PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

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mathjak107
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:42 pm

i think we all get your  point and no need to chastise them  they only brought folks an education on it ..  after all no one should make investments or stay in investments they think are not meeting goals .

the concept of the  pp was fine for decades . it was never a growth vehicle , it was a positive real return vehicle and it did just that .

but anyone who thinks anything works forever as the world changes without seeing if it is still up to par and makes sense  is the problem not the fact they are not hand holding or running a support group .


they introduced you to someone else s strategy  and gave you an education on it . that does not mean the world will not change an make it no longer work in the manner it was designed .

in fact it is only my opinion that it no longer works well .
Last edited by mathjak107 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drumminj
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by drumminj » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:45 pm

Reub wrote: After all, they created this website and persuaded most of us to invest in this manner. I just feel that for the two of them to disappear literally for months at a time when the PP has gone absolutely nowhere for 3 years and has returned  100+% less than stocks since 2009 borders on negligence.
Yikes.  Perhaps I'm mis-reading your tone (and a few folks seem to express this expectation), but what is it that Craig or Tex owe you?  Did they say "Reub, you should be in the PP!!!".  I'm guessing no -- you *chose* to allocate your investments in the PP, based on input you surely got from several sources - BH, here, books, etc. But it was your choice!

If anyone who expresses an opinion you choose to incorporate into your own world-view is guilty of negligence due to not continually defending that opinion (for the rest of their life?), then why would anyone ever express an opinion?

I read the massive BH thread. I've read Craig and Tex's book.  I've read HB's books.  No one owes me anything though -- I made the choice on my own to allocate my funds this way.  I bought into the thinking and arguments, and determined they made sense to me.  If they don't work out, it's my own judgement/decision to blame -- not the folks simply expressing their personal opinions.

If you want someone to make the decisions for you that you can blame after the fact, hand your funds to a money manager and pay their fees.  You can at least claim they have a fiduciary responsibility to you!!!
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sophie
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by sophie » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:50 pm

I don't know about you, but they didn't persuade me.  I gathered all the info available, examined asset performance charts, and made my own decision.  No one should choose an investment plan based on someone else's opinion.  Unfortunately I learned that the hard way in 1999, when I ended up losing about $100K in retirement funds.  And then like a completely pig-headed idiot, I got a refresher course when I bought a stock at my Wall Street uncle's urging, and lost about $20K.

In comparison to those experiences, 3 years with only small gains evokes little more than mild disappointment.  Not to mention that I'm loving being totally immune to the panicked-sounding headlines, and about as insured as I'll ever be against the big losses that can really wipe you out.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." -- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by Reub » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:52 pm

They owe me nothing. And vice versa.  But they did go well out of their way to start a massive thread on the BH site. They convinced many Bogleheads to change their investment strategy. They did write a book promoting this strategy. And then for the most part they went away. I just wonder if they've lost the same zeal for the PP that caused many of us to begin investing in this way. If not, then show a little interest in your baby.
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mathjak107
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:55 pm

not sure what you want them to say . charts of what was  mean nothing when you are losing money . there is nothing they can say about the future , only the past and since conditions beyond their control may be prevailing  they really can't add much except wait and see or find something you think is better .

i know you want to hear some comforting thoughts about your choice but i don't think that solves a thing .
Last edited by mathjak107 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by sixdollars » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:59 pm

drumminj wrote:
Reub wrote: After all, they created this website and persuaded most of us to invest in this manner. I just feel that for the two of them to disappear literally for months at a time when the PP has gone absolutely nowhere for 3 years and has returned  100+% less than stocks since 2009 borders on negligence.
I read the massive BH thread. I've read Craig and Tex's book.  I've read HB's books.  No one owes me anything though -- I made the choice on my own to allocate my funds this way.  I bought into the thinking and arguments, and determined they made sense to me.  If they don't work out, it's my own judgement/decision to blame -- not the folks simply expressing their personal opinions.
+1

I truly do value the insights of both MT and Craig, but I do not see them as owing me anything at all.  Each person is responsible for their own choices, don't expect others to do your thinking for you ;)

I've never been on a PP forum during the height of a stock bull market - this has been very educational for me.  In commemoration of this long and strange thread, I have changed my signature quote.  Thank you to all for the interesting reads
"There’s nothing wrong with Harry’s portfolio—nothing at all—but there’s everything wrong with his followers, who seem, on average, to chase performance the way dogs chase cars."

-William J. Bernstein
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by AdamA » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:14 pm

Reub wrote: But they did go well out of their way to start a massive thread on the BH site. They convinced many Bogleheads to change their investment strategy. They did write a book promoting this strategy. And then for the most part they went away.
I think that's because there's just not that much to say about it. 

You can read the FAQs on Craig's blog and understand most of what you need to know.  The rest of the discussion is mostly for fun. 

I would, of course, be interested to hear if either of them saw a change in the financial universe at some point that would make them leave the PP, but I've seen nothing over the past 5 years to indicate anything like that has happened. 
Last edited by AdamA on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by Reub » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:14 pm

What irks me is why they put so much effort in promoting the PP and then just stopped.Would you have business or a relationship and run it this way?

I'm going to guess Sophie that although you're sleeping better at night with these paltry gains that you'd be sleeping on a much more comfortable and expensive mattress if you had gone the Boglehead route.
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:29 pm

wow , another pagan besides me  ha ha ha   

nio but getting back positive again may be .
Last edited by mathjak107 on Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AdamA
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by AdamA » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:32 pm

mathjak107 wrote: wow , another pagan besides me  ha ha ha 
Lol...I guess I just don't get you pagans. 

The PP's down like 3-4%...is that a big deal? 
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone."

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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by buddtholomew » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:34 pm

Reub wrote: What irks me is why they put so much effort in promoting the PP and then just stopped.Would you have business or a relationship and run it this way?

I'm going to guess Sophie that although you're sleeping better at night with these paltry gains that you'd be sleeping on a much more comfortable and expensive mattress if you had gone the Boglehead route.
I too find myself directing my disappointment towards MT and Craig as both of them advocated the PP so passionately and eloquently. We were drawn to the PP (lower volatility, comparable returns) at the most vulnerable time when 2008/9 was fresh in our minds. Unfortunately, investing in the PP around 2011 was closing the gate after the horses ran free. I feel somewhat duped.

In reality, the PP is less volatile than a more equity-centric portfolio, but there is no guarantee that you will sidestep the inevitable stock decline invested in gold or treasuries. I don't count cash as many also use this as their emergency fund.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool" --Feynman.
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Re: PSA: I now have a 3-year period with no gains

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:38 pm

AdamA wrote:
mathjak107 wrote: wow , another pagan besides me  ha ha ha 
Lol...I guess I just don't get you pagans. 

The PP's down like 3-4%...is that a big deal?
no being down 3-4% for the pp is not a big deal.

but getting back positive again with some decent gains  may be  for it ..
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