Another phase completed!

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vnatale
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Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:02 pm

Just finished a major phase in my journey to finally implement a Permanent Portfolio (classic edition).

The Permanent Portfolio may be a simple concept but a fair amount of decisions are necessary to optimize it to meet both one's personal preferences and one's unique personal financial situation.

Most of those decisions need to be made for implementation but one also needs to be aware of all the later actions that will need to be done so as to not make any implementations decisions that will conflict with those later actions.

I like to make decisions based upon information and THIS forum is THE place to be to get information on the Permanent Portfolio.

My prior phase before this one was to read as many topics as I could find that would provide this information to me. And, fairly early on I decided I'd also read topics that were of interest even though they'd be of no value in assisting me in making decisions. That was to add a fun aspect to it.

I think I spent about two months reading these topics and liberally taking notes from what I found.

I know that at my peak I had at least 10 pages of subscribed topics. And, many of those topics had pages and pages and pages of posts in themselves. Obviously it took a fair amount of hours to get through all those posts.

The result was that I ended up with an Excel worksheet that had all my "notes" from these posts -- which was basically just copying the posts of value into the worksheet.

For the last two weeks, I've gone through all those notes and got rid of a lot of the duplication (the quoting) in them and, in the process, read them all again.

I now have 8905 rows of "notes" in this worksheet.

Next step is to reread all of them again and make my decisions. Many of you have made equally compelling arguments to do something, e.g., where to put new contributions, this way or that way. I'll have to finally make choices as to which arguments are the most compelling.

I conclude with a listing of all the topics included in these notes. Sometimes I chose these topics totally unrelated to what the topic title might lead you to believe as I'm sure all of you are aware of how topics oftentimes meander to something totally unrelated to the topic title. And, this list does, of course, does not include any of the topics that were read strictly for interest purposes and unrelated to the task of acquiring information so as to make decisions.

I just reviewed the topics list (below). It certainly seems as though more that 25% of the topics are related to Gold!

On to the next step....but NOT tonight! Instead, I'm going to continue to read this book:

Lives Reclaimed: A Story of Rescue and Resistance in Nazi Germany
https://smile.amazon.com/Lives-Reclaime ... l_huc_item

Vinny

American Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf?
Re: Any downside to bars?
Any value in multiple ETFs?
An Alternative Explanation for the Permanent Portfolio
Re: Are you buying, holding, or selling the PP?
Asset locations
Re: Auto-rolling T-bills at Vanguard
Best resource for PP backtesting?
The Best Ways to Buy, Store, and Sell Precious Metals: A Comparative Analysis
Better to hold two gold funds?
Re: The Bond Dream Room
Bonds and IRAs
Bond FAQ
Bond Ladders
The Bond Purchase Question!
Buying and maintaining the LT bonds part of the PP
Buying Gold Eagles
Buying Physical Gold
Re: Calculating position returns
Re: Cash Need for Living Expenses?
Re: Dealer tricked into spending $100,000 on fake gold in NYC's Diamond District
Does Gold's Markup Bother You?
Do I not need to sell outperforming assets if I add money to pp
Don't Use USPS to Delivey Your Gold
Re: Do you insure your Gold?
Fidelity Bond and Bill Direct Purchase ?'s
Fidelity - SHV BIL or TBILL ladder (auto roll)
FNBGX vs. individual bonds at Fidelity
Geographic Diversification - Q and A Thread
Re: Gold Coin Balance Fooled by fake gold Eagle
Re: Gold coins: circulated vs new
Gold Coin Counterfeit Detectors
Gold dealers?
Gold dealers you have used?
Golden Butterfly
Golden Butterfly Portfolio
Gold Eagle Acquisition Cost and PP Rebalance Valuation?
Re: Gold ETF Fee War Gets Complicated
Re: Gold is sinking. Don't look!
Gold / Stock / Bonds at highs or near highs?
Gold taxation thoughts
Help me get over my fear of LTTs
Re: Help moving investments around in taxable accounts
Holding gold in retirement accounts
How do you invest the bond portion?
How do you invest the Cash portion?
How do you invest the gold portion?
How do you invest the stock portion?
How many brokerage firms are you using?
Re: I bond rate November 2019
Re: IAU Taxes w/Fidelity and TurboTax
I keep seeing GLD being recommended over IAU
ILT Alternatives?
Re: Im NEW and STUPID......
Insuring gold?
Investment locations?
Re: IRA Rollover into Physical Gold?
Re: Is cash really 2nd after bonds for retirement accounts?
Re: Is Gold still the currency hedge it should be?
Re: Left Fidelity
Laddering vs. not, and other questions
Large LTT purchase
Re: Left Fidelity
Re: Maximum Bond Upside
Meaning of 1-3 yr and 10-30 yr treasury ladders
Mixing Gold Coin Types, or Staying Consistent?
Most Secure Way to Reasonable Hold PP Assets??
Newbie question
New investments?
New Member and Permanent Portfolio Novice. Asking for help
Re: New to Permanent Portfolio
Re: Not Even Harry Browne Thought It Was Going To Be This Bad
Re: Oh how it hurts to see no gains
Order in which to keep assets tax sheltered
Re: % of gold asset in ETF or CEF for rebalancing purposes
Permanent Portfolio on Twitter?
Re: Perth Mint depository online data breach
Perth Mint Online Depository Program
Re: Physical Fractional vs. Full oz. Gold
Physical gold or ETF for my IRA?
Is Physical Gold Really "Necessary" to US Citizens?
Physical vs ETF
Re: Poll: What percentage of your gold is held in physical form?
Prices you bought in at?
Pushing your chips "all in" for the PP
Re: Question for Melveyr
Re: Ready to make switch but not sure where to begin...
Re: Reallocation Bands
Real Return
Re: Rebalancing
rebalancing physical
Re: Rebalancing Warning
Safe Deposit Boxes Aren’t Safe
Re: Scared to Take the PP Jump Because of Gold
Selling long term bonds to rebalance?
Six Years of Studying the HBPP And...
slightly confused about rebalancing
Re: Small cap value index: S&P 600 vs Russell 2000
Spreadsheets to Track PP
Re: Stock scream room
Re: Tax-Deferred Account Cash Position
Tax Efficiency
Re: Too Good to Be True?
Treasury Bond Basic Quetions - TreasuryDirect
Treasury Bond Buying Tutorial
Treasury Direct account security discussion at Bogleheads
Vanguard changes 3 government bond index funds and ETFs to pure Treasury indexes
Vanguard Treasury Money Market Fund (VUSXX) Questions!
vanguard vs fidelity
Re: Weighting asset allocations in tax-advantaged accounts
What brokerages are you using and why?
Re: What is your current portfolio?
Re: When you make a purchase....
Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?
Re: Where do you store your gold?
Re: Which Assets in Roth IRA?
Re: Why should I buy Treasuries now?
Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
banker22
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by banker22 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:07 am

I get that you want to become as informed as possible prior to risking your hard earned money

BUT you can read as much as you want and you still won't be able to predict the future... at some point you have to take the plunge

Why don't you start with a small slug of your net worth (say 10-20%) and put it into the PP - watching this over the next few weeks will teach you more than reading the whole forum

Good luck!
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by ppnewbie » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:33 am

My suggestion is to read:
The Permanent Portfolio: Harry Browne's Long-Term Investment Strategy - by Craig Rowland and JM Lawson (They started this forum)
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by ppnewbie » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:48 am

craigr and I think mediumtex
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vnatale
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:42 am

banker22 wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:07 am
I get that you want to become as informed as possible prior to risking your hard earned money

BUT you can read as much as you want and you still won't be able to predict the future... at some point you have to take the plunge

Why don't you start with a small slug of your net worth (say 10-20%) and put it into the PP - watching this over the next few weeks will teach you more than reading the whole forum

Good luck!
When I go in, I'm going in 100%. Just want to go in 100% in all the ways that are best for me in both the short and the long run.

It's not a matter of risk as I'm convinced it's actually far less risky than what I am currently doing (which is one of its major appeals to me).

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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vnatale
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:43 am

ppnewbie wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:33 am
My suggestion is to read:
The Permanent Portfolio: Harry Browne's Long-Term Investment Strategy - by Craig Rowland and JM Lawson (They started this forum)
Have already read it twice thoroughly plus gone back to several sections of it.

This forum has just about all that is in it plus far more.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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dualstow
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:55 am

vnatale wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:02 pm
I now have 8905 rows of "notes" in this worksheet.
I’m with banker22 above.
Vinny, you’re overthinking. Just do it.
It doesn’t matter if you buy individual 30-year-bonds or TLT.
It doesn’t matter if you buy ETF gold or coins.
It doesn’t matter if you buy t-bills or use a treasury money market.

It’s quite possible that you’re going to change your mind after you take the plunge anyway. But, since you can always sell — you’re not adopting a child here — it’s ok.
I decided I didn’t want paper gold after I bought it, and that’s ok.
If you like the pp, make one.
Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.
traveling...
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vnatale
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:40 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:55 am
vnatale wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:02 pm
I now have 8905 rows of "notes" in this worksheet.
I’m with banker22 above.
Vinny, you’re overthinking. Just do it.
It doesn’t matter if you buy individual 30-year-bonds or TLT.
It doesn’t matter if you buy ETF gold or coins.
It doesn’t matter if you buy t-bills or use a treasury money market.

It’s quite possible that you’re going to change your mind after you take the plunge anyway. But, since you can always sell — you’re not adopting a child here — it’s ok.
I decided I didn’t want paper gold after I bought it, and that’s ok.
If you like the pp, make one.
Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.
I agree with your first paragraph. Those can all be easily changed.

However, I currently have the following:

1) Non-retirement money

2) Retirement money in the form of:

a) Roth IRAs

b) Solo 401(k)

c) Self-Employed SIMPLE IRA

d) Employee SIMPLE IRA

e) SEP IRA

f) Rollover IRA

g) Traditional IRA


That is money being held in eight different ways. And, with many different tax treatments. Massachusetts does have income tax and it does not recognize certain retirement treatments that federal does, e.g. self-employed SIMPLE IRA.

My first move is to combine as many of my retirement accounts as possible into, hopefully, just three that have different tax treatments.

Then the biggest decision of all is going to be asset location - which ones best belong 1) outside retirement 2) in traditional tax sheltered 3) in Roth.

I just want to do that once and know in what forms I should be holding certain assets, e.g., gold . for retirement accounts in terms of future rebalancing. It does not seem desirable to have to be selling gold coins out of an IRA account?

From all the reading I've done here in terms of asset location, I've not seen any consensus. There is a fair amount of difference of opinion. I need to make my own. Not ready to do so.

And, overall, for me, making the switch to the Permanent Portfolio falls into the category of important but not urgent. Hopefully, I'm going to stay with it for the rest of my life. Therefore, I'm willing to put in the time to make it all go as smoothly as possible. It's my style. I don't usually have regrets or second guesses about what I chose to do.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:11 pm

Hmm, I have a), b), and g) plus taxable.

I changed my mind about asset location, too.
Bogleheads usually preach bonds in tax-deferred but, like with a lot of their advice, I’m not rich enough for it to apply to me. Newer advice suggests putting some stocks in a Roth, and I have been happy since I did that.

Cash was earning a lot more when Harry wrote his books than it is today.

I guess I’m not surprised that there’s no consensus in theory or practice.
traveling...
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vnatale
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:31 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:11 pm
Hmm, I have a), b), and g) plus taxable.

I changed my mind about asset location, too.
Bogleheads usually preach bonds in tax-deferred but, like with a lot of their advice, I’m not rich enough for it to apply to me. Newer advice suggests putting some stocks in a Roth, and I have been happy since I did that.

Cash was earning a lot more when Harry wrote his books than it is today.

I guess I’m not surprised that there’s no consensus in theory or practice.
Getting back to how I am going about this. Are you familiar with this classic book?

Thinking, Fast and Slow
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-an ... l_huc_item

One of the main premises of the book is that it is quite difficult to both Think AND Do. He advises splitting them into two separate processes.

As an accountant I end up doing a lot of repetitive tasks. I spend a fair amount of time thinking about a new one and analyzing it to figure out the most efficient way to get it done. Then after that I'm no longer thinking. I'm just executing, getting the task done. I'm not constantly switching back and forth between thinking and doing while completing the task. I just at how I've done it last time, fully trusting that I've put all the necessary thinking the last time I did it.

That is what I'm trying to achieve in this Permanent Portfolio process. I want to figure it out all through thinking so that I end up with a long to-do list of all I have to do to execute. And, once I achieve that list, there will be no thinking necessary. And, no delays in executing due to a need to think and decide. My dream is that I have that list and all I'm doing is executing as quickly as possible. And, in the future, I'll know exactly what I'll be doing with new money, when I have to rebalance, when I'm withdrawing money, and anything else related to it.

At some point this grand Permanent Portfolio thinking process will be over and I can then move my thinking focus elsewhere.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:42 pm

Somewhat familiar with the book, yes. I have the kindle version, but I didn’t finish it. It got too...slow! O0
No, I would like to get back to it.
traveling...
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:37 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:42 pm
Somewhat familiar with the book, yes. I have the kindle version, but I didn’t finish it. It got too...slow! O0
No, I would like to get back to it.
It is a L O N G book!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by ppnewbie » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:32 pm

If you wrote a book summarizing all the useful post on this forum, I would definitely buy it!
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Re: Another phase completed!

Post by Matthew19 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:49 pm

At some point this grand Permanent Portfolio thinking process will be over and I can then move my thinking focus elsewhere.

Vinny
I did the same thing - 4 months of study. several Evernote pages filled with notes.

The PP is simple to implement but takes a while to accept and grasp. once you do there's no more thinking involved. ever. I finally executed and have never been happier. Peace.
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