Scott Burns' Co on the PP

[dualstow]

The Boomers were enviably lucky in many ways, but this is different than saying that we are hurting because of the Boomers.
Which do you mean?

[Reub]

MG, you've got to quit feeling sorry for yourself. You sound like one of Obama's/Hillary's/Bernie's sheeples.

[MachineGhost]

The Boomers were enviably lucky in many ways, but this is different than saying that we are hurting because of the Boomers.
Which do you mean?

Last I checked, its the Baby Boomer's and their policies that are all over government? It's that selfish, entitlement mentality primarily, best exemplified by Slick Hilly. The 60's was the equivalent of giving women the right to vote in the 20's, only much, much, much worse. So here we are.

[MachineGhost]

What are you blathering about? I grew up poor during Viet Nam and the stagflation of the 70's. My parents sacrificed mightily to put myself and my 2 siblings through college and grad school, where we all worked our asses off to get a leg up. We lived well below our means in adulthood to make better lives for our children. Quit whining. Every generation has its own set of difficulties.

I'm not whining per se, just pointing out who is responsible for the economic and politcal mess we're currently in. Part of the Baby Boomer shtick is not taking responsibility, or haven't you noticed? I don't have much faith of a corrective U-turn without a crisis because that is just human nature. But Baby Boomers are anything if not egotistically stubborn about their way or the highway.

Don't get me wrong, I have even worse concerns about Generation Y & Z. There is no way we're going to survive with our American values intact without a huge reset that forces everyone to refocus on what really matters instead of stupid, banal shit like Pokemon Go.

[MachineGhost]

MG, you've got to quit feeling sorry for yourself. You sound like one of Obama's/Hillary's/Bernie's sheeples.

I can have a pity party now and then to vent some steam. Want some tea with your crumpets?

[curlew]

The Baby Boomers didn't have to wait to do that. They got everything handed to them as they went along in life.

Our employment situation was admittedly much better, at least compared to the current generation (we only had to compete against Smith and Jones, not Patel and Kapur). But other than that, I'm not even going there.

[MachineGhost]

The Baby Boomers didn't have to wait to do that. They got everything handed to them as they went along in life.

Our employment situation was admittedly much better, at least compared to the current generation (we only had to compete against Smith and Jones, not Patel and Kapur). But other than that, I'm not even going there.

Well, in our current capitalist world, employment is everything, so being underemployed or unemployed completely derails the American Dream that your generation was able to take full advantage of without having to really try.

And seriously, higher levels of tech gadgets to make us all lazier and more hedonistic is really not an "improvement". It's just more self-indulgance, which admittedly, the Baby Boomers pioneered as well.

I'll go back into the corner and put on my dunce cap now!

[barrett]

MG, Just jumping in to say that if you are really saving 50% of your income, you may not need great investment returns. That is a great savings rate. A vehicle for growing them modestly in real terms should do the trick, especially because you don't seem like the kind of guy who needs a lot of luxury. And can't you sell CA real estate (not sure if you own) at some point and go live somewhere cheaper?

As a baby boomer myself, I am grateful that the awesome economy of 1982 to 2000 (2007?) at least partly coincided with my career. But didn't you get at least part of that benefit as well?

[Reub]

If he stopped buying supplements he'd be saving 99% of his income with the way that he eats.

[curlew]

And seriously, higher levels of tech gadgets to make us all lazier and more hedonistic is really not an "improvement". It's just more self-indulgance, which admittedly, the Baby Boomers pioneered as well.

I'll go back into the corner and put on my dunce cap now!

Since you enjoy generation bashing (personally I think there is probably a kernel of truth just like with most stereotypes but usually way overblown), try this on .....

why-gen-x-doesnt-get-millennialsor-boomers
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/go ... or-boomers

A couple of quotes you probably won't like....

Some writers have gone so far as to put most of the blame for the economic downturn on Gen-X shoulders: Greg Smith, a senior executive at Goldman Sachs, blamed the meltdown of the financial industry to the toxic Generation-X culture that was prevalent at Goldman.

The largest percentage of households in foreclosure belonged to those in Generation X—in particular, Gen-Xers who had high average household income ($59,500) and years of education (14.8 years). It seems counter intuitive that a well-educated and affluent group of families would lead the foreclosure charge. Yet this group of households made up more than one in 10 foreclosures. How do affluent families end up in foreclosure?

[MachineGhost]

MG, Just jumping in to say that if you are really saving 50% of your income, you may not need great investment returns. That is a great savings rate. A vehicle for growing them modestly in real terms should do the trick, especially because you don't seem like the kind of guy who needs a lot of luxury. And can't you sell CA real estate (not sure if you own) at some point and go live somewhere cheaper?

As a baby boomer myself, I am grateful that the awesome economy of 1982 to 2000 (2007?) at least partly coincided with my career. But didn't you get at least part of that benefit as well?

Yes and no (nothing lasting).

[MachineGhost]

If he stopped buying supplements he'd be saving 99% of his income with the way that he eats.

That's probably true! But, whats the point of money unless you spend it to improve your quality of life?** I don't want to turn into a typical 70+ year old that neglects his health and lives a deadly lifestyle. Misery may love company and social signaling delusions, but I think I have a little more self-respect than that.

** Stuffing your piehole with glutinous abandon so you develop a pregnant look and diabetes, etc. is not improving your quality of life. All food is software and all software has long-term consequences. You can fool yourself up until that point you come down with a deadly disease from being a fucking idiot. Being truly wise isn't limited to just finances.

[MachineGhost]

why-gen-x-doesnt-get-millennialsor-boomers
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/go ... or-boomers

Pretty interesting, but inccurate. I think the writer is just self-justifying her generation. Baby Boomers are currently the most materialistic generation the world has ever seen. America is not essentially a giant shopping mall monoculture without that generation solely driving it. Attributing materialism to Gen-X (or even Millennials) who can't even participate to the full extent that the Baby Boomers did, rings hollow. I'll entertain that maybe Gen-X suffer from Baby Boomer envy as a result of dramatically less opportunity, but Millennials realized the futility of their position altogether and became what the Baby Boomers must deludedly think themselves are. For the record, I have much more in common with Millennial thinking than Baby Boomers or whatever passes for Gen-X and I attribute that due to growing up completely infused with PC and Internet technology (as a very early adopter) which the latter two generations did not en masse. The anarchy and freedom of creative self-expression just makes you much, much more liberal and open minded. By way of example, I would get along best with PS on here than anyone else.

Millennials don't distrust authorities, as we did. Maybe that’s because the Boomers are now the authorities, and we’ve worked hard to keep their trust.

That would be very provocative if actually true, but I doubt that is accurate either. For one thing, Baby Boomers breeded Gen-X, not the Millennials. Gen-X breeded the Millennials. So if the writer got that basic data incorrect... But there may be overlap between the Boomers and Gen-X for Millennials just as there was between Swing and Boomers for Gen-X.

BTW, Millennials were generally born from 1980 to 2000. The oldest is now 36 year old. All the kids and teeny boppers you see nowadays are Gen Z.

[curlew]

Baby Boomers are currently the most materialistic generation the world has ever seen.

That's pretty funny because it is the exact same thing the Baby Boomers were saying about their parents, while they "dropped-out, tuned-in, and turned on".

It may be that we were a bunch of selfish, spoiled brats demanding our own way but at least we managed to do something with our narcissism that no generation before or after has yet accomplished - getting the American Empire to withdraw from a war due to dissent at home. I'm a Vietnam vet myself but I would like to see a memorial on the mall in D.C. beside the Vietnam memorial to all the pot-smoking hippies who did their part.

(I think we are getting way off topic and maybe better give it a rest, at least in this thread).

[Dieter]

MG, Just jumping in to say that if you are really saving 50% of your income, you may not need great investment returns. That is a great savings rate. A vehicle for growing them modestly in real terms should do the trick, especially because you don't seem like the kind of guy who needs a lot of luxury. And can't you sell CA real estate (not sure if you own) at some point and go live somewhere cheaper?

As a baby boomer myself, I am grateful that the awesome economy of 1982 to 2000 (2007?) at least partly coincided with my career. But didn't you get at least part of that benefit as well?

As an older (but not oldest) X.... (depending on source, GenXers were born between 65 and 84.)

Any money made before graduating college (early 90's) paid for college / living expenses. And remember, even back than we paid a lot more for college than prior generations, minimum wage hadn't kept up with inflation (I believe), and had higher FICA taxes as of 83/84.

So no investing in the 80's or first couple years of the 90's.

Career started (~$30K) at the tail end of a recession in ~92. I lived relatively cheaply -- started saving ~9% for retirement (~$2.7k!) ; plus saved for other things needed / desired (house down payment, car, furniture, etc.)

By the end of the decade was making more than the Social Security cut-off point. House bought (even then was scary given the runup for years....) Married (non-working spouse -- bad decision financially), children.

So, yeah, I got to buy a bit in the go-go 90's, but I bought a lot more at the highs of the later years. Allocation somewhere between 80/20 and 60/40 (hadn't heard of the PP; Gold was for losers, everyone said it's a new economy / stocks only go up....

Then lost job due to the crash -- unemployed for around half a year, took loan from family to help.

A large pay cut when I finally got my next job.

Didn't do any retirement investing during the lows (I think I rebalanced, but don't remember.)

Finally restarted retirement saving in 2004 when salary had crept up and loans paid off.

Then 2008.... Luckily didn't lose my job and kept investing, but did get a pay cut. State of the economy put off hunting for a new job. While at least partially my fault, still not above the SS cutoff, so making less (real) than in the late 90's.

The majority of Xers are younger than I, so paid more for college, bought later into the housing boom, higher markets at start of their investment careers, 9/11 & Dot Bomb crash earlier in (or before start of) their career, the Great Recession, ....

Having even 50k to 100k in 82 or 92 to invest (in almost anything) sounds like a fairytale of riches.

[MachineGhost]

That's pretty funny because it is the exact same thing the Baby Boomers were saying about their parents, while they "dropped-out, tuned-in, and turned on".

I suspect there is an inverse relationship between being impoverished and materialism. Even though relatively poor or lower class all her life during a time of increasing abundance (at least post-WWII), my Gma (Swing) was still ridiculously brand conscious and was a bit of a hoarder of cook books and especially fabrics (she had to literally make her own clothes, but even long after she was not able).

So logically, the Millennials and Gen Z who have not experienced poverty or hardship like the previous generations as they are sheltered from it by their Gen-X/Millennial parents, will naturally act entitled the most and thus not have much or any of an impetus towards materialism. We shall see.

I also suspect environment plays a more powerful role in shaping our development than any of us wants to admit.

[MachineGhost]

The majority of Xers are younger than I, so paid more for college, bought later into the housing boom, higher markets at start of their investment careers, 9/11 & Dot Bomb crash earlier in (or before start of) their career, the Great Recession, ....

Having even 50k to 100k in 82 or 92 to invest (in almost anything) sounds like a fairytale of riches.

You sure hit the nail on the head! Probably explains why I'm so into market timing. I've never known a bull market that was not ever an overvalued bubble. And who was and still is driving that bubble? It can't be our generation because we're the cynics about everything.

[blue_ruin17]

How do we know these distorted assets will continue to work in their expected fashion during such historically unprecedented circumstances? I would like to be fully invested in the PP by the end of the year, but frankly, we're purely speculating on the USA to be the last harbor in the storm. What happens when that harbor too goes bellyup? I don't want to suffer like iceland or Argentina and lose 75% of my wealth and still wind up with a loss if only because there's not enough gold to offset the other three assets imploding.

In the event that your equities and government securities positions are wiped out, the 25% gold allocation will do so damn well that you may actually come out ahead with a net-gain. The equities and bonds can only go to zero, but there is no cap on how much the remaining 25% gold can appreciate (which would be a lot in the event of an equity & bond holocaust)

[murphy_p_t]

this interview makes similiar argument that MG makes regards generational investing opportunity
http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/ ... ver-price/

[MachineGhost]

this interview makes similiar argument that MG makes regards generational investing opportunity
http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/ ... ver-price/

Dr. Doom's been preaching that at least since 2009. Pay no attention. By that I mean such perma-bears are useless for timing.

[MediumTex]

When the PP book first came out (almost 4 years ago!), Scott Burns and I exchanged a few emails and he was very kind and supportive of our work.

Scott Burns is a great guy. I started reading his column in the '80s and he influenced my thinking about investing a lot.