Investing and saving don't generally improve productivity, certainly not directly, and only under some narrow circumstances, indirectly. Except for ipo's, the stock market is virtually all a "secondary market" - money/stocks are just moving from one person to another, and none of it goes ...

Sure, that makes sense. But, I thought the idea of the cd was to improve the recipients' productivity directly, so the thought was that low income folks wouldn't just get it and spend it. Current programs like food stamps/subsidized housing do the same thing economically, right? Sort of. Food stamp...

Sure, that makes sense.

But, I thought the idea of the cd was to improve the recipients' productivity directly, so the thought was that low income folks wouldn't just get it and spend it.

Current programs like food stamps/subsidized housing do the same thing economically, right?

Investing could have a direct connection to productivity, if you invested some money directly with a company starting out, or lent people money to start a business, etc. And, savings could have a connection, if banks used deposits to generate loans - but you guys have browbeaten me plenty about how ...

'Fess up, you just want some of that "government cheese" ;D True story - an acquaintance of mine lived in NY back in the 80's, and his phone # was mistakenly printed in a NYT article as the number to call for the government cheese program. He got a lot of calls about it, and people didn't ...

I know - it was a little provocative. But, so far, that's the effect here - nobody has said they'd work more, produce more, start a business, etc. It's all been about saving, investing, retiring earlier, buying some new stuff, etc. CD would be an ideological revolution in more ways than one. We don...

As it gets more and more complicated, it loses some of that original simplification idea/benefit. I'm not sure you'd have to keep SS/Medicare, but it would be politically hard to change those. For all the people getting less SS (which might be a lot, since the median is about $14K/yr), the CD would ...

So it would turn productive people into unproductive ones, the opposite of the idea. That's not what I said. We here are already more or less productive. $15K does not seem enough of a wealth effect to induce more productivity unless you're lower class or maybe retired lower-middle class already. I...

That would be - since I've never said that or believe it in any way, it's a huge strawman. Maybe, but I thought you were the "token liberal" that almost always believes in "Big Government" -- or did I strawman that up all wrong? :D Yep, you did. You all are generally so anti-gov...

No, it's an acknowledgment that large top-down programs aren't perfect.

Ok - I looked up a few things. Apparently NM expanded Medicaid, and if you qualify for that, you can't in fact buy an ACA Marketplace plan. So PS is right about his choices. But it's important to realize that people in that income bracket aren't generally people with large investments/savings who ca...

So far, nobody has said they'd be more productive if they got a cd. They'd either improve their situation, sometimes with luxury items, invest money, quit their job, retire earlier, save more money, etc. Not one person has said they'd work more or produce more. I'd say 15K isn't enough to induce ch...

As far as "utopian" goes, I'd say that many of you are much more utopian in outlook than I am. I see the flaws in government, but also in the private sector. And, I'd like to improve both - that doesn't mean I think there are perfect solutions. As I've already said - all systems have draw...

Am I being silly not wanting to go on Medicaid? I've heard horror stories, but if it's a secret gift horse, then I'm a lot closer to FI than I thought. :P It galls me that there's no option, though. Yes, that's exactly what you should do, given that you're a well-educated, working professional with...

Am I being silly not wanting to go on Medicaid? I've heard horror stories, but if it's a secret gift horse, then I'm a lot closer to FI than I thought. :P It galls me that there's no option, though. Yes, that's exactly what you should do, given that you're a well-educated, working professional with...

If the goal is to keep people out of poverty, we'd really have to use different figures for different areas, and that makes things more complicated. Yes, its a problem, but in this age of computing power where we can track literally hundreds of different sales tax rates for every locality, its not ...

So far, nobody has said they'd be more productive if they got a cd.

They'd either improve their situation, sometimes with luxury items, invest money, quit their job, retire earlier, save more money, etc. Not one person has said they'd work more or produce more.

Why has nobody responded to my questions about WiseOne's tax/neutrality idea? I hope you at least read it - it would mean that not only aren't millionaires getting a CD, they're actually getting a net loss of income through higher taxes to fund the program.

As far as "utopian" goes, I'd say that many of you are much more utopian in outlook than I am. I see the flaws in government, but also in the private sector. And, I'd like to improve both - that doesn't mean I think there are perfect solutions. As I've already said - all systems have drawb...

Am I being silly not wanting to go on Medicaid? I've heard horror stories, but if it's a secret gift horse, then I'm a lot closer to FI than I thought. :P It galls me that there's no option, though. Yes, that's exactly what you should do, given that you're a well-educated, working professional with...

Every time I've looked at ACA plans I've found very good ones with reasonable premiums and cost-sharing stuff as well. You have to be between 100-400% of the federal poverty level, with good subsidies at the lower end of that. The "silver" plan is the best, with cost sharing as well as pr...

So this would help PS do things he could do already, but isn't doing. And, given the fact that he could easily do them now, in his own words, he doesn't need this program. He needs this program in terms of improving his living standard because the cost of spending his current savings is especially ...

The part I agree with here is that our current system is too complicated/bureaucratic, and that there are some bad incentives in it, ones that discourage what we want to encourage, and vice versa. A cd would simplify the system, for sure. But so would a mi program - just set the minimum income leve...

Actually, if the cd isn't taxed, and it eliminates/replaces SS, we'd do better with it. We could retire sooner, not have to subsidize our retirement until SS kicks in, pay the same or maybe a bit less for health care with an ACA plan (than for Medicare), and wind up with more income in retirement. I...

I understand the idea. But I just don't think it works better than a minimum income program, for one. So far, it might help you fix up your house, or quit your job. For me, it would probably have little effect and, if there were one, it might mean we'd just retire sooner (assuming the ACA is still a...