Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

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frugal
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by frugal » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:33 am

Ugly_Bird wrote:
frugal wrote:
Ugly_Bird wrote:
4x25 PP.
Stocks: ETF
Bonds: ETF
Gold: ETF
Cash: ETF (Short term bonds)+Checking+Savings.
hi!!!

Which ETFs?

Can you name them please.
They are spread through out several brokerage and IRA accounts

Stocks: IVV, VFIAX
Bonds: TLT, VLGSX
Gold: IAU
Cash: SHY, VFSIX , +Checking+Savings.
ahhhh

is USPP!
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by Ugly_Bird » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:42 pm

frugal wrote:
Ugly_Bird wrote:
frugal wrote: ahhhh
is USPP!
Yep!
My apology if anything I wrote misled you.
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by D.J. » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:06 am

Hi everyone, here's my portfolio I'm looking to implement in the coming weeks. I'm in EU, so it's focused on Eurozone, however with 20% of assets in/related to US.

I added symbols since I lost a ton of time looking for the right ones.

Stocks
- xTrackers MSCI EMU, EUR (XD5E) - 20%
- Vanguard US Total Stock, USD (VTI) - 5%

Bonds
- xTrackers Government Bonds 25+, EUR (DBXG) - 20%
- iShares Treasury 20+, USD (TLT) - 5% [Changed from Vanguard LT Bonds]

Gold
- xTrackers Physical Gold, EUR (XAD5) - 10%
- SPDR GLD, USD (GLD) - 5%
- Physical gold - 10%

Cash
- Amundi ETF 3m, EUR (C3M) - 20%
- iShares Short Treasury, USD (SHV) - 5%
+ cash for liquidity

Let me know your thoughts. I'm slowly losing my mind with all the options. :(
Last edited by D.J. on Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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frugal
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by frugal » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:21 am

D.J. wrote:Hi everyone, here's my portfolio I'm looking to implement in the coming weeks. I'm in EU, so it's focused on Eurozone, however with 20% of assets in/related to US.

I added symbols since I lost a ton of time looking for the right ones.

Stocks
- xTrackers MSCI EMU, EUR (XD5E) - 20%
- Vanguard US Total Stock, USD (VTI) - 5%

Bonds
- xTrackers Government Bonds 25+, EUR (DBXG) - 20%
- Vanguard LT Bonds, USD (BLV) - 5%
5
Gold
- xTrackers Physical Gold, EUR (XAD5) - 10%
- SPDR GLD, USD (GLD) - 5%
- Physical gold - 10%

Cash
- for now in two bank accounts for liquidity

Let me know your thoughts. I'm slowly losing my mind with all the options. :(
hi

why 20% in US?

Isnt is a Variable portfolio?
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by frugal » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:22 am

frugal wrote:
D.J. wrote:Hi everyone, here's my portfolio I'm looking to implement in the coming weeks. I'm in EU, so it's focused on Eurozone, however with 20% of assets in/related to US.

I added symbols since I lost a ton of time looking for the right ones.

Stocks
- xTrackers MSCI EMU, EUR (XD5E) - 20%
- Vanguard US Total Stock, USD (VTI) - 5%

Bonds
- xTrackers Government Bonds 25+, EUR (DBXG) - 20%
- Vanguard LT Bonds, USD (BLV) - 5%
5
Gold
- xTrackers Physical Gold, EUR (XAD5) - 10%
- SPDR GLD, USD (GLD) - 5%
- Physical gold - 10%

Cash
- for now in two bank accounts for liquidity

Let me know your thoughts. I'm slowly losing my mind with all the options. :(
hi

why 20% in US?

Isn't it a Variable portfolio?

Currency risk is not good...
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by WhiteElephant » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:38 am

That seems like a very reasonable portfolio to me. Certainly ‘good enough’.
One thing you have to keep in mind is that taxation of US-based etf’s can be very different from EU-based ETF’s, especially regarding withholding taxes and estate taxes.
I didn’t want to worry about stuff like that so I decided to just use euro-based etf’s
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by stuper1 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:25 am

Vanguard LT Bonds (BLV) has a lot of non-US Treasury bonds such as corporate bonds. If you are trying to use the PP philosophy, those don't fit. For safety, a US PP only uses US Treasury bonds.
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by D.J. » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:02 pm

@frugal: I am comfortable with currency risk at 20% in USD, for the benefit of having exposure to US economy.

@WhiteElephant: If that's concerning local taxes, we have a fixed capital gains tax on everything so that does not affect me.

@stuper1: Thanks, good catch! I've changed that to iShares Treasure 20+ (TLT).

I've also added C3M (Amundi short-term bonds EUR) and SHV (iShares short treasury bonds USD) for cash allocation.
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by WhiteElephant » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:02 pm

I believe the US withholding tax is 30% of the dividend yield. This happens before you pay your local taxes. Depending on the treaties between your country and the US you might be able to get some of the 30% back.
Irish domiciled ETF’s only pay 15% withholding tax on US assets so that could be a better deal.

This article contains more information about US withholding taxes en estate taxes for non-US investors, see section ‘Domicile of funds’:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investi ... etherlands
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by D.J. » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:14 pm

Great info, I'll read that in detail. Thanks!
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by frugal » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:05 am

D.J. wrote:@frugal: I am comfortable with currency risk at 20% in USD, for the benefit of having exposure to US economy.

@WhiteElephant: If that's concerning local taxes, we have a fixed capital gains tax on everything so that does not affect me.

@stuper1: Thanks, good catch! I've changed that to iShares Treasure 20+ (TLT).

I've also added C3M (Amundi short-term bonds EUR) and SHV (iShares short treasury bonds USD) for cash allocation.
hi

what if one day 1 USD = 3 EUR ?

Do you think USPP will do better than EUPP ? Why?

Regards
D.J.
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Re: Permanent Portfolio in Europe (follow-up)

Post by D.J. » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:55 am

This is exactly done for the case if one day $1=3€. :)

As far as I saw, the long-term gains are a lot higher on USPP than on EUPP.
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