who hates gold to invest in the PP) likely won't help them (or you) in the long run if they feel inclined to sell the first time gold drops while screaming "I told you so!"

In my experience, the best approach is to explain the benefits of simple, low-cost index investing and then point them to information that will help them select a strategy that resonates with them personally. That's basically in a nutshell why I made Portfolio Charts. One of the things I personally like to focus on is the idea of uncertainty and downside management, as losing money is a fear that everyone deals with but too few investing "experts" address particularly well. Help people understand how asset allocation can address their investing fears while still meeting their financial needs, and suddenly things like the PP make perfect sense.

But not everyone will see it the same way, and that's fine. Don't waste your life energy trying to convince people. Just openly share your perspective along with the evidence to back it up, and eventually you'll make a difference somewhere. And when you fail to convince in words, just lead by example. People do notice when someone has their financial act together, and once they eventually ask for your advice you'll be in a much better position to teach.

Hi !

What a great honor to have your answers.

I agree with all you.

PP is the best portfolio. It is better than CD's. Lowest DD... returns above inflation ... correct?

Now, my advice is to be made to my brothers, not for my neighbors. I think I should spread the word inside the family.

Am I right? Never this happened to you?

Regards

frugal wrote: Now, my advice is to be made to my brothers, not for my neighbors. I think I should spread the word inside the family.

Am I right? Never this happened to you?

Several years ago I gave copies of "Fail Safe Investing" to both of my brothers and also my brother-in-law. The last time I checked, none of them ever opened it.

In retrospect, they were all in different places in life. One brother was doing well for himself and saving in his 401k but spending most of the rest as it came in. The other brother was learning how to start a career and support a family and investing was the last thing on his mind. And the BIL was an active options trader who was doing well at it and thought passive trading was for chumps. So I didn't really push it. I just offered that when any of them ever wanted to talk about investing I'd be happy to help.

Fast forward a few years, and the first brother came to me when he finally set up a taxable investment account and wanted to know how I invest. That went well. The BIL came to me asking how I manage to pay all the bills with such a hands-off portfolio without a full time job or the stress of day trading. I'm not sure he's convinced yet, but that definitely opened the door. The last brother is more in the learning-how-to-save mode rather than the learning-how-to-invest mode, and I'm happy to help with that as well.

Basically, the best way to evangelize is set a good example, cater the message to your audience, and know when to stop talking and start listening.

I agree with the others here that a hands-off approach is best.

As much as I'd like to help everyone I know, it's important to remember that most people don't like to be told what to do. Even making a subtle implication that they're not handling their finances efficiently will be met with a defensive attitude. I've tried to broach this topic with people I see struggling and it's just never received well. Maybe I'm poor at my approach, but I think it's more that people have pride.

Lead by example. Some will ask you "How do you do it?" Those are the ones ready to learn something.

Tyler wrote:

frugal wrote: Now, my advice is to be made to my brothers, not for my neighbors. I think I should spread the word inside the family.

Am I right? Never this happened to you?

Several years ago I gave copies of "Fail Safe Investing" to both of my brothers and also my brother-in-law. The last time I checked, none of them ever opened it.

In retrospect, they were all in different places in life. One brother was doing well for himself and saving in his 401k but spending most of the rest as it came in. The other brother was learning how to start a career and support a family and investing was the last thing on his mind. And the BIL was an active options trader who was doing well at it and thought passive trading was for chumps. So I didn't really push it. I just offered that when any of them ever wanted to talk about investing I'd be happy to help.

Fast forward a few years, and the first brother came to me when he finally set up a taxable investment account and wanted to know how I invest. That went well. The BIL came to me asking how I manage to pay all the bills with such a hands-off portfolio without a full time job or the stress of day trading. I'm not sure he's convinced yet, but that definitely opened the door. The last brother is more in the learning-how-to-save mode rather than the learning-how-to-invest mode, and I'm happy to help with that as well.

Basically, the best way to evangelize is set a good example, cater the message to your audience, and know when to stop talking and start listening.

I did the same with my 2 sisters. And they also didn't opened it.
But they have deceided to put some money in an investment portfolio managed by a bank. For them, financial alaphets, it is the most simple way to invest.
So never try to convince,that is useless but wait for being asked for some advise.

You Can't convince ANYONE!

https://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/v ... eves+in+PP

The PP is a difficult portfolio to hold as it contains three volatile assets. Just look at the angst on this board when bonds or gold are taking a drubbing. Most people hold stocks and shorter duration bonds and only ever worry about the stock market. Even then, they have plenty of company when stocks tank.

For the most part, the PP has to be something that people discover on their own after taking a beating investing in more conventional ways.

Thomas Hoog wrote:

Tyler wrote:

frugal wrote: Now, my advice is to be made to my brothers, not for my neighbors. I think I should spread the word inside the family.

Am I right? Never this happened to you?

Several years ago I gave copies of "Fail Safe Investing" to both of my brothers and also my brother-in-law. The last time I checked, none of them ever opened it.

In retrospect, they were all in different places in life. One brother was doing well for himself and saving in his 401k but spending most of the rest as it came in. The other brother was learning how to start a career and support a family and investing was the last thing on his mind. And the BIL was an active options trader who was doing well at it and thought passive trading was for chumps. So I didn't really push it. I just offered that when any of them ever wanted to talk about investing I'd be happy to help.

Fast forward a few years, and the first brother came to me when he finally set up a taxable investment account and wanted to know how I invest. That went well. The BIL came to me asking how I manage to pay all the bills with such a hands-off portfolio without a full time job or the stress of day trading. I'm not sure he's convinced yet, but that definitely opened the door. The last brother is more in the learning-how-to-save mode rather than the learning-how-to-invest mode, and I'm happy to help with that as well.

Basically, the best way to evangelize is set a good example, cater the message to your audience, and know when to stop talking and start listening.

I did the same with my 2 sisters. And they also didn't opened it.
But they have deceided to put some money in an investment portfolio managed by a bank. For them, financial alaphets, it is the most simple way to invest.
So never try to convince,that is useless but wait for being asked for some advise.

Hi,

How did you try to convince?

The cash at the bank give them almost 0% ?

Regards!

barrett wrote:The PP is a difficult portfolio to hold as it contains three volatile assets. Just look at the angst on this board when bonds or gold are taking a drubbing. Most people hold stocks and shorter duration bonds and only ever worry about the stock market. Even then, they have plenty of company when stocks tank.

For the most part, the PP has to be something that people discover on their own after taking a beating investing in more conventional ways.

people doesn't search for lazy portfolios

probably only "stockmarket" strategies

even they think that active investing by banks is better

Frugal, sounds like your first battle is to enlighten your friends about passive vs. active investing. That's hard enough to do without adding the complication of the PP.

There are lots of resources for this - check the Bogleheads wiki, which may include some in your language, as well as Harry Browne's book "Why the Best-Laid Investment Plans Usually Go Wrong". That's a wonderful and thorough debunking of many active investing strategies, including ones being discussed on this forum. Some of that material is also in the radio shows, which are easy to take in.

One thing you could suggest to them is to buy an index fund alongside their stock holdings, and to compare the returns over time. I remember when I discovered that the index fund handily beat my stockpicking strategy - for which I'd been congratulating myself on its success. It was a watershed moment for me.

sophie wrote:Frugal, sounds like your first battle is to enlighten your friends about passive vs. active investing. That's hard enough to do without adding the complication of the PP.

There are lots of resources for this - check the Bogleheads wiki, which may include some in your language, as well as Harry Browne's book "Why the Best-Laid Investment Plans Usually Go Wrong". That's a wonderful and thorough debunking of many active investing strategies, including ones being discussed on this forum. Some of that material is also in the radio shows, which are easy to take in.

One thing you could suggest to them is to buy an index fund alongside their stock holdings, and to compare the returns over time. I remember when I discovered that the index fund handily beat my stockpicking strategy - for which I'd been congratulating myself on its success. It was a watershed moment for me.

Hi S!

People will ever believe more in the bank strategies than in me...

The most effective strategy, I've found, is to be secretive and mysterious about my investment style and strategy.

If the subject comes up, I'll say cryptic things like, "I do things a little differently, let's just say", "I'm unconventional," or, "I don't run with the herd" and leave it at that. If they take the bait and chase me, then I slowly dole out cookie clues until finally they back me into a corner and frustratingly demand that I tell them what my strategy is... at which point I introduce them formally to HBPP.

Ya, I'm basically an investment coquette.

blue_ruin17 wrote:The most effective strategy, I've found, is to be secretive and mysterious about my investment style and strategy.

If the subject comes up, I'll say cryptic things like, "I do things a little differently, let's just say", "I'm unconventional," or, "I don't run with the herd" and leave it at that. If they take the bait and chase me, then I slowly dole out cookie clues until finally they back me into a corner and frustratingly demand that I tell them what my strategy is... at which point I introduce them formally to HBPP.

Ya, I'm basically an investment coquette.

That is a good way.

And with your parents savings, what do you do?

Regards

I wrote to my brother-in-law about it once in the context of running it by him, letting him vet it for me rather than trying to convince him. He's more of a stock guy, an aggressive investor. (Turns out he's aggressive in general and has gone of the deep end, so if I ever stop posting here you should assume he wiped me out with the rest of my family. Ahem). He was turned off by a perceived limited upside.

farjean2 wrote:I would never try to convince anyone to use the HB-PP or any other portfolio. If things go wrong, I don't want to be responsible.

+1. I talk about the individual assets with certain friends and it seems that gold bugs can't be reigned in while non-gold investors are very hesitant about taking the plunge. I don't want to get someone into gold and then hear regular complaints about it not going up. "Are we there yet?" I hear that enough on this forum, haha.

And, dare I say it, I'm not fully convinced myself. If I were, I'd go full pp. I'm quite content having the "money I cannot afford to lose" in the pp. But, like a lot of people, I feel a strong compulsion to throw a lot of money into stocks just as soon as it crashes again. (I know, know. You don't need to tell me).

Very true that direct discussion won't accomplish nearly as much as a direct demo. Look what happened to me - I went through a pretty terrible loss after accepting the advice of a trusted broker, and even then it was a while before I finally forsook stock picking for good. My brother, for example, was convinced that his only real chance to get ahead financially was to win big by playing stocks. I opened a 529 account for his kids and set it for a passive investing strategy, then promised to match his contributions to it.

He watched the account grow over several years, during which time he continued playing stocks. Finally, he called me one day to say he'd had enough of the stock-picking game, could see it was never going to work and was taking too much of his time and attention that would be better spent growing his business, and could I help him switch to passive investing. Score!!!!