Search found 817 matches

by jafs
Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:55 am
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

Investing and saving don't generally improve productivity, certainly not directly, and only under some narrow circumstances, indirectly. Except for ipo's, the stock market is virtually all a "secondary market" - money/stocks are just moving from one person to another, and none of it goes to the com...
by jafs
Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:51 am
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

Sure, that makes sense. But, I thought the idea of the cd was to improve the recipients' productivity directly, so the thought was that low income folks wouldn't just get it and spend it. Current programs like food stamps/subsidized housing do the same thing economically, right? Sort of. Food stamp...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:42 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

Sure, that makes sense.

But, I thought the idea of the cd was to improve the recipients' productivity directly, so the thought was that low income folks wouldn't just get it and spend it.

Current programs like food stamps/subsidized housing do the same thing economically, right?
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:01 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

Investing could have a direct connection to productivity, if you invested some money directly with a company starting out, or lent people money to start a business, etc. And, savings could have a connection, if banks used deposits to generate loans - but you guys have browbeaten me plenty about how ...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:51 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

'Fess up, you just want some of that "government cheese" ;D True story - an acquaintance of mine lived in NY back in the 80's, and his phone # was mistakenly printed in a NYT article as the number to call for the government cheese program. He got a lot of calls about it, and people didn't believe it...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:44 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

I know - it was a little provocative. But, so far, that's the effect here - nobody has said they'd work more, produce more, start a business, etc. It's all been about saving, investing, retiring earlier, buying some new stuff, etc. CD would be an ideological revolution in more ways than one. We don...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:09 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

As it gets more and more complicated, it loses some of that original simplification idea/benefit. I'm not sure you'd have to keep SS/Medicare, but it would be politically hard to change those. For all the people getting less SS (which might be a lot, since the median is about $14K/yr), the CD would ...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:04 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

So it would turn productive people into unproductive ones, the opposite of the idea. That's not what I said. We here are already more or less productive. $15K does not seem enough of a wealth effect to induce more productivity unless you're lower class or maybe retired lower-middle class already. I...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:01 pm
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

That would be - since I've never said that or believe it in any way, it's a huge strawman. Maybe, but I thought you were the "token liberal" that almost always believes in "Big Government" -- or did I strawman that up all wrong? :D Yep, you did. You all are generally so anti-government that somebod...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:10 am
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

No, it's an acknowledgment that large top-down programs aren't perfect.
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:17 am
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

Ok - I looked up a few things. Apparently NM expanded Medicaid, and if you qualify for that, you can't in fact buy an ACA Marketplace plan. So PS is right about his choices. But it's important to realize that people in that income bracket aren't generally people with large investments/savings who ca...
by jafs
Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:33 am
Forum: Other Discussions
Topic: Citizen's Dividend
Replies: 179
Views: 29054

Re: Citizen's Dividend

So far, nobody has said they'd be more productive if they got a cd. They'd either improve their situation, sometimes with luxury items, invest money, quit their job, retire earlier, save more money, etc. Not one person has said they'd work more or produce more. I'd say 15K isn't enough to induce ch...