PP ....Where Did It Go

General Discussion on the Permanent Portfolio Strategy

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:13 pm

I believe I got a great engineering education at U of I.  Went from the top of my class in high school to squarely average at U of I.  Very challenging.

I do agree, that after getting that first job and experience, the name of the school you attended carries little weight (at least when I was in management interviewing people).

As for the cost of tuition, I got into the College Illinois program for 8 semesters, lump sum, in 2004, for $24,000, so tuition and fees in 2004 were roughly $6000 a year.

If I wanted to do the same lump sum right now it is over $80k.  Yes, something has to give.
But what do I know?
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by ochotona » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:24 pm

Pointedstick wrote: It's not about skipping the ivies, it's about finding a good deal. If UoT is $25k a year that doesn't seem like a great deal, but it also in the range where a student can offset a significant fraction of the cost (if not all of it) by working.
I think those days are gone, except for part-time students who will take 6 - 8 years for a Bachelor's degree.

I'm not saying Univ of Texas at $25k is a great deal, but it absolutely sets the economic floor. Univ of Houston, which gets sneered at by some, though it has come a long way, and is now Tier 1 costs.... $25k.

My son got an excellent merit-based scholarship package to Austin College in Texas, and our out-of-pocket was... $25k.

The set of all very good and excellent schools in a state that charge less than the in-state flagship public university tuition is... the empty set.

Either that, or absolutely I stink as a consumer, but ah, no.
User avatar
Desert
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:39 pm

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Desert » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Cortopassi wrote: Thanks, PS.  I graduated in 89 from Champaign with a BSEE.
Same year, BSME, then hung around for an MSME.  Go Illini. 
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at something that doesn't really matter. 
- D.L. Moody

Diversification means always having to say you're sorry.
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9729
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:40 pm

ochotona wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: It's not about skipping the ivies, it's about finding a good deal. If UoT is $25k a year that doesn't seem like a great deal, but it also in the range where a student can offset a significant fraction of the cost (if not all of it) by working.
I think those days are gone, except for part-time students who will take 6 - 8 years for a Bachelor's degree.

I'm not saying Univ of Texas at $25k is a great deal, but it absolutely sets the economic floor. Univ of Houston, which gets sneered at by some, though it has come a long way, and is now Tier 1 costs.... $25k.

My son got an excellent merit-based scholarship package to Austin College in Texas, and our out-of-pocket was... $25k.

The set of all very good and excellent schools in a state that charge less than the in-state flagship public university tuition is... the empty set.

Either that, or absolutely I stink as a consumer, but ah, no.
I just checked and UNM (University of New Mexico) is about $6.5k a year in-state. My point is that shooting for "very good and excellent" schools is falling into the trap. All schools enable you to get a "very good or excellent" education if you're willing to do your part as a student and you don't make a dramatic mistake in the selection process (e.g. attending Fashion Institute of Technology when you want to become an oil & gas engineer).

What you're buying for the more expensive schools is the reputation of "very good or excellent" which only matters in the private sector inasmuch as some schools have a direct-to-industry pipeline (e.g. attend RIT, MIT, Caltech, GT, VT, or UIUC if you want to be recruited by a silicon valley tech company). But after that, nobody really cares; it's your real-world experience that matters. Now, in academia, all this stuff is hugely crucial, but you don't want to go there anyway because it's a giant dysfunctional mess. It also matters in upper-class social circles, but like I've said, that's just social signaling. Ignore it.
Last edited by Pointedstick on Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:06 pm

Beware: Politically Incorrect Logo below.  I still proudly wear a sweatshirt with the Chief.

Great value for the education at the time in 1985.  Dorms and many buildings weren't air conditioned (how did we survive?! ::))

100% agree education is what you make of it, and to be fair, U of I had/has a great engineering/research reputation, but the TAs and profs that teach most 100/200 level classes to undergrads couldn't give a rat's ass whether the kids learned anything or not.  A select few were great, but I could count them on one hand.

Image
But what do I know?
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by ochotona » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:49 pm

Pointedstick wrote: I just checked and UNM (University of New Mexico) is about $6.5k a year in-state.
You're talking tuition. I'm talking tuition, room, and board. Two different things. Yes, if the student can live at home until college graduation, he / she can realize tremendous savings, no doubt.
User avatar
Cortopassi
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:59 pm

I was thinking a little pop up camper parked off campus somewhere...

Yeah, I knew I was going to be up for having to cover room and board but I assumed (maybe wrongly) that that went up less per year vs. tuition.  It is currently about 11k at U of I per year with a standard meal plan.

I think this is where the grandparents swoop in with gifting...
But what do I know?
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9729
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Pointedstick » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:02 pm

ochotona wrote:
Pointedstick wrote: I just checked and UNM (University of New Mexico) is about $6.5k a year in-state.
You're talking tuition. I'm talking tuition, room, and board. Two different things. Yes, if the student can live at home until college graduation, he / she can realize tremendous savings, no doubt.
"Room and board" is just housing and food costs, right? Wouldn't a non-student still have those expenses? Don't we all have those costs? I don't see why they're relevant to education. And you can live-off-campus to lower these costs to pretty low levels, too. Outside of somewhere like NYC, room and board off-campus would be cheap, right? To keep going with the UNM example, a student could (and can) easily rent a room around here for like $300/mo, and eat for $200/mo easy, likely less. $500/mo for room and board comes to another $6,000/yr, which said student would have to pay anyway even if they weren't a student and can easily afford with a part-time job. What am I missing?
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by ochotona » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:15 pm

Pointedstick wrote: "Room and board" is just housing and food costs, right? Wouldn't a non-student still have those expenses? Don't we all have those costs? I don't see why they're relevant to education. And you can live-off-campus to lower these costs to pretty low levels, too. Outside of somewhere like NYC, room and board off-campus would be cheap, right? To keep going with the UNM example, a student could (and can) easily rent a room around here for like $300/mo, and eat for $200/mo easy, likely less. $500/mo for room and board comes to another $6,000/yr, which said student would have to pay anyway even if they weren't a student and can easily afford with a part-time job. What am I missing?
You're kidding, right?  ::)

Well... as parents, we don't generally rent out our children's rooms when they go to college. So the incremental cost to us to house them through college is close to zero, as their childhood rooms are vacant anyway. They do use extra power and water, but how does one even measure that? I'm not going to meter their room.

The differences in the costs per meal for food that we cook at home as a family as compared to university food service meals are large. Last time I checked they don't want students cooking in dorm rooms on hot plates (fire safety). We spend $200 per person per month on food here at home. It would be more to eat at college.

No, you cannot just "assume that everyone has to eat and live somewhere, so you can ignore the cost of university room and board". Wow. I can't even wrap my head around how someone would arrive at that idea. It's almost as bad as "ketchup is a vegetable".

Do you have children, sir?
Last edited by ochotona on Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
pugchief
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Location: suburbs of Chicago, IL

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by pugchief » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Desert wrote:
Cortopassi wrote: Thanks, PS.  I graduated in 89 from Champaign with a BSEE.
Same year, BSME, then hung around for an MSME.  Go Illini.
"And take the Cubs and Bears with you."
UIUC Class of '80 BS Biology here.
"Congressmen should wear uniforms, you know, like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors."
User avatar
Desert
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:39 pm

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Desert » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:20 pm

Cortopassi wrote: Beware: Politically Incorrect Logo below.  I still proudly wear a sweatshirt with the Chief.

Great value for the education at the time in 1985.  Dorms and many buildings weren't air conditioned (how did we survive?! ::))

100% agree education is what you make of it, and to be fair, U of I had/has a great engineering/research reputation, but the TAs and profs that teach most 100/200 level classes to undergrads couldn't give a rat's ass whether the kids learned anything or not.  A select few were great, but I could count them on one hand.

Image
I'm deeply offended by that racist symbol.  (not really!)

Bring back the Chief! 

Can you believe Jeff George's son is now on the roster??  Makes me feel pretty old. 
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at something that doesn't really matter. 
- D.L. Moody

Diversification means always having to say you're sorry.
User avatar
Desert
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:39 pm

Re: PP ....Where Did It Go

Post by Desert » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:23 pm

pugchief wrote:
Desert wrote:
Cortopassi wrote: Thanks, PS.  I graduated in 89 from Champaign with a BSEE.
Same year, BSME, then hung around for an MSME.  Go Illini.
"And take the Cubs and Bears with you."
UIUC Class of '80 BS Biology here.
;D

Illinois is a sad state for sports these days.  What happened to the '85 Bearsss, the Jordan Bulls and the Mackovic/Lou Illini!?!  Oh, how the mighty have fallen.  I'm thinking it's all Obama's fault. 

Pugchief, at least most of your classes were on the side of Green St where all the girls were.  Cortopassi and I were over there sweltering in the TAM building with a bunch of dudes.  :)
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at something that doesn't really matter. 
- D.L. Moody

Diversification means always having to say you're sorry.
Post Reply